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Lasers, do they suck ****? Are they in the same category as blasters before their buff?
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Mfume Apocal
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#121 - 2012-04-22 01:08:24 UTC
Jorma Morkkis wrote:
Ever tried to kill Guristas/Angels with lasers?


Yes. It's pretty bad, but not so bad you'll be left penniless.
Jorma Morkkis
State War Academy
Caldari State
#122 - 2012-04-22 06:16:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Jorma Morkkis
Mfume Apocal wrote:
Yes. It's pretty bad, but not so bad you'll be left penniless.


Unlike you I prefer killing NPCs fast and move to next mission/site. Not even mentioning that there is only two laser boats with effective range to kill Guristas @100km.

So let me ask same question again:
Ever tried to kill Sanshas/Bloods with Scourge Fury?
Dato Koppla
Spaghetti Militia
#123 - 2012-04-22 10:17:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Dato Koppla
Jorma Morkkis wrote:
Mfume Apocal wrote:
Yes. It's pretty bad, but not so bad you'll be left penniless.


Unlike you I prefer killing NPCs fast and move to next mission/site. Not even mentioning that there is only two laser boats with effective range to kill Guristas @100km.

So let me ask same question again:
Ever tried to kill Sanshas/Bloods with Scourge Fury?


I normally switch to Mjolnir Fury....but you go ahead with that scourge fury.

Also to the guy who said that a Binger can outbrawl a Cane, that isn't true, the Binger has fitting issues.
Sunviking
Doomheim
#124 - 2012-04-22 11:01:06 UTC
I think the 3 of the main strengths of Lasers are:

1) EM/Thermal damage being able to punch through the shield resist hole of most ships.

2) Best Medium-Range Turret damage (I think).

3) Great Short and Long Range capability of Tachyon Beams - very flexible.
Sunviking
Doomheim
#125 - 2012-04-22 11:02:26 UTC
Dato Koppla wrote:
Jorma Morkkis wrote:
Mfume Apocal wrote:
Yes. It's pretty bad, but not so bad you'll be left penniless.


Unlike you I prefer killing NPCs fast and move to next mission/site. Not even mentioning that there is only two laser boats with effective range to kill Guristas @100km.

So let me ask same question again:
Ever tried to kill Sanshas/Bloods with Scourge Fury?


I normally switch to Mjolnir Fury....but you go ahead with that scourge fury.

Also to the guy who said that a Binger can outbrawl a Cane, that isn't true, the Binger has fitting issues.


Also, a Cane can fit 2 HAM Launchers in its utility highs, so it has fantastic DPS options.
Jorma Morkkis
State War Academy
Caldari State
#126 - 2012-04-22 11:12:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Jorma Morkkis
Dato Koppla wrote:
I normally switch to Mjolnir Fury....but you go ahead with that scourge fury.


And you managed to miss my point. Gratz.

Sunviking wrote:
1) EM/Thermal damage being able to punch through the shield resist hole of most ships.


Doesn't really help when people know how good lasers are at range. They are going to plug that resist hole.
FT Diomedes
The Graduates
#127 - 2012-04-22 11:59:36 UTC
Even with an EM hardener, most ships still end up with a significant weakness to EM/Thermal damage (with the obvious exception of T2 Minmatar ships). And... if lasers really sucked so hard, no one would be afraid of them and try to fill the resist hole.

I'm really in shock that this thread has gone on for 7 freakin' pages.

CCP should add more NPC 0.0 space to open it up and liven things up: the Stepping Stones project.

Dato Koppla
Spaghetti Militia
#128 - 2012-04-22 12:13:11 UTC
FT Diomedes wrote:
Even with an EM hardener, most ships still end up with a significant weakness to EM/Thermal damage (with the obvious exception of T2 Minmatar ships). And... if lasers really sucked so hard, no one would be afraid of them and try to fill the resist hole.

I'm really in shock that this thread has gone on for 7 freakin' pages.


Yeap, everyone plugs their EM hole ONLY because of lazorz and not because of EMP/EM missiles.
FT Diomedes
The Graduates
#129 - 2012-04-22 12:18:12 UTC
Dato Koppla wrote:
FT Diomedes wrote:
Even with an EM hardener, most ships still end up with a significant weakness to EM/Thermal damage (with the obvious exception of T2 Minmatar ships). And... if lasers really sucked so hard, no one would be afraid of them and try to fill the resist hole.

I'm really in shock that this thread has gone on for 7 freakin' pages.


Yeap, everyone plugs their EM hole ONLY because of lazorz and not because of EMP/EM missiles.


Why would anyone fire EM missiles in PvP? The only good commonly-encountered missile boats currently have bonuses only to Kinetic missiles.

And sure, Minmatar pilots could choose to fire EMP, but they have equally good choices in PP and Fusion. So, it's not that universal. People fill the EM resist hole because if you don't, then lasers will totally BBQ you.

CCP should add more NPC 0.0 space to open it up and liven things up: the Stepping Stones project.

Jorma Morkkis
State War Academy
Caldari State
#130 - 2012-04-22 14:21:19 UTC
FT Diomedes wrote:
Why would anyone fire EM missiles in PvP? The only good commonly-encountered missile boats currently have bonuses only to Kinetic missiles.


Confirming all stealth bombers have bonus to kinetic missile damage.
FT Diomedes
The Graduates
#131 - 2012-04-22 15:52:28 UTC
Jorma Morkkis wrote:
FT Diomedes wrote:
Why would anyone fire EM missiles in PvP? The only good commonly-encountered missile boats currently have bonuses only to Kinetic missiles.


Confirming all stealth bombers have bonus to kinetic missile damage.


Fair enough. I forgot about the lovely Purifier.

CCP should add more NPC 0.0 space to open it up and liven things up: the Stepping Stones project.

Voith
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#132 - 2012-04-22 15:58:47 UTC
Also, filling the EM Resist has a **** load to do with EMP being the highest damage Projectile.


Lasers suck because Projectiles are OP. They just need to remove .25 damage mod from projectiles to fix it.
FT Diomedes
The Graduates
#133 - 2012-04-22 16:00:04 UTC
Voith wrote:
Also, filling the EM Resist has a **** load to do with EMP being the highest damage Projectile.


Lasers suck because Projectiles are OP. They just need to remove .25 damage mod from projectiles to fix it.


EMP is not the highest damage projectile. For T1 or faction ammo, it is the same damage modifier as Fusion or Phased Plasma.

CCP should add more NPC 0.0 space to open it up and liven things up: the Stepping Stones project.

Jorma Morkkis
State War Academy
Caldari State
#134 - 2012-04-22 16:18:13 UTC
Looks like it's time for two facts:
- Heavy Pulses don't track well if dual TD'd.
- You can't use your weapons without capacitor.
FT Diomedes
The Graduates
#135 - 2012-04-22 17:02:03 UTC
Jorma Morkkis wrote:
Looks like it's time for two facts:
- Heavy Pulses don't track well if dual TD'd.
- You can't use your weapons without capacitor.


The first is true of any turret weapon (and apparently soon to be missiles as well). The second is also true of Hybrid weapons.

CCP should add more NPC 0.0 space to open it up and liven things up: the Stepping Stones project.

Jorma Morkkis
State War Academy
Caldari State
#136 - 2012-04-22 17:08:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Jorma Morkkis
FT Diomedes wrote:
Jorma Morkkis wrote:
Looks like it's time for two facts:
- Heavy Pulses don't track well if dual TD'd.
- You can't use your weapons without capacitor.


The first is true of any turret weapon (and apparently soon to be missiles as well). The second is also true of Hybrid weapons.


Blasters and machine guns can still track frigates even under TDs. And machine guns can still keep delivering their superior dps even without capacitor.
SidtheKid100
Wilderness
IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII
#137 - 2012-04-22 19:04:38 UTC  |  Edited by: SidtheKid100
Don't some of the gunnery certificates claim that lasers have "good tracking" while projectile turrets are "inaccurate"?
I think that's what irks me the most.
I mean, lasers have huge cap requirements, they're locked into 2 dmg types unlike projectiles, and they don't have the overpowering dps of hybrids. Can't they at least get the best tracking?

I don't always post on the forums, but when I do, I prefer posting with my main.
Xhiad
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#138 - 2012-04-22 21:31:53 UTC
Training up for Scorch, and I looked at a few things... (using medium on a Harby)

Having an 18/4 EM/Therm damage ratio seems... wrong? Considering EM is the highest resist on almost every armour tank (t2 minni ships START with 92%), it just seems that unless there's a way to shift around damage types - they're getting the short end of the stick.

As per the benefit: +50% range is pretty nice, but is it worth the 700k isk/crystal? I MWD within multifreq range and just burn faces off regardless.

I run 7 Med Pulse,
1 MWD, Web, Scram, Cap Booster
1600mm, EANM, DC II, Kin hardener, Heatsink, Armor Rep2

Changes, thoughts?
-X
FT Diomedes
The Graduates
#139 - 2012-04-22 21:45:31 UTC
Scorch is worth every penny.

CCP should add more NPC 0.0 space to open it up and liven things up: the Stepping Stones project.

Dato Koppla
Spaghetti Militia
#140 - 2012-04-22 22:48:29 UTC
Xhiad wrote:
Training up for Scorch, and I looked at a few things... (using medium on a Harby)

Having an 18/4 EM/Therm damage ratio seems... wrong? Considering EM is the highest resist on almost every armour tank (t2 minni ships START with 92%), it just seems that unless there's a way to shift around damage types - they're getting the short end of the stick.

As per the benefit: +50% range is pretty nice, but is it worth the 700k isk/crystal? I MWD within multifreq range and just burn faces off regardless.

I run 7 Med Pulse,
1 MWD, Web, Scram, Cap Booster
1600mm, EANM, DC II, Kin hardener, Heatsink, Armor Rep2

Changes, thoughts?
-X



Harb has fitting problems, a Cane can fit, a 1600mm plate, 425s, medium neut, dual web (cause it doesn't need a cap booster), 2 gyros and it'll have better everything (speed, dps, tracking, ability to neut, resistance to neuts from capless weapons, another web so better range control) and 2k less EHP and slightly worse damage projection