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Materials about false acusations people do against my reputation
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Vechtor
Doomheim
#1 - 2012-04-14 11:58:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Vechtor
Some people claim I’m untrustworthy, based on something that happened without being correctly exposed. Fact is, that it all started when I, once again, replied after one of Mr. Saxon Hawke’s writings here at the IGS, criticizing him because what he speaks not always match what ILF did or does. I never intended to hide the fact that I think Mr. Hawke a bad leader, because he is the type of leader who likes to command without putting his hands on the job. Also, because after working with him for months I could barely see him in charge of anything, but when I proposed to be in charge of something that I thought it would be good for ILF, he simply denied it, stating ILF “wasn’t a military organization, but a political one”.

It seems people don’t like to have other people criticizing Mr. Hawke around here like he is a saint or something, and mix things, fighting back with words that sometimes aren’t applicable. This happened when Mr. Eionell replied with the following statement:

Sakaane Eionell wrote:
“You and I don't know each other, as you left the ILF's ranks before I joined them. But I have heard of you. Here is your legacy: When you were with the ILF, you earned the trust and respect of many of your fellow pilots. After your departure you were spoken of in high regard and your contributions during that time were remembered fondly. In my presence your former friends and allies had expressed regret that you left and even, then, that they missed you! But what happened? One day not long ago you decided to spit venom on those same people and declared ILF an enemy. In doing so you betrayed their trust and respect. Now you come here whining about not receiving "FULL recognition" for the things you have done? Congratulations, you have our attention now. Your legacy is disgraced, stained and poisoned and we return your sentiment to hunt us down with our own promise to defend ourselves with lethal force if we should ever have occasion to meet. “


Ms. Eionell is free to say whatever she wants, but what draw my attention is that she took into account the fact that I would have threaten ILF of destruction since my departure from I-RED (and Intaki).
The only way for Ms. Eionell to know something I would have said privately to someone (yes, I’ve never made such threats public to anyone inside I-RED or ILF nor have ANY ILF kills in my records) was if someone inside KISEC, the Corporation I was part by that time, had relayed them part or whole communications I had with KISEC leadership prior to my departure. But before I make public what I said to KISEC prior to my departure, let’s explain something.

KISEC had, by then, on both occasions, asked its members what they were thinking about flying with I-RED. I for once always replied that I-RED wasn’t good for Intaki best interests and that KISEC would be filling a better role if flying for FDU. In my opinion, I-RED was never well aligned with the concept of peace and prosperity for Intaki, although I-RED tried very hard to apply anti-piracy politics in Intaki, achieving some level of success. Fighting DAXUS-AG, still, has never been the case and I-RED actually failed trying to bash one of their POS’ in Brarel. I-RED also brought war to Intaki by fighting STPRO forces with complete disregard to CONCORD laws, dragging ILF to a war they could barely fight. As time passed, I’ve become completely unsatisfied with everything and didn’t hide that, from Sanya, my CEO, the fact that the best thing for us, in my opinion, was to leave I-RED. By knowing this, Sanya asked to open private communication channels with me and we started the following conversation:

[ 2011.11.12 00:39:31 ] Sanya > I`m keeping Zarius out of this because he talks. And apparantly, so do I with as little sleep as I`Ve had today...
[ 2011.11.12 00:39:59 ] Sanya > The fewer people I bring into this the better.
[ 2011.11.12 00:40:45 ] Sanya > I suspect you don`t have access to ILFs internal forums. By chance, I do.
[ 2011.11.12 00:41:01 ] Vechtor > k
[ 2011.11.12 00:41:08 ] Sanya > With good reason, I have suggested to John a declaration of war on the ILF.
[ 2011.11.12 00:41:43 ] Sanya > Based around "sovereignity" of the Intaki system, centered around the customs offices.
[ 2011.11.12 00:43:19 ] Vechtor > k
[ 2011.11.12 00:43:28 ] Sanya > Given Ishukone owning the development rights. ILF has little to no affection towards us.
[ 2011.11.12 00:43:39 ] Vechtor > Thats true
[ 2011.11.12 00:43:47 ] Sanya > The only reason we have blue standings now is so we don`t shoot each others.
[ 2011.11.12 00:44:45 ] Vechtor > ok
[ 2011.11.12 00:45:42 ] Sanya > Because two of my directors and two of our new members till have friends in the ILF, I can`t really discuss this, because it becomes a conflict of interest.
[ 2011.11.12 00:46:16 ] Sanya > So before any decision is even made to do this as few people as possible need to know.
[ 2011.11.12 00:46:28 ] Sanya > In case no war will happen, little harm is done.
[ 2011.11.12 00:47:51 ] Sanya > I hope you see my issue here. Half of KISEC having one foot in the ILF, its making it difficult to go out and say "How would you feel about an ILF wardec?"
[ 2011.11.12 00:48:49 ] Vechtor > How would you feel if I GCC an ILF? =p
[ 2011.11.12 00:49:05 ] Sanya > We need them to strike the first blow.
[ 2011.11.12 00:50:12 ] Sanya > Be it public speech or attack.
[ 2011.11.12 00:51:01 ] Sanya > Its an enormous event in terms of PR, and may have a great impact on KISEC.
[ 2011.11.12 00:55:05 ] Vechtor > but do you think there is a chance of ILF doing the first move?
[ 2011.11.12 00:55:36 ] Sanya > Saxon`s been very aggressive lately.
Vechtor
Doomheim
#2 - 2012-04-14 11:59:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Vechtor
Ok.
Short time later, I decided to leave KISEC. When I left, I’ve sent them a message stating everything with logic about the conclusions I’ve come and why I was leaving, but I wanted to push them hard when this would happen, so I’ve made the following threat TO KISEC ONLY, IN KISEC OWN COMMS:
“
(…text about departure…)

But this leaving is not that simple and these are the terms of how it is going to happen.
Starting from today, November 14th, 113, I have a new enemy. This enemy is a corporation, and an alliance, that is blue to I-RED. The alliance is called Intaki Prosperity Initiative and the corporation is called Intaki Liberation Front. In the next 30 days, I'll hunt them down and try to wreck havoc on their navy, "sinking" their cruisers and battle cruisers until my own destruction or what I consider might be a success.
KISEC, then, has two options.
KISEC can let time flow and see what happens, by waiting to see if I succeed on what I'm trying to accomplish and turning me "red" or KISEC can, right away, and to avoid further political complication, remove all my roles and expel me from its ranks within the next 24 hours.
Whatever you decide will have my major respect.
Vechtor”

Sanya’s reply was as follows:

“Allegiances rise and fall. Blues become enemies, enemies becomes neutrals. That is the way of politics in this universe, and if any blues of ours would be set red, it will be done properly, not for someone to prove a point.
As harsh as I may sound, I want you to see why I can`t let you. But I will promise you this; KISEC will change for the better because of this, and I hope that will be a comfort for all of us.
Sincerely,
Sanya”

And my LAST reply was this:

“Fair enough. As I said before I give respect for whatever decision. With you choosing for the second one, I have nothing left to do here...already moved out of Intaki the last two ships I had there (Cane and Phoon) and I'm ready to go.

As a final wish, and gesture of trust by your part, I would like to request an hour or so after the stasis period is over so I can join DuPont's directly without having to pass through another corporation.
Thank you,
Vechtor”

Sanya attended my requests and I joined DUPO. I NEVER whatsoever had ANY ILF kills in my records and the whole thing never went out of KISEC environment, being dealt perfectly by KISEC leadership. Until that day.

Returning to that point above: the only way Ms. Eionell would know I have made this message inside KISEC trying to explore its coherence or deficiencies is if someone made ILF aware of what I’ve said even AFTER I have left Intaki in peace without harming anyone, even AFTER the original idea of declaring war against ILF wasn’t even mine!!!

This is the reputation people are talking about when they make false accusations against me here in the IGS. Even if I have millions of replies saying that I am untrustworthy, I really don’t care, because I’ve made public the real thing showing that I’ve never been the real person “spitting venom” in Intaki. Because when I wasn’t working for KISEC and stating to KISEC my opinions, I happened to be just following their terms.
Kalaratiri
Full Broadside
Deepwater Hooligans
#3 - 2012-04-14 15:28:23 UTC
I wouldn't worry about your reputation. I have literally never heard of you.

She's mad but she's magic, there's no lie in her fire.

This is possibly one of the worst threads in the history of these forums.  - CCP Falcon

I don't remember when last time you said something that wasn't either dumb or absurd. - Diana Kim
Ava Starfire
Khushakor Clan
#4 - 2012-04-14 15:34:04 UTC
Kala said it.

"There is no strength in numbers; have no such misconception." -Jayka Vofur, "Warfare in the North"
Medarr
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#5 - 2012-04-14 15:37:37 UTC
Who? and what rep?
John Revenent
Revenent Defence Corperation
Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
#6 - 2012-04-14 16:46:28 UTC
So to prove you are trustworthy you decide to release 5 month old "Private" logs about a situation that had been defused & dealt with upon your own departure?

Hrm..

Ishukone Loyalist - Private Contractor

"Holding on to anger is like grasping a hot coal with the intent of throwing it at someone else; you are the one who gets burned."
Katrina Oniseki
Oniseki-Raata Internal Watch
Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
#7 - 2012-04-14 17:09:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Katrina Oniseki
Actually, no, this isn't at all what I was talking about Vechtor. Good job sticking your foot in your mouth though.

Again.

Katrina Oniseki
Link Joker
Goto Manufacturing
#8 - 2012-04-14 18:00:43 UTC
Well, one assumes this will put a domesticated feline amidst the avian vermin.

With all respect due to Pilot Vechtor, I would like to know what, if anything, stopped you from simply packing up and heading to another part of the frontier? Space is almost as vast as the cliche's will have it.

Non-the-less, I think this lengthy diatribe has a purpose, even if said purpose is to slash at old wounds for the sake of still-wounded pride on all fronts.

As an outsider to the conflict, I would hope that mediation to your troubles is still an option... or you can follow your stated intention and raid shipping.
Vechtor
Doomheim
#9 - 2012-04-14 18:09:50 UTC
Link Joker wrote:
Well, one assumes this will put a domesticated feline amidst the avian vermin.

With all respect due to Pilot Vechtor, I would like to know what, if anything, stopped you from simply packing up and heading to another part of the frontier? Space is almost as vast as the cliche's will have it.


Thank you for your reply. In fact, I did what you told me to do. I moved to J130026, far from all this mess. But the mess keeps following me, everytime I happen to disagree with something some people post here in IGS.
Vechtor
Doomheim
#10 - 2012-04-14 18:12:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Vechtor
John Revenent wrote:
So to prove you are trustworthy you decide to release 5 month old "Private" logs about a situation that had been defused & dealt with upon your own departure?

Hrm..



This is far from being dealt or defused John. With all due respect I have to you: people bellow your ranks still have the habit of comming here and putting in doubt my reputation based, precisely, on those "5 month old" private logs that shoudn't go to ILFs hands but did, hidding the truth behind them...

You should be the first one letting the public know that I have never been a threat to anyone in ILF or I-RED, nor wanted to, and all this **** KISEC created after my departure.

Thank you for your time reading tho, John.
John Revenent
Revenent Defence Corperation
Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
#11 - 2012-04-14 20:47:15 UTC
Vechtor wrote:
John Revenent wrote:
So to prove you are trustworthy you decide to release 5 month old "Private" logs about a situation that had been defused & dealt with upon your own departure?

Hrm..



This is far from being dealt or defused John. With all due respect I have to you: people bellow your ranks still have the habit of comming here and putting in doubt my reputation based, precisely, on those "5 month old" private logs that shoudn't go to ILFs hands but did, hidding the truth behind them...

You should be the first one letting the public know that I have never been a threat to anyone in ILF or I-RED, nor wanted to, and all this **** KISEC created after my departure.

Thank you for your time reading tho, John.


Yes this issue between Ishukone-Raata and the ILF that you have brought to the attention of the IGS community has been dealt with 5 months ago. The conflict of interest that Ishukone-Raata and the ILF had was in the end a miss-communication. Both parties sat down to overcome this problem to ensure that we could remain trade partners.

I have never viewed you as a threat, a friend at one time yes.. though now I am unsure.

Ishukone Loyalist - Private Contractor

"Holding on to anger is like grasping a hot coal with the intent of throwing it at someone else; you are the one who gets burned."
Sanya
Alexylva Paradox
#12 - 2012-04-14 21:07:36 UTC
We didn't create anything after your departure. All this you're referring to, is your doing

We warned ILF that you might attack their ships while under corporate stasis before leaving KISEC, ensuring them that should you take such actions, they were not representing KISEC.

This should be all in the past, and if someone keeps bringing it up, they should let the past be the past and forget about it. I honestly don't see how this keeps following you. But it almost seems like you want to bring it back up.

You're not a bad person, Vechtor, but it seems like you deliberately try to create drama and fuss. Right now, for example, you say you were never a threat to I-RED or ILF, yet you refer to logs where you ask me if I would mind if you would GCC them, and stating the ILF and the IPI is now an enemy of yours.

Again and again, you try painting yourself with pastels by painting others black, and it just doesn't seem to be doing you any favors.

KISEC has dealt with this with ILF with a peaceful result. I don't see how anyone else should be affected by this. You are an irrelevant person to most, no more and no less than I am.

Our enemies already want to shoot us, and our allies are allies for reasons other than those affected by personnel issues.

If someone would run at me with a pamphlet and shout "I'm not a bad person!" I would have the same reactions as the first responders to this thread.

.
Marrano Cardosa
Revenent Defence Corperation
Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
#13 - 2012-04-14 21:10:22 UTC
So let me get this straight, when KISEC wouldn't let you attack ships of a corp/alliance that was blue to KISEC (and IRED as well), you left KISEC. You admit to being disgruntled about the situation in Intaki and based on nothing other than a comment from an ILF member (after your own admission being very critical of an ILF leader) that you had declared ILF an enemy, you then posit that it MUST be because information you shared with Sanya (KISEC CEO) or with the whole corp was leaked to the ILF?

Is it not more likely that your general hostile tone to ILF leaders and of the posts you made on IGS are behind this fairly vague accusation?

And is leaking some speculative discussions that occured during a time of tensions really the way to prove that you really ARE trust worthy? Especailly when no attack of any kind much less war decs happened? And when YOU were prohibited from implementing YOUR plan to attack the ILF?
Vechtor
Doomheim
#14 - 2012-04-14 22:00:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Vechtor
Marrano Cardosa wrote:
So let me get this straight, when KISEC wouldn't let you attack ships of a corp/alliance that was blue to KISEC (and IRED as well), you left KISEC.


No, you don't get it.
This was Sanya's idea. You just have to read the NEOCOMM's transcript I placed above. I'm being accused of trying to threat ILF AFTER that thing, something that never took place as I was just testing KISEC's integrity.

Reading is all you have to do and please, stop accusing me of something I didn't, placing my reputation at stake for something that was never meant o leave KISEC's boundaries. Shame Sanya didn't conduct this thing correctly by keeping in secret my talks to KISEC prior to my departure.

Marrano Cardosa wrote:
Is it not more likely that your general hostile tone to ILF leaders and of the posts you made on IGS are behind this fairly vague accusation?


Not leaders. Leader. Saxon Hawke.
If Ms. Eionel didn't reply on that 5 month old thread stating I've spit venom on ILF because of something that wasn't even an original idea of mine, also proving that things that should be kept inside KISEC was delivered to them following "weird" intentions, none of this would have happened. Common guys, it was me... someone's past doesn't count for anything on those situations?

You guys got to learn that Saxon is capable to reply by himself shall he wants to. I-RED's interference on this matter never had any purpose and still doesn't.
Kalaratiri
Full Broadside
Deepwater Hooligans
#15 - 2012-04-14 22:06:34 UTC
I'm sorry, I still have no idea who you are.

She's mad but she's magic, there's no lie in her fire.

This is possibly one of the worst threads in the history of these forums.  - CCP Falcon

I don't remember when last time you said something that wasn't either dumb or absurd. - Diana Kim
Vechtor
Doomheim
#16 - 2012-04-14 22:09:06 UTC
Kalaratiri wrote:
I'm sorry, I still have no idea who you are.


We are just ordinary people trying to correct other ordinary people's mistakes...
Jandice Ymladris
Aurora Arcology
#17 - 2012-04-14 22:11:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Jandice Ymladris
I believe broadcasting this has damaged your rep even more Vechor. From most important involved parties this seems to be a thing in the past.
Yes some people will hold a grudge to you, that's unavoidable when you leave a corporation, you have to accept that. But by this broadcast of yours, you effectivly told everyone it's still an issue, probably stirring up old wounds.

A last thing, something you should heed well: anything you say can and will be used against you when the opportunity arises, for in love & war, everything's justified.
So if you told a corp something in private, you can bet your life's wage on it, someone's going to blab about it just to score browniepoints with someone else!

Providing a new home for refugees in the Aurora Arcology
Vechtor
Doomheim
#18 - 2012-04-14 22:14:22 UTC
Jandice Ymladris wrote:

A last thing, something you should heed well: anything you say can and will be used against you when the opportunity arises, for in love & war, everything's justified.


Coudn't say any better.
I felt having no other choice as having your integrity put to test everytime you post something in IGS because of other people's mistakes is not pleasing...
Vechtor
Doomheim
#19 - 2012-04-14 22:56:18 UTC
John Revenent wrote:

Yes this issue between Ishukone-Raata and the ILF that you have brought to the attention of the IGS community has been dealt with 5 months ago. The conflict of interest that Ishukone-Raata and the ILF had was in the end a miss-communication. Both parties sat down to overcome this problem to ensure that we could remain trade partners.


I see. You only forgot to return here then, and let everyone know that this misunderstanding was indeed a misunderstanding, and that I shouldn't be accused of "spitting venom" in ILF.
Uraniae Fehrnah
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#20 - 2012-04-15 09:18:07 UTC
I try to keep my nose out of the whole mess between the State and the Federation, and by extension the even more complicated mess around Intaki itself but I'm going to try and make some sense of this.

You said some things. These things you said reflected back upon your reputation. That reflection was not what you had intended yet all the same it happened. Now you come here to plead your case and act the victim...of what? Your own words?

Carry the weight of your words and actions with some dignity, even if the results aren't what you had hoped. If you find your tongue gets you into more trouble than you'd like, keep it still. If that isn't an option I'll simply point out something about reputation in general. It's only worth a damn, for good or ill, if you let it be worth a damn.
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