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ISK-making for new players
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Deviate Sin
The Byzantine Empire
#1 - 2012-04-11 16:27:08 UTC
I know a lot of newer players seem to always be in need of more ISK for their next ship, or fitting, and thought I would post up a reminder of one of the easiest, least skill-intensive ways to make good ISK that people often forget about. Salvaging.

If you decide to go it alone, you will need to find a mission runner, or multiple mission runners who don't do their own salvage, and wouldn't mind letting you salvage for them. This can be decent money, but due to having to spend the time finding your own mission runners to work with, it can take a while to get set up.

Without sounding like a shameless recruiting post (which this is not), there's also at least 1 corp if not more that focus specifically on putting mission runners and salvagers together. Quite simply, the mission runners contract the corp mission bookmarks in their office station, salvagers from said corp accept the (free) contracts and salvage the mission. This is beneficial to mission runners too, as it frees them up to do more missions while still making ISK from salvage. At the end of the week, the corp sells/refines loot, then pays both the mission runner and the salvager roughly half based on how many missions they've worked. This is highly profitable to all parties involved, and for those unaware, training to fly a Noctis salvager ship with fittings takes less than a day. When I say highly profitable, it's not uncommon for rookie salvagers to make around 1 billion ISK a week.

Once again, this isn't a recruiting thread, and there may be multiple corps out there doing this by now, I simply wanted to make sure new EVE pilots were aware of the potential of salvaging to be a great way to start building your fortune in EVE. If you have any questions about salvaging in general, you can ask them in channels "Free Wrecks" or "Pro Synergy". Lots of friendly, helpful people there who don't mind answering questions.
SabotNoob
Doomheim
#2 - 2012-04-11 16:53:48 UTC
Deviate Sin, any chance you guys are willing to expand to Penirgman (it's two jumps away from Amarr)? I'm a Level 4 mission runner and I always leave my wrecks behind. I am kind of tied down in that system (which has a Level 4 agent) so I can't come and mission in the systems you guys contract salvage in. I'm looking for a noob or two to take my Level 4 wreck fields for a small fee, or do business with your corp if you guys can expand a little?
Deviate Sin
The Byzantine Empire
#3 - 2012-04-11 17:10:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Deviate Sin
SabotNoob wrote:
Deviate Sin, any chance you guys are willing to expand to Penirgman (it's two jumps away from Amarr)? I'm a Level 4 mission runner and I always leave my wrecks behind. I am kind of tied down in that system (which has a Level 4 agent) so I can't come and mission in the systems you guys contract salvage in. I'm looking for a noob or two to take my Level 4 wreck fields for a small fee, or do business with your corp if you guys can expand a little?


I know there have been other requests in that area, and I know that new offices are being planned as we speak. My suggestion would be to hang out in Pro Synergy or Free Wrecks channels to follow the status of those new offices. Besides, the conversation there can be quite interesting while you wait ;)

Update: Market testing currently being performed in your area, specifically Sasoutikh. Be on the lookout for floating advertising cans, and an office soon.
Lyron-Baktos
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#4 - 2012-04-11 17:19:33 UTC
by salvaging, do you mean going up to a wreck and using the salvage mod to get the metal scraps? If so, what kind of isk can you make an hour from this?

I've salvaged a few of my wrecks this way to see what it was like and it's pretty boring work
Kahega Amielden
Rifterlings
#5 - 2012-04-11 17:20:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Kahega Amielden
Quote:
When I say highly profitable, it's not uncommon for rookie salvagers to make around 1 billion ISK a week.


A note to people enticed by this number: This is highly dependent on the faction of rats you are salvaging. Additionally, if we assume you make 20 mil ISK per hour salvaging (assumes good rats, you salvage and loot quickly, and the OP's group does not take too much of the profit), 1 billion a week would require you spend 50 hours (e.g. more time than you spend at your job) just salvaging.


That said, while the figure quoted in the OP is straight bullshit unless you have way too much free time or extreme luck, this -is- a very good way for newbies to make money. Additionally, if you have scanning skills, you can scan down missionrunners and loot/salvage without having to split the profits (but this does of course require you spend time scanning and by extension training the requisite skills). This is ninja salvaging. It's also a ton more exciting.


Quote:
by salvaging, do you mean going up to a wreck and using the salvage mod to get the metal scraps? If so, what kind of isk can you make an hour from this?

I've salvaged a few of my wrecks this way to see what it was like and it's pretty boring work


Presumably it would include both this and looting.

Quote:
This is highly profitable to all parties involved, and for those unaware, training to fly a Noctis salvager ship with fittings takes less than a day


uhhuh. And the newbies you're targeting are going to be able to buy the 90 mil hull ?
SabotNoob
Doomheim
#6 - 2012-04-11 17:34:39 UTC
Lyron-Baktos wrote:
by salvaging, do you mean going up to a wreck and using the salvage mod to get the metal scraps? If so, what kind of isk can you make an hour from this?

I've salvaged a few of my wrecks this way to see what it was like and it's pretty boring work


I heard that the average Level 4 mission wreck field generates around 4.4 million ISK, more or less. You are not just getting the scraps, but also the contents of the wrecks (mods and stuff). You can get them without any danger if the mission runner abandons the wreck (which I do). Abandoning it turns it blue.

It is boring, if you fly up to a wreck to salvage it. It is MUCH MUCH MORE efficient and less time consuming if you use a Noctis and tractor in multiple wrecks at a time and salvage them at once. With proper skills, you can tractor wrecks around 60+km out, so you don't need to fly to them at all.

A typical Noctis fit looks like this:

Highs:
4 x Small Tractor Beam
4 x Salvager

Mids and Lows to taste (cargo expanders to hold more stuff that you salvage, etc.). With 4 tractors, you can tractor in 4 wrecks at the same time. Once they are within salvage range, you salvage them with your 4 salvagers. Then you target 4 more wrecks to tractor in. You'll get the hang of it. Eventually, you can salvage an entire Level 4 wreck field in less than 5 minutes, and bank a few million off it!

My goal is to contract with Pro Synergy at some point, but if you can fly a Noctis now, hit me up in game.
Twulf
Thunder Clap Industry
#7 - 2012-04-11 17:36:26 UTC
Kahega Amielden wrote:
Quote:
When I say highly profitable, it's not uncommon for rookie salvagers to make around 1 billion ISK a week.


A note to people enticed by this number: This is highly dependent on the faction of rats you are salvaging. Additionally, if we assume you make 20 mil ISK per hour salvaging (assumes good rats, you salvage and loot quickly, and the OP's group does not take too much of the profit), 1 billion a week would require you spend 50 hours (e.g. more time than you spend at your job) just salvaging.


That said, while the figure quoted in the OP is straight bullshit unless you have way too much free time or extreme luck, this -is- a very good way for newbies to make money. Additionally, if you have scanning skills, you can scan down missionrunners and loot/salvage without having to split the profits (but this does of course require you spend time scanning and by extension training the requisite skills). This is ninja salvaging. It's also a ton more exciting.


Quote:
by salvaging, do you mean going up to a wreck and using the salvage mod to get the metal scraps? If so, what kind of isk can you make an hour from this?

I've salvaged a few of my wrecks this way to see what it was like and it's pretty boring work


Presumably it would include both this and looting.

Quote:
This is highly profitable to all parties involved, and for those unaware, training to fly a Noctis salvager ship with fittings takes less than a day


uhhuh. And the newbies you're targeting are going to be able to buy the 90 mil hull ?

90m is a few weeks at tops for a casual player.
SabotNoob
Doomheim
#8 - 2012-04-11 17:46:32 UTC
Kahega Amielden wrote:


That said, while the figure quoted in the OP is straight bullshit unless you have way too much free time or extreme luck, this -is- a very good way for newbies to make money. Additionally, if you have scanning skills, you can scan down missionrunners and loot/salvage without having to split the profits (but this does of course require you spend time scanning and by extension training the requisite skills).


I did a little ninja salvaging in the past, just to check it out. It can be fun, but if you're in it for the ISK only, you'd want to pair up with mission runners that ABANDON their wrecks. That way you can use a Noctis to tractor them in quickly and efficiently, rather than spend so much time flying to each and every one if they are not abandoned. Wrecks that are not abandoned cannot be tractored with tractor beams.
Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings
#9 - 2012-04-11 17:48:11 UTC
Twulf wrote:

90m is a few weeks at tops for a casual player.


Do you know how godawful boring "a few weeks" of grinding is? Especially if it's for the sole purpose to just be able to grind more?

Accidentally The Whole Frigate - For-newbies blog (currently on pause)
Grikath
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#10 - 2012-04-11 18:29:22 UTC
Petrus Blackshell wrote:
Twulf wrote:

90m is a few weeks at tops for a casual player.


Do you know how godawful boring "a few weeks" of grinding is? Especially if it's for the sole purpose to just be able to grind more?


To each his own, Petrus.....

Salvaging level 3/4's is an easy way to augment a newbies' income so that he will actually have to grind less to get anywhere in highsec, as long as NPC corp/faction standings aren't an issue.
It's a good way to let newbies earn their ISK by Doing Stuff, in amounts that are "not interesting" to us old (bitter)vets, but sure as hell are substantial to them.

They also do not need a noctis at all, especially with the reduction in size of metal scraps. The oldfashioned salvastroyer works fine for newbie salvaging, even if they may have to make two trips to Get It All.

With the salvage components and mins from reprocessing modules (as long as that will last, soon they will *have* to mine for mins) they can even engage in some minor/private production, if that has their fancy.
Efficient? Not really, but it shows them what Can Be Done In EVE, and they can always get better at it if they like it.

Not everything in EVE is about assploding ships, quite the contrary.

Highsec isn't "Safe".  Neither is it a playground for bullies and bottomfeeders. So stop complaining and start playing the game already.
Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings
#11 - 2012-04-11 19:19:16 UTC
Grikath wrote:

It's a good way to let newbies earn their ISK by Doing Stuff, in amounts that are "not interesting" to us old (bitter)vets, but sure as hell are substantial to them.

I'm not arguing that newbies shouldn't learn the value of ISK by working hard for it. Hell, I remember ratting for a few of hours to just afford a Claw and fittings when I was a newbie. I'm also aware that not everyone gets their kicks from shooting things.

However, salvaging is second-rate income, and (at least to my perception) it doesn't seem like fun at all to clean up after a missioner. It seems especially silly since salvaging requires more micro-management than missioning does, and pays out far less.

If a newbie is interested in salvage, I would point him in the direction of exploration (and mag/radar sites), which contain good loot, a little bit of pew pew, and a chance for a really shiny drop.

But, to each his own, I guess.

Accidentally The Whole Frigate - For-newbies blog (currently on pause)
Deviate Sin
The Byzantine Empire
#12 - 2012-04-11 20:11:03 UTC
Ok, just to clarify, here's where the numbers come from:

All salvage from the week is collected in corp hangar until payday, when it is refined/sold. When a salvager cleans a mission, he gets 1 point, as does the mission runner. On payday, taxes are subtracted and the payout per point is figured. Usually, this averages between 4 and 6 million isk per point, and everyone is paid out.

This leads to the ISK required for the Noctis: You can actually salvage in any ship you want. Each station has a corp Noctis to use until you can afford your own. Keep in mind, it takes a whopping 12 missions salvaged on average to pay for a Noctis and fittings. Not hard to do.

As far as how many hours it takes to earn a billion isk a week, that's going to depend on how efficient the salvager is. If you're slow, taking your time, it's obviously going to take you longer per mission, and you'll make less. The weeks I made around 1b ISK/week, I can assure you I did not salvage anywhere near 50 hours. Keep in mind, some missions are 1 pocket with just a few wrecks, some are 3 or 4 pockets with many more, and your pay for each will be the same. It's based on AVERAGE value of mission loot/salvage over the week.

Honestly, rather than come in here and sh!t on the thread in an attempt to scare people away, why not actually join the chat channels and get some information? If it wasn't a viable business plan and great opportunity for salvagers, nobody would stick around. Yet the folks who are dedicated to salvaging tend to have no complaints, making better isk than they could most any other way with low sp's.
Deviate Sin
The Byzantine Empire
#13 - 2012-04-11 20:14:21 UTC
Kahega Amielden wrote:
Quote:
When I say highly profitable, it's not uncommon for rookie salvagers to make around 1 billion ISK a week.


A note to people enticed by this number: This is highly dependent on the faction of rats you are salvaging. Additionally, if we assume you make 20 mil ISK per hour salvaging (assumes good rats, you salvage and loot quickly, and the OP's group does not take too much of the profit), 1 billion a week would require you spend 50 hours (e.g. more time than you spend at your job) just salvaging.


That said, while the figure quoted in the OP is straight bullshit unless you have way too much free time or extreme luck, this -is- a very good way for newbies to make money. Additionally, if you have scanning skills, you can scan down missionrunners and loot/salvage without having to split the profits (but this does of course require you spend time scanning and by extension training the requisite skills). This is ninja salvaging. It's also a ton more exciting.


Quote:
by salvaging, do you mean going up to a wreck and using the salvage mod to get the metal scraps? If so, what kind of isk can you make an hour from this?

I've salvaged a few of my wrecks this way to see what it was like and it's pretty boring work


Presumably it would include both this and looting.

Quote:
This is highly profitable to all parties involved, and for those unaware, training to fly a Noctis salvager ship with fittings takes less than a day


uhhuh. And the newbies you're targeting are going to be able to buy the 90 mil hull ?


Before talking out your anus, please insert a breath mint in order to save us all the stink.

Thanks,

Deviate Sin
Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings
#14 - 2012-04-11 20:17:18 UTC
Deviate Sin wrote:
viable business plan


That's the part that has us worried, bro. "Viable business plans" by definition make profit for the one running it. All this is a zero-sum game, so the ISK has to come from somewhere. The only part I can see the profit can be deducted from is the worth of the salvage/loot, which means that a salvager would be better off salvaging independently than going by your "point" system.

Accidentally The Whole Frigate - For-newbies blog (currently on pause)
Deviate Sin
The Byzantine Empire
#15 - 2012-04-11 20:18:40 UTC
SabotNoob wrote:
Lyron-Baktos wrote:
by salvaging, do you mean going up to a wreck and using the salvage mod to get the metal scraps? If so, what kind of isk can you make an hour from this?

I've salvaged a few of my wrecks this way to see what it was like and it's pretty boring work


I heard that the average Level 4 mission wreck field generates around 4.4 million ISK, more or less. You are not just getting the scraps, but also the contents of the wrecks (mods and stuff). You can get them without any danger if the mission runner abandons the wreck (which I do). Abandoning it turns it blue.

It is boring, if you fly up to a wreck to salvage it. It is MUCH MUCH MORE efficient and less time consuming if you use a Noctis and tractor in multiple wrecks at a time and salvage them at once. With proper skills, you can tractor wrecks around 60+km out, so you don't need to fly to them at all.

A typical Noctis fit looks like this:

Highs:
4 x Small Tractor Beam
4 x Salvager

Mids and Lows to taste (cargo expanders to hold more stuff that you salvage, etc.). With 4 tractors, you can tractor in 4 wrecks at the same time. Once they are within salvage range, you salvage them with your 4 salvagers. Then you target 4 more wrecks to tractor in. You'll get the hang of it. Eventually, you can salvage an entire Level 4 wreck field in less than 5 minutes, and bank a few million off it!

My goal is to contract with Pro Synergy at some point, but if you can fly a Noctis now, hit me up in game.


Good points sir. T2 small tractor doesn't take all that long to train either, and that gets you in roughly the 90km range for tractoring. Running 5 tractors and 3 salvagers can be more efficient as well, and you won't have much time to get bored as if you're tractoring and salvaging to your full potential, things move very quickly. 4-6m per point, and a point in around 5 minutes, that's pretty dang good ISK for a low-sp pilot. Yes, sometimes you'll have to wait for new mission contracts if there's not many missioners contracting, but usually there's enough work to keep you busy and making isk.
Deviate Sin
The Byzantine Empire
#16 - 2012-04-11 20:20:24 UTC
SabotNoob wrote:
Kahega Amielden wrote:


That said, while the figure quoted in the OP is straight bullshit unless you have way too much free time or extreme luck, this -is- a very good way for newbies to make money. Additionally, if you have scanning skills, you can scan down missionrunners and loot/salvage without having to split the profits (but this does of course require you spend time scanning and by extension training the requisite skills).


I did a little ninja salvaging in the past, just to check it out. It can be fun, but if you're in it for the ISK only, you'd want to pair up with mission runners that ABANDON their wrecks. That way you can use a Noctis to tractor them in quickly and efficiently, rather than spend so much time flying to each and every one if they are not abandoned. Wrecks that are not abandoned cannot be tractored with tractor beams.



Truth spoken here. Mission runners that work with salvagers either in a salvage corp or otherwise are usually pretty good at abandoning wrecks.

This is not in any way to be compared with ninja salvaging. Ninja salvaging is slow and tedius, with lots of downtime.
Kalli Brixzat
#17 - 2012-04-11 20:23:14 UTC
Slurping up other people's salvage/loot is pretty profitable, but not near what some are representing here. I did this for a while after getting board of Drake facerolling through L3s and low end L4s. I picked up a cormorant, loaded 3 tractors and 3 salvagers, plus cargo expander, MWD and cap-recharge. Pretty much no tank necessary. whole thing cost less than the cost next to nothing.

Running clean-up after a couple of mission runners I knew was ok money and a nice change of pace because it's less hectic than combat, but still very involved. Here's a couple things to keep in mind about salvage ops:

1. Mind numbingly boring after a couple hours
2. High highs, and low lows. Some nights you're bring in 20M/hour (more in a noctis)...some nights it's 5M/hour (depends on the rats)
3. Got chased off a lot of wreck fields, and shot at more than once.
4. Not nearly as profitable over the long term as one would think.
Deviate Sin
The Byzantine Empire
#18 - 2012-04-11 20:24:48 UTC
Petrus Blackshell wrote:
Deviate Sin wrote:
viable business plan


That's the part that has us worried, bro. "Viable business plans" by definition make profit for the one running it. All this is a zero-sum game, so the ISK has to come from somewhere. The only part I can see the profit can be deducted from is the worth of the salvage/loot, which means that a salvager would be better off salvaging independently than going by your "point" system.



Currently there's a 10% fee deducted, so payout per point is based on 90% of loot/salvage. Some of that 10% is for corp wallet, and some is for the person in each station that takes the time each week to refine/haul/sell the loot. Considering the corporation finds the mission runners so you have steady work, and does all the refine/haul/selling, 10% is pretty reasonable, and you can make more isk per hour since all you have to do is grab bookmarks, salvage, and drop loot in hangar, rinse and repeat. There are going to be very few cases where an independent salvager can make up that 10% difference, considering variations in mission runner's play schedules, down time waiting for bookmarks, etc. Once again, drop by one of the channels and chat with some folks who are actively participating in the program, and get some information. It's a friendly group, I promise.
Deviate Sin
The Byzantine Empire
#19 - 2012-04-11 20:31:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Deviate Sin
Kalli Brixzat wrote:
Slurping up other people's salvage/loot is pretty profitable, but not near what some are representing here. I did this for a while after getting board of Drake facerolling through L3s and low end L4s. I picked up a cormorant, loaded 3 tractors and 3 salvagers, plus cargo expander, MWD and cap-recharge. Pretty much no tank necessary. whole thing cost less than the cost next to nothing.

Running clean-up after a couple of mission runners I knew was ok money and a nice change of pace because it's less hectic than combat, but still very involved. Here's a couple things to keep in mind about salvage ops:

1. Mind numbingly boring after a couple hours
2. High highs, and low lows. Some nights you're bring in 20M/hour (more in a noctis)...some nights it's 5M/hour (depends on the rats)
3. Got chased off a lot of wreck fields, and shot at more than once.
4. Not nearly as profitable over the long term as one would think.




The numbers being represented here are based off of using a Noctis, getting a steady supply of bookmarks rather than relying on whomever feels like being charitable, and all wrecks being abandoned. These 3 things increase your ISK/hour equation dramatically. Most days you can stay as busy as you like, salvaging and dropping loot pretty much non-stop. Unlike waiting for someone to decide to give you their table scraps, and having to fly to the wrecks rather than tractor.

So to recap:

1. I suppose you can look at it as boring, but you're just as busy as when missioning. The scenery just doesn't change much.
2. Having missioners/bookmarks provided for you means a more consistant flow of work.
3. Wrecks are abandoned, so no aggro, no getting chased off. Never been locked up even once, personally.
4. Quite profitable over the long term, though veteran players with lots of SP may have higher paying opportunities.
Deviate Sin
The Byzantine Empire
#20 - 2012-04-11 20:41:16 UTC
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AnebeCPrGmpndENrbFVtNnlfbHg4Q2V6MDhFbHBmTFE&authkey=CIiguoUJ#gid=6

There's no hidden agendas or secrets, everything is pretty transparent, so have a look.
That particular week I salvaged 118 missions. If you figure 10 minutes per salvaged mission on average (that's a big number, experienced salvagers do much better), that's 19.6 hours. Thats roughly 29m isk/hour. Not bad for a low sp pilot just starting out if you ask me. Defintely not going to make that running level 1 or 2 misisons.
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