EVE General Discussion

He perhaps thinks that Tengu PvE is all that matters because it's all he's seen. But more likely trolling.

Yes Roime, please provide a link to this quote from CCP.

Also add to the list, T2 precision ammo. Worked fine when first introduced but got whined about by nano pilots and subsequently got over-nerfed to the point where normal Faction ammo is more effective in any situation where you would need precision ammo.

Lights work fine, but the fitting requirements are really high.

One area where missiles really suffer is that there are no weapon tiers. For turret ships it's really handy to be able to downgrade From Neutron Blasters to Ions, or from Megapulse to Dual Heavy Pulse. Missile ships get no such option, and not only are there no lower tiers, but Caldari ships in particular tend to be gimped in their fitting capabilities; a Raven with 6x Seige Launcher II has 476 CPU and 1950 grid left for the rest of the fit. A Megathron with 7 Neutron Blaster Cannon II has 383 CPU and 6278 grid left. A Tempest with 6 800mm AC II has 503 CPU and 7495 grid left... Once you subtract the fitting requirement of the Mandatory Warp Drive (75 CPU, 1250 grid), then there's very little left for luxuries like cap injectors, tank and heavy utility modules on a Raven, and the same goes for most other Caldari missile boats. If your MegaPulse Geddon or 425mm Rail Domi won't quite fit, then you can easily drop to DHPs or 350mm rails and be able to fit that heavy cap injector or heavy neut.

1. Torps don't need more range. If they need anything, then cutting explosion radius down to 400-425 m would be it. But I think the real problem isn't with torps, it's with the Raven - it needs a bit more fittings and a lowslot moved to a medslot, it doesn't really have the tank it needs to survive as a close-range anti-BS/BC gank platform.

2. Cruise has no role. It will still have no role even with more alpha. There are no targets worth shooting with Cruise (over another weapon system) and there is no effective Cruise platform. F*** knows how you solve all this.

3. They're tricky to fit. Not convinced that they're too tricky though.

4. Jav DPS is okay, but its range isn't. 50% extra isn't enough, it only gives 5 km more on rockets and 10 km more on HAMs and torps, neither is enough to be really useful. Guns get a much greater range increase between high-damage ammo and T2 long-range ammo (which is the comparison used in balancing). Compare Mulitfreq and Scorch: that's a 200% increase! A range increase of 100%, instead of 50%, would be more appropriate.

5. They're fine.

6. That's missiles for you. Skill can reduce the effect. This isn't a problem. The idea of randomly seeking out a new target could be fun though.

7. When CCP reworked Precisions in QR in 2008, I immediately posted that they were worthless. Precision lights especially, as they don't have the range to hit their intended targets, because of the crazy -50% range. At the other end of the spectrum, Precision Cruise does have sufficient range and does do notably greater % damage against small fast stuff, but since doubling a very small number is still a very small number, this isn't useful.

The whole concept of Precision is probably a bad idea. Maybe a line of extra-fast T2 missiles, trading damage for speed, would be a better idea?

8. If Barrage, Null and Scorch do not have velocity penalties, neither should Jav.

From what I understand, missiles don't require as much active piloting so instead of grouping all your guns you can activate them individually as how you see fit. That would at least mitigate a lot of the "alpha-issue".

The reason long-range version of short-range gun ammo (Scorch, etc) has a greater range bonus than long-range version of short-range Launcher ammo (Javelin) is because Gunnery range support skills (Trajectory Analysis, Sharpshooter) give only a 5% bonus to range per level, whereas Missile range support skills (Missile Projection, Missile Bombardment) give 10% bonus to missile range per level.

My opinion is that Javelin Rockets and HAMs range is absolutely fine. Javelin Torps, and Torp range in general is terrible. My point is that Torpedoes are a battleship-class weapon, yet Torpedo range is no better than HAM range, and HAMs are a cruiser-class weapon. The fact that Torpedoes are almost unusable by any Caldari ship other than the Raven hull (which has a missile velocity bonus), kind of points this flaw out.

It's one option.

Unfortunately the physics engine in EVE does not support increasing the speed. Well, maybe for torps and cruises.

I remember a Dev posting they got some weird results when they were playing around with missile speed the last time, around the "nano-nerf".

I don't see the link. Why do the skill bonus magnitudes have to do with anything? It sounds like you're balancing weapon systems by comparing patterns of bonus numbers, but that's just... crazy.



What is this nonsense? The Raven hull is the only one that can has bonused torps (yeah yeah Manti). Of course it's the only Caldari ship which uses them effectively!

Why is torp range horrible? Just saying because it's the same as HAMs isn't good enough, that tells us nothing of their value. What is the problem with ~28 km torps on the Raven? This covers normal disruptor range. You seem to be saying that pretty patterns of numbers are required for weapons to be balanced, but not only does that incorrectly assume that 1 km of range is of equal value at any range, but it also suggests that nerfing HAM range to 15 km (giving rockets, HAMs, torps 10, 15, 20 km base ranges) would results in balanced torps, which is absurd.

The additional 5 km range of Jav rockets is not useful in the slightest. Much of this is the speed penalty that prevents Jav rockets from effectively being used by kiters, but even without that, the 10-15 km range is almost impossible to maintain, as it is overheated web/scramble range.

Typhoons get a bonus to torps.

TD impact the turet, not the ammo. Missile launchers have no stats besides refire. Unless the tracking disruptor creates a launcher malfunction that just makes it launch slower I don't see how it will work.

As for Torps and Cruise, they work fine short range because you aren't throwing your flight time away chasing the ship. Where a gun cancels out transversal at range, it has the opposite effect on a missile. 90 km away orbiting me at 350 m/s means I need to take my 3750 m/s and reduce that by 350 for every second the missile is in flight because Missiles are the only weapon that don't travel in a straight line.