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New Dev Blog: Carebearing 2.0

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Eva Volkova
Perkone
Caldari State
#161 - 2012-04-10 17:27:39 UTC
Its seems to me you did half the work.
Removing alloys is easy. But i cant see the balance you whant to archieve.
Every pirate faction has loot, officer loot, haulers, and complex.
The drones didnt have those because they had alloys.
Now you remove alloys but you arent putting those in.

The salvage in the drones is subpar. The complex are allmost not done (very low income).
Will drones have plexes from 1-10? and will you upgrade them?
whats the reasoning of balance having same bountys without the other things?

EvA
Alain Kinsella
#162 - 2012-04-10 17:28:00 UTC
CCP Greyscale wrote:

[-SNIP- Sorry]

Due to the way that the loot tables are set up internally, it's *substantially* easier** to replace loot rather than remove it, so the solution we're going with for now is swapping all the Meta 0 stuff for metal scraps (the 0.01m3 version).

** We have a chance of picking from a given loot table, and then ratios for each type within the table. If we just removed the Meta 0 stuff, we'd end up dropping WAY more Meta 1-4, which isn't desirable, and the only way to resolve this is to alter the table pick rates, which are authored on a per-NPC basis, which would mean recalculating and adjusting every NPC in the game. This isn't really viable within the scope of this release, and we don't want to push this change back because it means doing a "double shock" to mineral prices; hence the metal scraps.


Understood, thanks.

But, if its easier to replace, please consider completing this 'change' and pass out Meta BPCs (and perhaps a few more tags).

"The Meta Game does not stop at the game. Ever."

Currently Retired / Semi-Casual (pending changes to RL concerns).
CCP Affinity
C C P
C C P Alliance
#163 - 2012-04-10 17:28:41 UTC
Visreae wrote:
CCP Affinity wrote:
DaDutchDude wrote:
Interesting changes which are already shaping EVE mineral markets today.

So a couple of questions:
1) Will Rogue Drones start dropping normal loot?
2) Will Rogue Drones salvage be increased? It seems today their salvage is quite below par.
3) Will you look into Rogue Drone exploration sites and escalations? Currently, their value is very low (who really wants 'augmented' or 'Integrated' drones?) and could use some new modules / blue prints / etc to be as interesting as the pirate faction drops.
4) How long will it take for the insurance values to adjust to the change in mineral prices? Already, the mineral prices have shot up significantly, and I assume the market will take months after this (if not longer) to adjust to the new realities. It seems a bit unfair if the insurance value for T1 ships lags so far behind players don't get compensated for these drastic changes.
5) Your blog doesn't mention this, but there's also talk about eliminating all T1 module drops from all NPCs. Can you confirm? And does that mean less loot, or will the entire loot drop table be revised to replace T1 drops with meta modules, and thereby reducing the chance for meta 4 modules?



1. No - Commander groups have loot tables, regular deadspace rogue drones don't
2. at the moment we have no plans to do this - but who knows!
3. We will definitely look into this :) not confirming we will do anything about it right away but it's definitely on our list of things to investigate
4. Pretty impossible for me to answer that and I am definitely not the person to be doing so - would need to be someone from research and statistics
5. confirmed - they will be replaced with metal scraps



Ty for answering our questions, it is deeply appreciated. Those shoes tho.....

Now on to the answers themselves;
1. So whats the benefit of killing drones as compared to other rats then? They used to provide something unique and alternative to mining?

Also this statistic of 40% of highends coming from drone space... where does it come from?

2. You have no plans to do this.... okay do you agree that they are worth less or can you provide data to the contrary, alleviating our concerns?

3. Thank you, its much needed.

4. Insurance levels have been out of scope since `nam. If you want to score kudo's from teh community look into this, too many instances of things being worth more in insurance than investment to build, and any kind of non vanilla stock ship has insurance levels waaaaaay below what the ship is worth.

5. I feel that the impact from this hasn't been thought out, is there any data or handy charts? Because removing loot from the game..... bounty's are really really boring, its neat to have isk faucets everywhere but the flow needs some chunks to it to make it interesting.



1. There's nothing particularly special about them anymore - we tried to make them different and it didn't really work out. We will look at giving them something more unique in the future but this will be done carefully.

2. I have no data on hand for this, but I will look into it with Bettik

5. The change has been thought out, we have our internal data and charts and will be keeping an eye on things after it goes live to see impact on TQ

♥ CCP Affinity ♥

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Team Astro Sparkle
Jas Dor
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#164 - 2012-04-10 17:30:02 UTC
EvilweaselFinance wrote:
Jas Dor wrote:
Nerfing the drone regions is pushing inflation in minerals found in addition to Zyde, Mega and Morphite in drone poo. What are you going to do about the shortage/rampant inflation of minerals found in high sec rocks?

Please also keep in mind that at 300m for a hulk and assuming a suicide gank every 10 hours of mining, the floor price of veld is 30m. Plugging this formula into a spreadsheet =30000000/60/((1600/33.3)*1000), gives a minimum trit price of around 10.0 for break even.

Something needs to give.

while we work hard, we have yet to reach that level of gankination


Your alliance, probably not. I'd like to see some info on the average life expectancy of a non-bot player mining within a reasonable distance of a market hub is.
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#165 - 2012-04-10 17:33:13 UTC
Adunh Slavy wrote:
CCP Greyscale wrote:
swapping all the Meta 0 stuff for metal scraps (the 0.01m3 version).


Thanks for the clarification. Back to work, miners, traders, etc.


Yeah, I was a little worried they would be replaced with higher Meta items instead, which would have somewhat defeated a large portion of the benefit.

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.
Astroniomix
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#166 - 2012-04-10 17:33:15 UTC
Jas Dor wrote:
EvilweaselFinance wrote:
Jas Dor wrote:
Nerfing the drone regions is pushing inflation in minerals found in addition to Zyde, Mega and Morphite in drone poo. What are you going to do about the shortage/rampant inflation of minerals found in high sec rocks?

Please also keep in mind that at 300m for a hulk and assuming a suicide gank every 10 hours of mining, the floor price of veld is 30m. Plugging this formula into a spreadsheet =30000000/60/((1600/33.3)*1000), gives a minimum trit price of around 10.0 for break even.

Something needs to give.

while we work hard, we have yet to reach that level of gankination


Your alliance, probably not. I'd like to see some info on the average life expectancy of a non-bot player mining within a reasonable distance of a market hub is.

Therein lies your problem.
Jas Dor
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#167 - 2012-04-10 17:34:48 UTC
Atum wrote:
Jas Dor wrote:
Please also keep in mind that at 300m for a hulk and assuming a suicide gank every 10 hours of mining, the floor price of veld is 30m. Plugging this formula into a spreadsheet =30000000/60/((1600/33.3)*1000), gives a minimum trit price of around 10.0 for break even.

Run your maths with spod instead of veld ;)


When somebody wastes JF fuel jumping trit out of 0.0 . . .
CCP Greyscale
C C P
C C P Alliance
#168 - 2012-04-10 17:34:59 UTC
Neddy Fox wrote:
Quote:

he added 3 more deadspace sites, bringing us to a point where we now have all 1/10 to 10/10 pirate deadspace sites in game


Sansha 9/10 doesn't exist..


Looking into this one as well Smile

EvilweaselFinance wrote:
CCP Greyscale wrote:

Pulling all the Meta 0* loot out of PvE drops has been on our to-do list for a while, as it's damaging to both mining and T1 industry. With the changes to rogue drones going in, we're already committing to a mineral supply "shock" in this patch, so we decided when planning this release to roll in the Meta 0 removal at the same time so we only have to go through this process once. Due to the way that the loot tables are set up internally, it's *substantially* easier** to replace loot rather than remove it, so the solution we're going with for now is swapping all the Meta 0 stuff for metal scraps (the 0.01m3 version).

So just to confirm I understand this: every time a npc rat would have dropped a t1 module, it will drop a single metal scrap instead? Will there be any differentiation on how many scraps are dropped by various rats, or is this a single 1 mod = 1 scrap ratio, regardless of rat type or mod type?


Yup, any time you'd get a Meta 0 on TQ currently, you'll now get a unit of Metal Scraps instead.
gfldex
#169 - 2012-04-10 17:35:20 UTC
CCP Greyscale wrote:
With the changes to rogue drones going in, we're already committing to a mineral supply "shock" in this patch, so we decided when planning this release to roll in the Meta 0 removal at the same time so we only have to go through this process once.


I give this post a 10 on the Grey Scale of insanity.

/me chuckles

If you take all the sand out of the box, only the cat poo will remain.
EvilweaselFinance
GoonCorp
Goonswarm Federation
#170 - 2012-04-10 17:37:09 UTC
CCP Greyscale wrote:
Neddy Fox wrote:
Quote:

he added 3 more deadspace sites, bringing us to a point where we now have all 1/10 to 10/10 pirate deadspace sites in game


Sansha 9/10 doesn't exist..


Looking into this one as well Smile

Let me save you some time: you consider the fleet staging points the 9/10 though they're not labeled as such. There are no labeled "9/10s" but the fleet staging point is guaranteed to escalate and drops a-type loot.
EvilweaselFinance
GoonCorp
Goonswarm Federation
#171 - 2012-04-10 17:37:35 UTC
Also thanks for the scraps clarification.
gfldex
#172 - 2012-04-10 17:37:44 UTC
Chris Wheeler wrote:
and PLEX prices will drop as more ppl need more money for more ships.


And miners need less chars to earn the same ISK. That was one of my biggest concerns with mining bots. The only way for a miner to counter dropping income is to increase mineral output, what in turn creates faster drop of income until miners drop out of the game.

The whole GTC/PLEX thing is one big can of worms.

If you take all the sand out of the box, only the cat poo will remain.
DoctorABC
Hard Boiled Moon Inc.
#173 - 2012-04-10 17:38:09 UTC  |  Edited by: DoctorABC
Dear CCP Affinity,

Should drones will not drop alloys anymore and will not drop modules, why to change the ss of systems? How can drones affect the minerals' market if they will produce nothing that can be converted to minerals?

Did you ever consider the effect that ss decrease will have on planetary resources in dronregs?

Are there any plans to make changes to drone anomalies the way you changed other anomalies, to make not only 2 top, but some other relatively equal in terms of income?
Aryth
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#174 - 2012-04-10 17:38:09 UTC
gfldex wrote:
CCP Greyscale wrote:
With the changes to rogue drones going in, we're already committing to a mineral supply "shock" in this patch, so we decided when planning this release to roll in the Meta 0 removal at the same time so we only have to go through this process once.


I give this post a 10 on the Grey Scale of insanity.

/me chuckles



Greyscale, More like Greenscale am I rite?

Leader of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal.

Creator of Burn Jita

Vile Rat: You're the greatest sociopath that has ever played eve.
CCP Greyscale
C C P
C C P Alliance
#175 - 2012-04-10 17:40:26 UTC
EvilweaselFinance wrote:
CCP Greyscale wrote:
Neddy Fox wrote:
Quote:

he added 3 more deadspace sites, bringing us to a point where we now have all 1/10 to 10/10 pirate deadspace sites in game


Sansha 9/10 doesn't exist..


Looking into this one as well Smile

Let me save you some time: you consider the fleet staging points the 9/10 though they're not labeled as such. There are no labeled "9/10s" but the fleet staging point is guaranteed to escalate and drops a-type loot.


Correct on all points, this is working mostly as intended, good knowledge Smile
Einar Matveinen
Mahe Ratu
#176 - 2012-04-10 17:40:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Einar Matveinen
CCP Affinity wrote:

1. There's nothing particularly special about them anymore - we tried to make them different and it didn't really work out. We will look at giving them something more unique in the future but this will be done carefully.

2. I have no data on hand for this, but I will look into it with Bettik

5. The change has been thought out, we have our internal data and charts and will be keeping an eye on things after it goes live to see impact on TQ


Great, we will have now half-rats.
Andrea Griffin
#177 - 2012-04-10 17:41:53 UTC
CCP Greyscale wrote:
St Mio wrote:
2. Are you guys aware that the new DED 3/10s have the same initial signal strength as the DED 4/10s?
2) The Sansha and Serpentis ones are actually correct, but the other three have the wrong values set. Good catch, I'll fix it as soon as I finish replying here
Now THAT is service! ♥♥♥ Greyscale ♥♥♥

CCP Sreegs is my favorite developer.
Lifelongnoob
State War Academy
Caldari State
#178 - 2012-04-10 17:42:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Lifelongnoob
with mineral prices set to increase supercap pilots will be very nervous about losing them... a good thing imo Lol

200bil isk titan hull will become the norm
EvilweaselFinance
GoonCorp
Goonswarm Federation
#179 - 2012-04-10 17:43:20 UTC
Einar Matveinen wrote:

Great, we will have now half-rats.

halfrats for halfmen
Nendail Smith
Lockheed Nighthawk
#180 - 2012-04-10 17:43:27 UTC
Jas Dor wrote:
EvilweaselFinance wrote:
Jas Dor wrote:
Nerfing the drone regions is pushing inflation in minerals found in addition to Zyde, Mega and Morphite in drone poo. What are you going to do about the shortage/rampant inflation of minerals found in high sec rocks?

Please also keep in mind that at 300m for a hulk and assuming a suicide gank every 10 hours of mining, the floor price of veld is 30m. Plugging this formula into a spreadsheet =30000000/60/((1600/33.3)*1000), gives a minimum trit price of around 10.0 for break even.

Something needs to give.

while we work hard, we have yet to reach that level of gankination


Your alliance, probably not. I'd like to see some info on the average life expectancy of a non-bot player mining within a reasonable distance of a market hub is.


Not sure about average, but I ran a HS mining business under various corp flags since 2008. Just went to pvp and PVE a couple months ago. I had 8 accounts at one point and plexed them all continuously - unbotted. Minerals got to be so low priced that it wasn't worth the hassle and I went to ice for the last 12-18 months. Then that wasn't really worth it and I went to PVE/PVP. Now of course everything is rising! LOL Go figure.

I didn't mind mining at all really, would still enjoy it if it wasn't for the fact that you have to find systems that are virtually empty so you can notice when you're about to get ganked. Mining could be a relaxing source of income that I wouldn't mind doing again but I'd only do it again if I could spend time watching movies and reading at the same time. Since the ganking has gotten so frequent that isn't really an option. If you want to stay alive as a miner now days even in high sec you need to be watching local, running dscans and doing rapid research on people who jump in system.

The more they make it difficult to gank in HS the more people will not mind mining there. In low sec and null sec you can do things to stav off ganks but in hs you can't much fly a fleet and kill people as they come in to prevent them from killing you. The advantage is completely in the PVPers hands in HS since they come in knowing they are going to, and willing to die.