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New Dev Blog: Carebearing 2.0

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Alice Katsuko
Perkone
Caldari State
#261 - 2012-04-10 20:18:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Alice Katsuko
Ranger 1 wrote:
Zifrian wrote:
Alice Katsuko wrote:
So, just to make sure:

(1) Rogue drones are getting bounties, but will not be dropping any modules aside from scrap metal.

(2) Rogue drone salvage will still be craptastic.

(3) Rogue drone "officer" spawns are still going to be worthless.

(4) Rogue drone DED complexes will still be completely useless, and no new ones are in the pipe, nor is anyone going to look at them in the near future.

(5) Nothing is being done to make mining more interesting, or to increase the local supply of low-end minerals in null.

Reposting because these seem to be the common issues all of us in drone regions have with this change. I didn't move to 0.0 to shoot rats for bounties, no items, no unique rewards and then buy crap in jita to get jumped out. I can make craptons of isk in empire and not have to deal with the risk of being in 0.0. In short, increased risk should create increased rewards. You are walking this back without addressing the above.


The interesting thing is that with the belts not being adjusted the drone regions will become the best place in the game to mine high ends.

People that are ratting oriented will likely start moving out (possibly by alliance, wishing to take over someone elses space) while industrialists that have a strong focus on mining will be drawn to the area in droves.

Territories will change hands, bigger fish may try to invade other area's, smaller fish will attempt to move in, roaming gang will be drawn to the area to harvest the larger mining fleets likely to assemble there, teamwork to protect those fleets will become more important that solitary ratting.

All in all, very interesing changes.


Belts in the drone regions are no different from belts elsewhere. The big problem, and one that has been pointed out repeatedly elsewhere is that there are no good sources of low-end minerals in null. That is, the only time folk will mine low ends is so that they can roll and respawn a hidden belt for additional high-ends, and that is done only by big multi-player operations or by players who run a half-dozen max-skilled Hulks for hours at a time. What CCP should have done was introduce the miner equivalent of Plush compound, which is a huge source of tritanium and also accounts for half the value of a Drone Patrol or Horde. Or something similar.

As always: I don't have anything against buffing mining or removing drone alloys, so long as it's not done in isolation.
nestafarios
stooge in plain sight
#262 - 2012-04-10 20:19:27 UTC
EvilweaselFinance wrote:
The Gard'ner wrote:
So small time hi sec industrials who need some rare minerals from the compounds will be left hanging to dry cus the few drone missions we get are going to be gone ? How is this helping industry ? All the power will still be in big alliances'hands again. Especially with the new system of modules making. thanks alot CCP you made my game alot less fun


go buy them in jita you nitwit


someone still has to put em in Jita for sale, oh wait, that would still be the big alliances who have unlimited access to the resources, so the prices are still going up.

so yeah big alliances still have the game in control

"The overall goal of all these changes is to make the drone regions more economically balanced, and to reduce the downward pressure on mineral prices from the drone regions so mining becomes more profitable." (CCP affinity)

I have yet to see where the pressure on mins is downward, they have been steadily going up.
Deathwing Reborn
#263 - 2012-04-10 20:21:43 UTC
Steve Ronuken wrote:
One thing about metal scraps. They're pretty much the best Trit compression you can get.

50,000 per m3.


And they'll be a /lot/ more common now.



Dont say that, If CCP comes to their senses and really starts thinking about what they are doing they will get rid of those as well because they will be hurting miners just like alloys.
Adunh Slavy
#264 - 2012-04-10 20:24:07 UTC
nestafarios wrote:

I have yet to see where the pressure on mins is downward, they have been steadily going up.



Take a look at some five year price trends and get back to us.

Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves.  - William Pitt
Palovana
Inner Fire Inc.
#265 - 2012-04-10 20:24:47 UTC
Condensed Veldspar wrote:
What will happen to the Rogue Drone alloys sat in peoples hangers? will they turn into Minerals on patch day? Just dissapear? or turn into rare items like some of those things out there you don't see often anymore?


I think they should stay, considering the hassle CCP got from some item collectors when no-longer-used items were removed from the game.

Please support: export of settings in editable format

Your stuff goes here.
Haifisch Zahne
Hraka Manufacture GmbH
#266 - 2012-04-10 20:43:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Haifisch Zahne
REMOVED TO PROTEST CCP's Community Censorship Protocol ("CCCP").

...except this retain part: CCP's economist is a fool.
EvilweaselFinance
GoonCorp
Goonswarm Federation
#267 - 2012-04-10 20:51:59 UTC
nestafarios wrote:

someone still has to put em in Jita for sale, oh wait, that would still be the big alliances who have unlimited access to the resources, so the prices are still going up.

yeah us big alliances really care about arkanor

if you're that insane about avoiding the taint of 0.0 go daytripping in a wormhole
EvilweaselFinance
GoonCorp
Goonswarm Federation
#268 - 2012-04-10 20:52:41 UTC
also would you like 200b worth of technetium it seems that's this week's shipment
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
#269 - 2012-04-10 20:53:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Steve Ronuken
Haifisch Zahne wrote:
I'd point out that your economics wiz at the company stated at Fanfest that ship destruction is not an ISK sink. Well, it is a loss of "potential" ISK (i.e., of anything not looted or salvaged). This value is gone.



The value might be gone. But the isk which was paid for it remains.

ISK Faucet - Something that puts new isk into the game
ISK Sink - Something that takes isk out of the game.


We're not talking about assets.


If anything, ship destruction feeds inflation by:

  1. Reducing the assets in the game. Where A isk = B assets, it's now A isk = B - C Assets. So the isk becomes worth less.
  2. Introducing more ISK by insurance.



As for plex:

This siphons money out of the wallets of people who mine (getting the isk from people who mission) and who mission, giving it to people who can't be bothered earning it.

No isk is created or destroyed. It is given velocity, however, as it will be spent.

Woo! CSM XI!

Fuzzwork Enterprises

Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter
Davo OHno
The Sagan Clan
#270 - 2012-04-10 20:55:35 UTC
CCP Affinity wrote:
Blakslabeth wrote:
So the summary is:

#1 More expensive ships
#2 Less ability to make isk in incursions
#3 If you live in the drone region your true sec now sucks.

Hard to get excited about 3 nerfs in one blog.



but.. think of the miners dude! They need love too <3



I love my miners, but... the issue with drones is that there are no faction drops. EVER!!! Will there be some kind of module drops, reduced quantity of compounds? The occasional HUGE bounty???

Seems there should be something to compensate for the lack of the occasional BIG faction drops from Rats, and plex sites. In drone space, that is not an eventuality, drones don't drop faction mods or such. So the balance was the drone compounds, but it doesn't seem that a bounty will fairly compensate for that which is removed.

More expensive ships... If we are making it easier to get into bigger ships with the changes in skills, but making harder to make isk, the newer player is stuck in their cruiser for a much longer time. The mission rewards, and bounties (or insurance), don't increase with the market. Thus the new player/mission runner, is grinding much longer for that BS. At least he should be grinding much longer for two BS's, if he/she follows the golden rule of EVE. Don't fly what you can't afford to lose. (seen the price of BS's lately?)
MotherSammy
Clan Sammy Trade Empire
#271 - 2012-04-10 20:57:41 UTC
CCP just can't stop making the right changes!
Indahmawar Fazmarai
#272 - 2012-04-10 21:02:28 UTC
Began reading the devblog hoping it was about showing some love for hisec, then quickly realized it just was about some random nullsec crap. Ugh

Don't mislead readers, CCP Guard, just call it "giving more to uberalliances #8,457" and save us a couple minutes, thank you.
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
#273 - 2012-04-10 21:03:34 UTC
One other effect of rising mineral prices.

Tech 2 frigates become a lot more viable.

Take a look at http://www.fuzzwork.co.uk/blueprints/11371/-4/5/0/5

That's a Wolf. The majority of its cost comes from non-mineral sources. Increasing mineral prices by a factor of 10 would add on the order of 12 million (this is a Eyeballed figure. Don't quote me)
That's a 50% rise. For a 1000% rise in mineral prices.

Woo! CSM XI!

Fuzzwork Enterprises

Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter
Draconus Lofwyr
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#274 - 2012-04-10 21:07:42 UTC
i see one more reason the mineral and ship prices will go up as well, because of the current sov system, it encourages churn over fights. big alliance moves into area, flips everything, gets bored and moves elsewhere for more sov flip churn. leaving the current space vacant for another big alliance to flip. so the industrialists can never really get settled in for a long production process.

You want to encourage an inferno? change the sov mechanics so an alliance can not gain or loose massive regions in days, make each system a fight. Hell the old sov days of pos spamming at least had its own built in mechanism of slowing down the front so you had to fight. where a single small alliance could hold a system because it could logistical support the pos's long enough to be a royal pain to the invaders.


Can we start fighting on fronts, instead of TCU's? this will give the industrialists some time to settle in for mining and building without having to evac every month or 2.
drdxie
#275 - 2012-04-10 21:10:33 UTC
So Incursions get "rebalanced" drones get "rebalanced" what happens to moon goo?? The PI on a planets shifts and we keep having to move extractors.. why not do this for moons, let them run out of one type of raw material and another "spawns" make moon mining fun again .... Twisted.

For the fools who hate carebears.. moon mining is carebearing Roll

Caldari Loving needed.. https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1608277&#post1608277
EvilweaselFinance
GoonCorp
Goonswarm Federation
#276 - 2012-04-10 21:34:32 UTC
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:
Began reading the devblog hoping it was about showing some love for hisec, then quickly realized it just was about some random nullsec crap. Ugh

Don't mislead readers, CCP Guard, just call it "giving more to uberalliances #8,457" and save us a couple minutes, thank you.

hello extremely dimwitted poster "Indahmawar Fazmarai"

while you are woe-is-me-ing it up check the price of trit in jita and other minerals mined in highsec

process this, then ponder why nobody takes you seriously
EvilweaselFinance
GoonCorp
Goonswarm Federation
#277 - 2012-04-10 21:34:48 UTC
drdxie wrote:
So Incursions get "rebalanced" drones get "rebalanced" what happens to moon goo?? The PI on a planets shifts and we keep having to move extractors.. why not do this for moons, let them run out of one type of raw material and another "spawns" make moon mining fun again .... Twisted.

For the fools who hate carebears.. moon mining is carebearing Roll


ring mining
Gevlin
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#278 - 2012-04-10 21:39:36 UTC
when sleepers came out there was talk of eventually increasing the AI in Null sec and slowly working its way up to high sec.
is there still talk about it? would the programing more than just a little thing?

Out side of incursion and Worm hole space is there a plan to increase the AI?

I would love the option to increase or Scale the AI in my missions so I can do them in groups and use them as training simulations for real PVP. Just keep the isk reward the same

It would spice up the missions and allow me to train PVE newbs about the basics of PVP combat so when we get wardecced we will be more prepared. As it is ECM really has no place in Missions

Someday I will have the time to play. For now it is mining afk in High sec. In Cheap ships
Freelancer117
So you want to be a Hero
#279 - 2012-04-10 21:49:22 UTC
Just pre-ordered Guild Wars 2, WOOT

while the rest of New Eden Burns in Inferno,

I'll be docked ship spinning and chatting in GW2 / Eve


now that's carebearing 2.0 Bear

Who is with me ?

Eve online is :

A) mining simulator B) glorified chatroom C) spreadsheets online

D) CCP Games Pay to Win at skill leveling, with instant gratification

http://eve-radio.com//images/photos/3419/223/34afa0d7998f0a9a86f737d6.jpg

http://bit.ly/1egr4mF
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#280 - 2012-04-10 21:52:02 UTC
Alice Katsuko wrote:
Ranger 1 wrote:
Zifrian wrote:
Alice Katsuko wrote:
So, just to make sure:

(1) Rogue drones are getting bounties, but will not be dropping any modules aside from scrap metal.

(2) Rogue drone salvage will still be craptastic.

(3) Rogue drone "officer" spawns are still going to be worthless.

(4) Rogue drone DED complexes will still be completely useless, and no new ones are in the pipe, nor is anyone going to look at them in the near future.

(5) Nothing is being done to make mining more interesting, or to increase the local supply of low-end minerals in null.

Reposting because these seem to be the common issues all of us in drone regions have with this change. I didn't move to 0.0 to shoot rats for bounties, no items, no unique rewards and then buy crap in jita to get jumped out. I can make craptons of isk in empire and not have to deal with the risk of being in 0.0. In short, increased risk should create increased rewards. You are walking this back without addressing the above.


The interesting thing is that with the belts not being adjusted the drone regions will become the best place in the game to mine high ends.

People that are ratting oriented will likely start moving out (possibly by alliance, wishing to take over someone elses space) while industrialists that have a strong focus on mining will be drawn to the area in droves.

Territories will change hands, bigger fish may try to invade other area's, smaller fish will attempt to move in, roaming gang will be drawn to the area to harvest the larger mining fleets likely to assemble there, teamwork to protect those fleets will become more important that solitary ratting.

All in all, very interesing changes.


Belts in the drone regions are no different from belts elsewhere. The big problem, and one that has been pointed out repeatedly elsewhere is that there are no good sources of low-end minerals in null. That is, the only time folk will mine low ends is so that they can roll and respawn a hidden belt for additional high-ends, and that is done only by big multi-player operations or by players who run a half-dozen max-skilled Hulks for hours at a time. What CCP should have done was introduce the miner equivalent of Plush compound, which is a huge source of tritanium and also accounts for half the value of a Drone Patrol or Horde. Or something similar.

As always: I don't have anything against buffing mining or removing drone alloys, so long as it's not done in isolation.

The True Sec values in the Drone regions currently has a separate but equal effect on the quality of the belts in the Drone regions. While the True Sec value will be adjusted down in all other area's, it will remain the same for the belts. In this respect the Drone regions will be superior to most others.

If you chose not to take advantage of this fact, that is your own affair.

As far as not having good sources for low ends... Big smileBig smileBig smile

Those big bumpy things you occasionally run into when ratting are called asteroids, and they are full of them... literally on your doorstep. If you don't have the man power or will to mine it, even though it is essential for any industry you might like to do, that is something YOU need to address. Don't worry, you should be getting reinforcements on the mining front soon enough.

If you still seriously think you don't have access to low-ends, l suggest you learn how to place buy orders in Jita for them... or better yet for metal scraps. Then you can use the same logistics train you used to haul high ends / alloys out to bring your low ends in.

Now stop being obtuse.

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