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Destroyer vs 325mil is balanced.
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Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#61 - 2012-04-09 22:39:27 UTC
Virgil Travis wrote:
At least you weren't this guy. AFK mining in a honor tanked Machariel in the system right next door to Amamake. This is how it ends up folks

He must have spent literally every .01 ISK he had on that.
Harold Tuphlos
The Dark Space Initiative
Scary Wormhole People
#62 - 2012-04-09 22:39:31 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
Avila Cracko wrote:
Malcanis wrote:


If you fit your Hulk for EHP and not max yield you can you will still die from one Tornado.
That's not balanced at all.
If you fit your hulk with shield rigs, shield buffer mids and one Damage Controls in low you should be safe for ganking.


A full tank fitted hulk can have something like 33k ehp


My pleasure.
3 t2 strips
Meta 4 MSE, 2x T2 Invulns, t2 em resist amp
T2 DCU, T2 MAPC
2 X CFDEs




I just tried that in EFT.
How the hell you fitted 2 medium shield extenders QuestionQuestionQuestion
i used all lvl5 skills profile and cant even fit 2 MSE I... only them and t2 strips and power grid is on 79/ 43,75...[/quote]

Only 1 meta 4 MSE, and you need a PG6 implant. That gives 60.75/61.1
Dropping the implant gives 60.75/58.75 or 4% short on PG.
Kiwi Momaki
Doomheim
#63 - 2012-04-09 22:40:00 UTC
Ioci wrote:
masternerdguy wrote:
Ioci wrote:
Metal Icarus wrote:
I could buy an old geo (old p.o.s sad excuse for a vehicle) that barely runs, put a brick on the gas pedal, point it at the closest Ferrari dealer and let it go.

is that fair to the dealer?





And the Police would declare you a bad man and ignore you the next time they saw you down town with a shotgun because you hadn't really done anything, yet.
Using RL fails for a reason.

OP; Yes it's unbalanced. it's CCPs way of saying buy PLEX, blow it up in mindless PvP because that makes EVE betterer.


If you can't handle EVE you may consider WoW. There's a lot less pressure there.


If you can't hande PvP maybe you should go back to Age of Conan.


ROFL you are saying killing a hulk is pvp? ha ha ha you must have come from AoC.
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#64 - 2012-04-09 22:41:21 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
The point being you can make it harder and more expensive for them to do so, VV


Maybe in my old corp we were very evil, but finding somebody willing to challenge would just lead to us putting more effort in killing him Twisted

EvE Online portal | EvE markets tutorials
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#65 - 2012-04-09 22:43:32 UTC
Kiwi Momaki wrote:

ROFL you are saying killing a hulk is pvp? ha ha ha you must have come from AoC.


It is pvp...
Avila Cracko
#66 - 2012-04-09 22:47:11 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
There is only one MSE In the fit I posted.



Sorry...i see... Sad
its 2 am here and i cant think now...

Ill try in the morning because i cant fit it at all now... low on PG... Sad

and, please...
T2 MAPC is released in this last t2 modules pack?
because my EFT don have it (its older)

truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#67 - 2012-04-09 23:04:28 UTC
Avila Cracko wrote:

T2 MAPC is released in this last t2 modules pack?
because my EFT don have it (its older)


Micro Auxiliary Power Core II
Avila Cracko
#68 - 2012-04-09 23:06:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Avila Cracko
baltec1 wrote:
Avila Cracko wrote:

T2 MAPC is released in this last t2 modules pack?
because my EFT don have it (its older)


Micro Auxiliary Power Core II



I know... just my EFT is older so it have only T1 and navy.
So i asked is it released in this last group T2 module release...

+ i see that i need a implant...


So all in all you cant choose mid way between mining and tank.
Or full tank and maybe you survive or full mining and you are dead 100%.

truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#69 - 2012-04-09 23:14:02 UTC
Avila Cracko wrote:



So all in all you cant choose mid way between mining and tank.
Or full tank and maybe you survive or full mining and you are dead 100%.


Oh you can go with less tank but you will be softer. The tank provided can take the impact from a 1400mm tornado.
Avila Cracko
#70 - 2012-04-09 23:19:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Avila Cracko
baltec1 wrote:
Avila Cracko wrote:



So all in all you cant choose mid way between mining and tank.
Or full tank and maybe you survive or full mining and you are dead 100%.


Oh you can go with less tank but you will be softer. The tank provided can take the impact from a 1400mm tornado.



I dont see how you can.
you must get rid of something from low slot and then you loose ore DCU or MSE and tank is then on 25k and you are dead 100% again.

I still think something is wrong with design of mining ships. What?
And we are talking here about the toughest of T2 mining ships.
What about some under it... what about mac? its allways 100% dead.
And i want talk about T1 versions which are dead when rats appear.


p.s.
And yea... even if you have 36k EHP on hulk (full tank with orca boosting), if tornado gets second shoot you are dead again, and it can do it. What?

truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#71 - 2012-04-09 23:22:40 UTC
The refire rate of a tornado means you will not get hit a second time in most of high sec and 20k tank is enough to best any destroyer.
Lanasak
Doomheim
#72 - 2012-04-09 23:27:08 UTC
Kiwi Momaki wrote:
Ioci wrote:
masternerdguy wrote:
Ioci wrote:
Metal Icarus wrote:
I could buy an old geo (old p.o.s sad excuse for a vehicle) that barely runs, put a brick on the gas pedal, point it at the closest Ferrari dealer and let it go.

is that fair to the dealer?





And the Police would declare you a bad man and ignore you the next time they saw you down town with a shotgun because you hadn't really done anything, yet.
Using RL fails for a reason.

OP; Yes it's unbalanced. it's CCPs way of saying buy PLEX, blow it up in mindless PvP because that makes EVE betterer.


If you can't handle EVE you may consider WoW. There's a lot less pressure there.


If you can't hande PvP maybe you should go back to Age of Conan.


ROFL you are saying killing a hulk is pvp? ha ha ha you must have come from AoC.


i'm glad that this hisec miner is here to set us straight on what is and isn't pvp
KnowUsByTheDead
Sunlight...Through The Blight.
#73 - 2012-04-09 23:27:29 UTC
Dbars Grinding wrote:
i just had to spend my last 20 dollars to buy a plex for a new hulk. Now i will have to go hungry for a few days. Thx CCP for making a terrible game.


Well that is merely your own stupidity. Dont blame CCP for making you go hungry. You bought the damn PLEX. 'Tard.

Once you realize what a joke everything is, being the comedian is the only thing that makes sense.
Kattshiro
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#74 - 2012-04-09 23:28:53 UTC
Dbars Grinding wrote:
i just had to spend my last 20 dollars to buy a plex for a new hulk. Now i will have to go hungry for a few days. Thx CCP for making a terrible game.



You have made poor life decisions... Dont blame others for your **** up... Own up.

I know you're exaggerating but attempting to punish others for personal mistakes angers me.
Avila Cracko
#75 - 2012-04-09 23:34:42 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
The refire rate of a tornado means you will not get hit a second time in most of high sec and 20k tank is enough to best any destroyer.



As i know, didn't try fit because i did not upgrade EFT... Ugh
Tornado can get second shoot after cca 18 sec so they can manage it...
Especially if they call concord in some other belt (add warp time).

truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth.
Luba Cibre
Global Song Setup
#76 - 2012-04-09 23:47:37 UTC
Avila Cracko wrote:
Malcanis wrote:
Avila Cracko wrote:
Malcanis wrote:
Avila Cracko wrote:

If you fit your Hulk for EHP and not max yield you can you will still die from one Tornado.
That's not balanced at all.
If you fit your hulk with shield rigs, shield buffer mids and one Damage Controls in low you should be safe for ganking.


A full tank fitted hulk can have something like 33k ehp


Please, please, please give mi that fit... Roll
subtract like 10k and you have your number.


My pleasure.
3 t2 strips
Meta 4 MSE, 2x T2 Invulns, t2 em resist amp
T2 DCU, T2 MAPC
2 X CFDEs

My EFT shows 36933 Ehp vs omni damage type with the orca having a mining mindlink, worst is vs thermal. You get 39651 if you give the orca pilot a shield mindlink but then you might a well use a vulture

A boosting tengu takes it to 42788....



I just tried that in EFT.
How the hell you fitted 2 medium shield extenders QuestionQuestionQuestion
i used all lvl5 skills profile and cant even fit 2 MSE I... only them and t2 strips and power grid is on 79/ 43,75...

[Hulk, EHP]
Damage Control II
Navy Micro Auxiliary Power Core

Invulnerability Field II
Invulnerability Field II
Medium F-S9 Regolith Shield Induction
Magnetic Scattering Amplifier II

Modulated Strip Miner II
Modulated Strip Miner II
Modulated Strip Miner II

Medium Core Defence Field Extender I
Medium Core Defence Field Extender I

It fits with a PG3 Implant.

"Nothing essential happens in the absence of noise." 
Dbars Grinding
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#77 - 2012-04-09 23:57:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Dbars Grinding
Malcanis wrote:
[quote=Dbars Grinding]fk it. canceled my sub. [/quote

You'd rather quit than try a different fit?



a different fit to make even less isk than i make right now? Think i might keep this account open to post daily about how bad this game is.

I have more space likes than you. 
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#78 - 2012-04-09 23:57:42 UTC
Avila Cracko wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
The refire rate of a tornado means you will not get hit a second time in most of high sec and 20k tank is enough to best any destroyer.



As i know, didn't try fit because i did not upgrade EFT... Ugh
Tornado can get second shoot after cca 18 sec so they can manage it...
Especially if they call concord in some other belt (add warp time).


In 0.7 space concord will be in the belt in around 10 seconds. At most you can get 2 vollies off in 0.5 which is tankable. There is a damn good reason why in the ice interdiction we would dump 4 to 5 tempests on a supertank hulk. The damn things could soak up 3 vollies and laugh as concord put their fist through our heads.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#79 - 2012-04-10 00:00:00 UTC
Dbars Grinding wrote:



a different fit to make even less isk than i make right now?


Your choice, defence or more isk.
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#80 - 2012-04-10 00:03:38 UTC
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
Malcanis wrote:
Btw did you know that 1400mm arty has truly atrocious tracking? Try orbiting your can at 2500m or so. It makes a surprising difference.


Hmm I tried it and it works like a charm. I did not even put a script.
Also, I tried the opposite, that is being the guy orbiting the can. Takes a LIFETIME to invert direction and align to station / safe spot, so non afk mining becomes much less useful.



Lyron-Baktos wrote:
Get a friend or two to escort you while you mine. One decent battlecruiser probably would have scared off the attackers or at least possibly give you a bit of time to make your escape.


Bad suggestion.

1) Friends don't generally stick to a pathetic exhumer for 8 hours a day. They can give you an hand some times but it's too much to do it every day. Also, the already low income per account becomes factually split in half.

2) Mercs, some hire them. I see them every day. They want good money to sit there for the whole day of course and mining income <> incursion income. Plus - and this will become a LOT more evident with the new wardec system - mercs are basically useless for this.

The suicide ganker goes close to target in a cloakie, then warps in 2 catalysts / whatever required to alpha or quasi-alpha the target. Then spams warp to celestial. The merc can do just so much to avoid the target death. When the new wardecs system will be in place it'll be the same: you spend the money to pay the mercs yet you *still* cannot leave the station because you'll still be popped in anything fragile (like industrial ships). The wardeccer objective - having kills and disrupting the corporation - will perfectly work even with mercs around. Mercs will just eventually insure revenge but disruption is still unavoidable.
In the new system have i.e. Orca + 4 macks. You get wardec. Even with mercs around, the wardeccing corp WILL just come in with 2 disco battleships and WILL melt the macks => defending mercs will be useless => corp is disrupted with no defense even if they abide to the new rules and pay mercs.

3) One decent BC won't save anybody from an expendable ship scram put on the target.
If somebody REALLY wants to screw your operation they WILL. You can pay all the money you want, you can fit whatever you want, you can hire whoever you want, you WILL be disrupted.


Give it few days and people will learn to stay docked in stations again and to fly completely crap fittings for maxed yield.
Outside Hulkageddon, being max yield fitted will vastly, massively outpace the loss of revenue you have by pretending an exhumer can resist a real attack and fitting it like a T80 tank gear... Hyunday.


I agree that hiring mercs isn't likely to save you from a suicide gank.

Trying to mine while at war is another topic entirely.

First, if you are under a war dec worrisome enough to hire merc's you shouldn't be mining to begin with. You should be prepared to assist your merc's in ending the war dec.

Second, if your mercs assure you that their scouts can alert you before any war targets enter system, and IF they don't mind you playing target, that's fine. Get assurances. Then fit your Hulks to ensure you can get your butt out of the belt when the scout alerts you. Even then you need to be aware that the people at war with you are perfectly capable of suicide ganking you with neutral alts.

Again, merc use vs suicide gank and merc use vs war dec are two completely different things. Either way, you should be prepared to participate on your own behalf as best you can unless your mercs request otherwise.

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