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Do Sensor Dampeners need buffing?

Author
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#21 - 2012-04-11 14:34:06 UTC
FT Diomedes wrote:
No, but the ships that specialize in them do need buffing.


Exactly.

(and also the gang link bonuses)

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016

Roime
Mea Culpa.
Shadow Cartel
#22 - 2012-04-11 14:56:34 UTC
CCP Soundwave has stated exactly the same. They will look at the damping ships, he didn't specify when, but I wouldn't be surprised if they got fixed already in Inferno.

.

Mister Kwong
Doomheim
#23 - 2012-04-11 14:57:41 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
FT Diomedes wrote:
No, but the ships that specialize in them do need buffing.


Exactly.

(and also the gang link bonuses)


What other buffing do the T2 Gallente recons need? They already get a 5% bonus to Remote Sensor Dampener effectiveness per level. Unless you think they need a higher bonus?

Can you be more specific about the gang link bonuses?

I will consider putting this up on Assembly Hall once I get more information. Gallente can be more relevant especially with all these sniping Tier 3 gangs running around
Roime
Mea Culpa.
Shadow Cartel
#24 - 2012-04-11 15:25:55 UTC
Yes, higher bonus is needed. 7,5-10% at least imo. Probably even higher for the T2 ships.

Not directly comparable of course, but Falcon gets a whopping 30% per level to ECM strength.

Main point here is to make damping multiple targets a viable option, and also damp targets enough to force them closer to blaster range.

I find it also a bit awkward that the Gallente recons somehow don't have the best drone capabilities.

.

FT Diomedes
The Graduates
#25 - 2012-04-12 02:23:54 UTC  |  Edited by: FT Diomedes
I agree that those ships need a higher bonus to damps as their buff. Something that could make them a force multiplier on the dampening front would be awesome.

I would love to see the information warfare links get some love too.

CCP should add more NPC 0.0 space to open it up and liven things up: the Stepping Stones project.

Trinkets friend
Sudden Buggery
Sending Thots And Players
#26 - 2012-04-12 02:52:14 UTC
I've done the math on this before, in other threads, but basically it breaks down to this:
You need 4 bonused damps to knock a Drake's targeting range down far enough it becomes putty in your hands. Ergo, you deploy a single Lachesis to knock out one ship. Compare to a Falcon which can effectively permajam multiple targets.

Your sensor damps with res scripts can make life hell for BS's. But as for damping off Logis? Only if the Logi is actually working to rep sig-tanking AHACs or other low-sig targets. Versus a BS, a Lachesis full of res damps turns a Logi's lock time from 1.2s to...2.3s. Hardly a difference considering you are blowing a full rack of mids on a single Logi. Same for their lock range; you take them down from 70km+ to around 30km by using 4 scripted damps.

The buff damps need is to around 10% per level to effectiveness (in real terms, 2.1%). Eg, right now an Imicus gets 21% range dampening on a SD. Lachesis gets 26.1% at level 5. Wow, more power to the guy who spend 4 weeks getting recon ships to 5.

At 10% per level you would have a base range dampening modifier of 30.5%. You could affect these various ships thusly, with one unscripted dampener:
Drake - 72km -> 50.4km (still greater than your dissy range of 40km)
Cane - 56km --> 39km (whee! it works)
Abbadon - 100 --> 70km (ruh roh)

Scripting the dampener would then result in zomg awesome dampening, but even if you double it to 60% effectiveness per damp your Abbadon without a SeBo would be able to shoot a Lachesis which was pointing it. Etcetera.

Right now, damps are effective only versus T1 cruisers, a couple of BC's (eg, Cyclone, Brutix, Prophecy) and frigates.
FT Diomedes
The Graduates
#27 - 2012-04-12 03:13:38 UTC
Trinkets friend wrote:
Good stuff


Good post.

CCP should add more NPC 0.0 space to open it up and liven things up: the Stepping Stones project.

Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#28 - 2012-04-12 03:17:44 UTC
FT Diomedes wrote:
No, but the ships that specialize in them do need buffing.
Not empty-quoting.

Making damps universally better would make them horribly annoying, but right now, they're universally horrid, including on the ships where they are supposed to be really good… and that's a problem.
SuccessfulBlackMan SBM
Doomheim
#29 - 2012-04-12 05:02:06 UTC
Back then, Damps were overpowered and just like ECM was put on every ship.

Unlike ECM where things are chance based, Damps will work 100% of the time within their optimal range. So you can't buff damps too much otherwise you'll just turn it into another ECM.
FT Diomedes
The Graduates
#30 - 2012-04-12 05:07:38 UTC
SuccessfulBlackMan SBM wrote:
Back then, Damps were overpowered and just like ECM was put on every ship.

Unlike ECM where things are chance based, Damps will work 100% of the time within their optimal range. So you can't buff damps too much otherwise you'll just turn it into another ECM.


Right, this is why it is necessary to buff the ships that specialize in Damps - just as the ECM ships were specialized.

CCP should add more NPC 0.0 space to open it up and liven things up: the Stepping Stones project.

Hrett
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#31 - 2012-04-12 05:49:29 UTC
With all of the t3 snipers around, damps have some new utility. And I think a single scripted damp from a bonused ship on a cane/drake/T3 BC cuts their targeting range to the 30-40k range - essentially nerfing them in nano fights and forces them into tackle range. I agree that the bonused ships need their bonus bumped, but damps arent useless in those fights.

And the bonused ships also need a cap usage reduction bonus. Those things eat cap like it is going out of style.

spaceship, Spaceship, SPACESHIP!

Baneken
Arctic Light Inc.
Arctic Light
#32 - 2012-04-12 06:18:18 UTC
With the upcoming on-grid-warp-drives dampening is bound to get more interesting.
Gypsio III
State War Academy
Caldari State
#33 - 2012-04-12 10:53:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Gypsio III
Trinkets friend wrote:
I've done the math on this before, in other threads, but basically it breaks down to this:

Versus a BS, a Lachesis full of res damps turns a Logi's lock time from 1.2s to...2.3s. Hardly a difference considering you are blowing a full rack of mids on a single Logi.

Same for their lock range; you take them down from 70km+ to around 30km by using 4 scripted damps.


Try doing the maths again, because this is completely wrong. Or train some skills and stop using T1 mods, I dunno.

Base Guardian locktime on Abaddon: 1.6 s
With 1, 2 and 3 Lachesis damps: 3.4 s, 6.4 s and 9.2 s.

Abaddon base lock range: 110 km
With 1, 2 and 3 Lachesis damps: 51.6 km, 27.8 km and 19.3 km.

Add a link Proteus (and why not? Everyone has link Lokis these days...) and these become 4.5 s, 10.3 s and 16.2 s, and 39.2 km, 17.3 km and 11.0 km.

Numbers corrected to account for gang bonuses to lock range and scan res, and for skills... Roll
Shpenat
Ironman Inc.
#34 - 2012-04-12 12:49:33 UTC
Gypsio III wrote:
Trinkets friend wrote:
I've done the math on this before, in other threads, but basically it breaks down to this:

Versus a BS, a Lachesis full of res damps turns a Logi's lock time from 1.2s to...2.3s. Hardly a difference considering you are blowing a full rack of mids on a single Logi.

Same for their lock range; you take them down from 70km+ to around 30km by using 4 scripted damps.


Try doing the maths again, because this is completely wrong. Or train some skills and stop using T1 mods, I dunno.

Base Guardian locktime on Abaddon: 1.2 s
With 1, 2 and 3 Lachesis damps: 3.8 s, 7.0 s and 10.1 s.

Abaddon base lock range: 81.3 km
With 1, 2 and 3 Lachesis damps: 38.1 km, 20.5 km and 14.3 km.

Add a link Proteus (and why not? Everyone has link Lokis these days...) and these become 5.0 s, 11.3 s and 17.8 s, and 29.0 km, 12.8 km and 8.1 km.


Interesting is that neither of you are completely correct nor completely wrong.

Trinkets friend took into account only recon lvl IV (with presumed 10% bonus) and probably lvl V in Signal suppression. No script applied. He applied it to the ship with lvl V long range targeting

Gypsio III took into account all current bonuses, so 100% from script, 25% from recon V and 25% from signal suppression. But applied it to the ship with no skills applied.

So in reality, current state with all lvl V lachesis vs all lvl V abaddon is (1-(0.17*2*1.25*1.25))*100=46.8km locking range on abaddon.

With proposed 10% bonus it will became (1-(0.17*2*1.5*1.25))*100=36.25km. All of that is without rigs.

against falcon with 150km lock range the ranges are 70km and 54km (ergo right now putting single damp on falcon which sits at 70km does nothing)

taking rigs into account we can go down to 39km and 27km lock range on abaddon and 50km respective 40km on falcon.

In my opinion giving bonused ships 10% per lvl would be a good move. dont forget that those calculations were done for scripted damps. SO the locking speed is unaffected.
Gypsio III
State War Academy
Caldari State
#35 - 2012-04-12 12:52:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Gypsio III
Shpenat wrote:

Gypsio III took into account all current bonuses, so 100% from script, 25% from recon V and 25% from signal suppression. But applied it to the ship with no skills applied.


oh dear Lol

Well spotted, I'll update my post. :facepalm:

I'll also add in basic gang bonuses to the ships being RSDed.
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