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T2BPO why they should be removed and how.

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Altalicious
JT Investments LLC
#1121 - 2012-09-12 20:12:44 UTC
Wow, shades, of 2004, 2005, 2006, 2007......

You know T2 BPOs are not as elite as you might think. I own 13 BPOs and only keep 3 in continuous production. A few I fire up occasionally and some I have not used in years. Why? Because they really are not worth much. If I make something and it doesn't sell I am looking at a dead resource. So that BPO sits until it is worth it for me to start manufacturing. That said though, the ones I do keep in production are very profitable. The ones I occasionally use are profitable but sales are slow. And I have one or two that just are not worth the paper they are printed on.

I do also build with invented BPCs but I really must watch the markets and see how profitable a certain item is in order for me to manufacture it. Some items, especially ships, have a very low profit margin so I really need to pay attention to the markets.


I am an independent manufacturer so I don't have access to some of the discounts that big alliance guys can get. (No tin hat here, just an observation). So when I buy I have to get my materials at market price. This does put me at a disadvantage so I have to be fairly selective on what I manufacture.

One last thing. I did not play eve for 18 months so while I was gone those BPOs sat in my hangar and were not utilized. I know of several people who did have BPOs and have either quit or lost them. There is not that many of them out there and they are slowly disappearing. Eventually they will become an oddity but not much more.
Pipa Porto
#1122 - 2012-09-12 20:58:37 UTC
Jorma Morkkis wrote:
Forcing other players to stop T2 manufacturing would be good. T2 BPO owners should be allowed to control T2 market.


You're just talking to make noise now, aren't you?

Where has anyone, besides you and Brewlar, suggested that?

EvE: Everyone vs Everyone

-RubyPorto
Jorma Morkkis
State War Academy
Caldari State
#1123 - 2012-09-13 06:03:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Jorma Morkkis
Pipa Porto wrote:
Where has anyone, besides you and Brewlar, suggested that?


It's a bit weird that you don't see how good idea it is. Because you're better player you are allowed to control how other players play the game.
Lara Dantreb
Reisende des Schwarzschild Grenze
#1124 - 2012-09-13 06:44:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Lara Dantreb
Jorma Morkkis wrote:
It's a bit weird that you don't see how good idea it is. Because you're better player you are allowed to control how other players play the game.


Another false assumption in this thread : who is minding about someone's else business with this thread ? Those who claim to change arbitrary the rules, those who ask for the removal to control someone's else assets. No T2 bpo owner has ever whined about invention, because most of them are inventors also and know the ropes to make it a profitable business

Want to mind about T2 bpo ? : start to buy a few ones and start producing/selling your goods. Then you may have some feedback to publicize.

---   Buying T2 ship bpos since 2005  ---
Jorma Morkkis
State War Academy
Caldari State
#1125 - 2012-09-13 06:58:45 UTC
Lara Dantreb wrote:
Jorma Morkkis wrote:
It's a bit weird that you don't see how good idea it is. Because you're better player you are allowed to control how other players play the game.


Another false assumption in this thread : who is minding about someone's else business with this thread ? Those who claim to change arbitrary the rules, those who ask for the removal to control someone's else assets. No T2 bpo owner has ever whined about invention, because most of them are inventors also and know the ropes to make it a profitable business

Want to mind about T2 bpo ? : start to buy a few ones and start producing/selling your goods. Then you may have some feedback to publicize.


I've heard that trying to do everything is bad for profit. Produce or sell, not both.

Point T2 BPO owners are making in this thread is that they want to get rid off inventors, because inventors lower their possible profit.
Pipa Porto
#1126 - 2012-09-13 07:06:34 UTC
Jorma Morkkis wrote:
I've heard that trying to do everything is bad for profit. Produce or sell, not both.


wat

Jorma Morkkis wrote:
Point T2 BPO owners are making in this thread is that they want to get rid off inventors, because inventors lower their possible profit.


Where has anybody in this thread* said that? Quote and Link.


*aside from you and Brewlar in sad attempts at setting up straw men to argue against

EvE: Everyone vs Everyone

-RubyPorto
Lara Dantreb
Reisende des Schwarzschild Grenze
#1127 - 2012-09-13 07:09:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Lara Dantreb
Jorma Morkkis wrote:
I've heard that trying to do everything is bad for profit. Produce or sell, not both.

Point T2 BPO owners are making in this thread is that they want to get rid off inventors, because inventors lower their possible profit.


Invention is by CCP design to minor T2 BPOs profit : invention happily ended the times when cap recharger 2 worthed 20 Mil. Invention is an anti-trust process.

There is no problem with inventors, I invented and produced thousands of ships, meanwhile producing and selling from my T2 bpos.

You can't control an open market with T2 bpos : demand and speculation are stronger levers than T2 bpo will ever be

---   Buying T2 ship bpos since 2005  ---
Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
#1128 - 2012-09-13 07:25:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Akita T
Pipa Porto wrote:
Jorma Morkkis wrote:
Point T2 BPO owners are making in this thread is that they want to get rid off inventors, because inventors lower their possible profit.

Where has anybody in this thread* said that? Quote and Link.

Well, the troll has a sliver of truth tacked on to the end of his ranting, inventors do limit T2 BPO owners' possible profits in any of the reasonably high traffic markets (they limit it amongst themselves for low-traffic markets).

That was THE VERY POINT of adding invention to the game in the first place (i.e. drastically limit or even practically eliminate the influence of BPO owner cartels by unbottlenecking T2 item production through the removal of the total monopoly on T2 production by T2 BPO owners only - and that remains valid even with a worse/slightly more expensive invention than it already is), so of course that much will be true as long as invention exists.
As Lara Dantreb just pointed out, you only need to take a look at Car Recharger II prices to see it in action - they actually sold for upwards of 30 mil at their peak (that was back when a 90-day GTC used to cost under 300 mil, so it's more like 150 mil in today's ISK, if you go by gametime valuation alone), and look how much they cost now (a pittance in comparison).

But... to jump from that to "T2 BPO owners actively promote actions to get rid of all inventors" ?
And not just in general, but in THIS thread ?
That takes L5 in tinfoilhat mastery to even begin to claim !

P.S. I'm going to mirror the "quote and link" request.

Akita T evewiki profile | | | Build your own EVE-ready PC
Pipa Porto
#1129 - 2012-09-13 07:42:27 UTC
Akita T wrote:
Well, the troll has a sliver of truth tacked on to the end of his ranting, inventors do limit T2 BPO owners' possible profits in any of the reasonably high traffic markets (they limit it amongst themselves for low-traffic markets).


Yes, Jorma did stumble onto the tautological truth that "Monopoly holders benefit from strengthened monopolies."

But, as you point out later in your post, that's not what I asked.

EvE: Everyone vs Everyone

-RubyPorto
Jorma Morkkis
State War Academy
Caldari State
#1130 - 2012-09-14 17:08:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Jorma Morkkis
Pipa Porto wrote:
Monopoly holders benefit from strengthened monopolies.


Exactly. Monopoly is always good for everyone. Even RL has proved that: nothing can compete against Microsoft.
Pipa Porto
#1131 - 2012-09-15 02:18:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Pipa Porto
Jorma Morkkis wrote:
Pipa Porto wrote:
Akita T wrote:
Well, the troll has a sliver of truth tacked on to the end of his ranting, inventors do limit T2 BPO owners' possible profits in any of the reasonably high traffic markets (they limit it amongst themselves for low-traffic markets).


Yes, Jorma did stumble onto the tautological truth that "Monopoly holders benefit from strengthened monopolies."

But, as you point out later in your post, that's not what I asked.


Exactly. Monopoly is always good for everyone. Even RL has proved that: nothing can compete against Microsoft.


First, learn to read. First rule of reading: The whole sentence is important.

Second, ever going to post a quote and link to back up your bizzarre claims?
Pipa Porto wrote:
Jorma Morkkis wrote:
Point T2 BPO owners are making in this thread is that they want to get rid off inventors, because inventors lower their possible profit.

Where has anybody in this thread* said that? Quote and Link.

*aside from you and Brewlar in sad attempts at setting up straw men to argue against



If not, stop lying.

EvE: Everyone vs Everyone

-RubyPorto
Jorma Morkkis
State War Academy
Caldari State
#1132 - 2012-09-15 07:48:57 UTC
You used word "monopoly" without knowing what it means.
Pipa Porto
#1133 - 2012-09-15 07:54:41 UTC
Jorma Morkkis wrote:
You used word "monopoly" without knowing what it means.


No, I didn't.

Ever going to post a quote and link to back up your bizzarre claims?
Pipa Porto wrote:
Jorma Morkkis wrote:
Point T2 BPO owners are making in this thread is that they want to get rid off inventors, because inventors lower their possible profit.

Where has anybody in this thread* said that? Quote and Link.

*aside from you and Brewlar in sad attempts at setting up straw men to argue against


Where's the quote and link, Jorma?

EvE: Everyone vs Everyone

-RubyPorto
Jorma Morkkis
State War Academy
Caldari State
#1134 - 2012-09-15 08:21:25 UTC
Pipa Porto wrote:
No, I didn't.


Then you should know that it's better for you as T2 BPO owner.

Have you actually read this thread?
Pipa Porto
#1135 - 2012-09-15 08:22:40 UTC
Jorma Morkkis wrote:
Pipa Porto wrote:
No, I didn't.


Then you should know that it's better for you as T2 BPO owner.

Have you actually read this thread?


Context. It matters.

Ever going to post a quote and link to back up your bizzarre claims?
Pipa Porto wrote:
Jorma Morkkis wrote:
Point T2 BPO owners are making in this thread is that they want to get rid off inventors, because inventors lower their possible profit.

Where has anybody in this thread* said that? Quote and Link.

*aside from you and Brewlar in sad attempts at setting up straw men to argue against


Where's the quote and link, Jorma?

EvE: Everyone vs Everyone

-RubyPorto
Jorma Morkkis
State War Academy
Caldari State
#1136 - 2012-09-15 08:26:14 UTC
Pipa Porto wrote:
Ever going to post a quote and link to back up your bizzarre claims?


Have you actually read this thread?
Pipa Porto
#1137 - 2012-09-15 08:29:32 UTC
Jorma Morkkis wrote:
Pipa Porto wrote:
Ever going to post a quote and link to back up your bizzarre claims?


Have you actually read this thread?


Yes, I have.

Where did anyone besides you or Brewlar say:
Jorma Morkkis wrote:
Point T2 BPO owners are making in this thread is that they want to get rid off inventors, because inventors lower their possible profit.

in this thread? Quote and Link.

Heck, I'll make this easier on you. Show that someone of substance said
Jorma Morkkis wrote:
they want to get rid off inventors


You're making the claim. Why aren't you willing to show the basis for that claim?

EvE: Everyone vs Everyone

-RubyPorto
Doktor Malinowka
Doomheim
#1138 - 2012-09-15 08:39:08 UTC
Jorma Morkkis wrote:
You used word "monopoly" without knowing what it means.


sorry son, but you`re the one who dont know what it means...

when every single player in the game can build what a T2 BPO owner can, you think thats Monopoly?
Jorma Morkkis
State War Academy
Caldari State
#1139 - 2012-09-15 08:52:31 UTC
Doktor Malinowka wrote:
sorry son, but you`re the one who dont know what it means...

when every single player in the game can build what a T2 BPO owner can, you think thats Monopoly?


Read the thread...

Like I said before... Remove invention and this problem goes away. Only owners of T2 BPOs should be allowed to produce T2 ships/items.
shar'ra matcevsovski
Doomheim
#1140 - 2012-09-15 10:17:15 UTC
Kara Book`s alt wrote:
Doktor Malinowka wrote:
sorry son, but you`re the one who dont know what it means...

when every single player in the game can build what a T2 BPO owner can, you think thats Monopoly?


Read the thread...

Like I said before... Remove invention and this problem goes away. Only owners of T2 BPOs should be allowed to produce T2 ships/items.


true, but we dont live in a perfect world

shar'ra phone home