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T2BPO why they should be removed and how.

First post
Author
shar'ra matcevsovski
Doomheim
#641 - 2012-06-23 13:24:41 UTC
Jorma Morkkis wrote:
shar'ra matcevsovski wrote:
Now you need even more subs/invention chars to achieve the same profit


Is there a problem?


its a problem for brewie´s argument, that the removal of the BPO`s would cause more subscriptions

shar'ra phone home

Brewlar Kuvakei
Adeptio Gloriae
#642 - 2012-06-23 13:36:22 UTC
Nope no problem actually great for the game. T2 Price will rise slightly and even increase T1 profits too. Removing T2BPO would be nothing but a positive for the game placing it back into the sandbox where it belongs instead of scripted by CCP and controlled with gifted legacy content such as T2BPO.
Krawdad
The Racket
#643 - 2012-06-23 17:37:11 UTC
I'm new to this debate so forgive me if this idea has already been suggested. I don't own any T2 BPOs, but there might be a way to compromise, rather than just removing them altogether.

What if these T2BPOs were given some sort of regenerating number of runs? By that I mean, perhaps a certain one would have 50 runs available every week, and another only 10 runs per week. The available runs would regenerate every Tuesday or something like that.

Those are just random numbers I threw in there, but ideally the number of runs would be based on what is an attainable number of runs from invention, obviously dependent on the item type. Also the time frame for regeneration could be something else, I just picked weekly.

I think this could help reduce the power of the T2 BPOs by limiting the amount of items they could produce, yet still allow the owners to bypass the god awful invention process and thus still be worth something.

Any thoughts?
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#644 - 2012-06-23 17:48:44 UTC
Krawdad wrote:
I'm new to this debate so forgive me if this idea has already been suggested. I don't own any T2 BPOs, but there might be a way to compromise, rather than just removing them altogether.

What if these T2BPOs were given some sort of regenerating number of runs? By that I mean, perhaps a certain one would have 50 runs available every week, and another only 10 runs per week. The available runs would regenerate every Tuesday or something like that.

Those are just random numbers I threw in there, but ideally the number of runs would be based on what is an attainable number of runs from invention, obviously dependent on the item type. Also the time frame for regeneration could be something else, I just picked weekly.

I think this could help reduce the power of the T2 BPOs by limiting the amount of items they could produce, yet still allow the owners to bypass the god awful invention process and thus still be worth something.

Any thoughts?


If they changed it to the number of runs available to inventors. they'd be massively buffing BPOs. The whole reason invention has killed BPO profits is that it can't be monopolized and an individual can run many lines of an item in parallel.

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon

Krawdad
The Racket
#645 - 2012-06-23 18:07:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Krawdad
I probably should have rephrased that part, but I was imagining the number of runs being based on some percent of what's attainable via invention. EDIT: With the exact percent being determined by people who have a better understanding of how this works than me.

That may still end up doing what you said, though. I'm not really familiar with the scope of the problem nor the breakdown of production from invention versus that of BPOs, just thought I'd chime in.

For now, disregarding the specifics I mentioned, do you think the idea could ever be used to achieve a compromise? Do you think limiting the production capabilities of the t2 BPOs is even worth considering?
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#646 - 2012-06-23 18:11:39 UTC
Krawdad wrote:
I probably should have rephrased that part, but I was imagining the number of runs being based on some percent of what's attainable via invention.

That may still end up doing what you said, though. I'm not really familiar with the scope of the problem nor the breakdown of production from invention versus that of BPOs, just thought I'd chime in.

For now, disregarding the specifics I mentioned, do you think the idea could ever be used to achieve a compromise? Do you think limiting the production capabilities of the t2 BPOs is even worth considering?


There is no problem. Low demand items have their demand filled (and price set) by BPOs, high demand items have their demand filled (and price set) by invention.

T2BPOs have very limited production capabilities. That's why they're a non-issue. A Hulk BPO can make around 30 Hulks per month. The Jita churn for Hulks is some 6,000 a month.

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon

shar'ra matcevsovski
Doomheim
#647 - 2012-06-23 18:47:54 UTC
Krawdad wrote:


For now, disregarding the specifics I mentioned, do you think the idea could ever be used to achieve a compromise? Do you think limiting the production capabilities of the t2 BPOs is even worth considering?


thats how it is right now, dude...with just ONE invention char you can out-perform any T2 BPO by the pure number that you can build. If you want to read up, Akita actually didput a lot of effort into sheets and did the numbers very carefull with the result that T2 BPO`s are no Problem for Inventions

tbh. at the moment its just about beeing bu**hurt and 1-2 desperate haters that simply ignore all facts and numbers and just want them removed JUST to win this argument, justified or not.

the other thing is that brewlar keeps saying that most or many BPO`s were gifted to certain players wich would really just be bull** and I think nobody would argue that these players along with their donators should be fined/banned. Allthough, so far we havent seen any proof of that, yet.

shar'ra phone home

Kara Books
Deal with IT.
#648 - 2012-06-23 20:14:08 UTC
I still think Nerfing is not the way to go, if CCP could play this card into their hand to gain more subscriptions, somehow without hurting the T2 BPO holders, I think every one would be more then happy.
Kara Books
Deal with IT.
#649 - 2012-06-23 20:16:00 UTC
shar'ra matcevsovski wrote:
Krawdad wrote:


For now, disregarding the specifics I mentioned, do you think the idea could ever be used to achieve a compromise? Do you think limiting the production capabilities of the t2 BPOs is even worth considering?


thats how it is right now, dude...with just ONE invention char you can out-perform any T2 BPO by the pure number that you can build. If you want to read up, Akita actually didput a lot of effort into sheets and did the numbers very carefull with the result that T2 BPO`s are no Problem for Inventions

tbh. at the moment its just about beeing bu**hurt and 1-2 desperate haters that simply ignore all facts and numbers and just want them removed JUST to win this argument, justified or not.

the other thing is that brewlar keeps saying that most or many BPO`s were gifted to certain players wich would really just be bull** and I think nobody would argue that these players along with their donators should be fined/banned. Allthough, so far we havent seen any proof of that, yet.


You cant,
Thank you.
shar'ra matcevsovski
Doomheim
#650 - 2012-06-23 20:59:52 UTC  |  Edited by: shar'ra matcevsovski
Kara Books wrote:

You cant,
Thank you.


LOL...did you really just double Post to get this one liner again? not as cool as you might think it is...


btw. talking about beeing specific... "you cant" does not really explain that much.
IF your refer to that 1 char cant out-perform a T2 BPO... please go ahead and throw us some nombers or a example (first time in your live).

shar'ra phone home

Ore Bunny
Tactical Feed.
Pandemic Horde
#651 - 2012-06-23 21:05:48 UTC
Kara Books wrote:
shar'ra matcevsovski wrote:
Krawdad wrote:


For now, disregarding the specifics I mentioned, do you think the idea could ever be used to achieve a compromise? Do you think limiting the production capabilities of the t2 BPOs is even worth considering?


thats how it is right now, dude...with just ONE invention char you can out-perform any T2 BPO by the pure number that you can build. If you want to read up, Akita actually didput a lot of effort into sheets and did the numbers very carefull with the result that T2 BPO`s are no Problem for Inventions

tbh. at the moment its just about beeing bu**hurt and 1-2 desperate haters that simply ignore all facts and numbers and just want them removed JUST to win this argument, justified or not.

the other thing is that brewlar keeps saying that most or many BPO`s were gifted to certain players wich would really just be bull** and I think nobody would argue that these players along with their donators should be fined/banned. Allthough, so far we havent seen any proof of that, yet.


You cant,
Thank you.


so cool, lol
Kara Books
Deal with IT.
#652 - 2012-06-23 21:12:15 UTC
shar'ra matcevsovski wrote:
Kara Books wrote:

You cant,
Thank you.


LOL...did you really just double Post to get this one liner again? not as cool as you might think it is...


btw. talking about beeing specific... "you cant" does not really explain that much.
IF your refer to that 1 char cant out-perform a T2 BPO... please go ahead and throw us some nombers or a example (first time in your live).


Dude, do you want me to switch sides? are we that bored?
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#653 - 2012-06-23 21:51:08 UTC  |  Edited by: RubyPorto
Kara Books wrote:
I still think Nerfing is not the way to go, if CCP could play this card into their hand to gain more subscriptions, somehow without hurting the T2 BPO holders, I think every one would be more then happy.


Nobody subscribes to do T2 manufacture. Nobody leaves because of BPOs (if they did, we'd be rid of Brewlar's plague).

Best way to nerf T2BPOs: Fix the invention click-fest interface. That would kill a whole lot of the convenience that is BPOs biggest selling point.

(And it wouldn't invite CCP to massively fuck the system up like they have every time they've touched anything related to T2 manufacture *cough*Tech*cough*PI Release*cough*POSes*cough*)

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon

Tarryn Nightstorm
Hellstar Towing and Recovery
#654 - 2012-06-24 11:28:10 UTC
Brewlar Kuvakei wrote:
Nope no problem actually great for the game. T2 Price will rise slightly and even increase T1 profits too. Removing T2BPO would be nothing but a positive for the game placing it back into the sandbox where it belongs instead of scripted by CCP and controlled with gifted legacy content such as T2BPO.



Oh, for ****'s sake, will you just go away.

Star Wars: the Old Republic may not be EVE. But I'll take the sound of dual blaster-pistols over "NURVV CLAOKING NAOW!!!11oneone!!" any day of the week.

Salo Aldeland
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#655 - 2012-06-25 13:42:58 UTC
Akita T wrote:

To Brewlar Kuvakei, it looks like "UNACCEPTABLE levels of unfairness" because he can't accept radically different production chain methods for the exact same items, and because he feels too many of the current owners (for HIS taste) have obtained the BPOs as too much of a good deal (in his opinion), so he is perfectly willing to sacrifice the older alternative production method in pursuit of that illusory fairness, and damn the consequences.
He used to agree that buffing invention to further limit the advantage of BPOs would be a decent middle ground concession, but he dropped that much more CCP-palatable alternative a short while after. I can't help but suspect that he doesn't actually want to achieve anything practically achievable anymore, but is mainly just upset by the situation and is on a crusade for the Holy Grail.


He has a pathological hatred for pie. He can't even help it. It's a sickness. He needs massive therapy. Probably electro-shock.
Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
#656 - 2012-06-25 20:58:19 UTC
Kara Books wrote:
Akita T wrote:
And that's pretty much it, in a nutshell.
--T.

Mans got a point, Why arent new T2 BPO's being introduced or New T3 BPO's?
Clearly this is a problem, 100% fact undeniable in every way possible.

Not really.
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1519417#post1519417
Already answered in the very next post of mine under that you fully quoted, before you did the quoting.
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#657 - 2012-06-25 21:02:08 UTC
Akita T wrote:
Kara Books wrote:
Akita T wrote:
And that's pretty much it, in a nutshell.
--T.

Mans got a point, Why arent new T2 BPO's being introduced or New T3 BPO's?
Clearly this is a problem, 100% fact undeniable in every way possible.

Not really.
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1519417#post1519417
Already answered in the very next post of mine under that you fully quoted, before you did the quoting.


I think Kara's decided that she also really hates Pie.

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon

Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
#658 - 2012-06-25 21:11:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Akita T
On the other hand, there are good reasons to want to kill pie if you're a trader :)
Think of all the technetium cake that would be rising even faster and even higher !

P.S. Tinfoilhat moment, Brewlar is a Tech cartel alt ! Lol
CorInaXeraL
The Dresdeneers
#659 - 2012-06-25 22:03:56 UTC
After reading this...I must go buy a T2BPO and start building off it. Don't know if you've heard, apparently they break the game.
shar'ra matcevsovski
Doomheim
#660 - 2012-06-26 05:49:27 UTC
Akita T wrote:
P.S. Tinfoilhat moment, Brewlar is a Tech cartel alt ! Lol

no worries, I already had these moments where I thought that him and kara beeing actually one of the richest T2 BPO owners and want to save their investment for all time by using some weird kind of reverse psychologie that tells us, there arent any valid points against T2 BPO`s at all.

shar'ra phone home