Science & Industry

Good point CCP please reveal all facts figures and owners for T2BPO and how they were seeded lets do an audit make sure all T2BPO seeds can be accountated for. Nope ok? We can only speculate how many other gifted T2BPO's are in the wild, for sure it's more than T20's gifts and anyone who says otherwise is trolling. One reason CCP will not remove T2BPO is because it knows the backlash that will be caused by the way most of these BPO's were seeded.

BTW Vincent

You remind me of a child crying because your tv show was canceled hoping that if you cry long and hard some one will undo ir

You do know that he was punished and all those BPOs removed, right ? RIGHT ?
And it's not DENYING the incident, it's making fun of you claiming that there still are any extra "cheated" T2 BPOs "in the wild", and how one could go about convincing you that the number is ZERO (or better said, how trying to convince you of that would be futile because you would not accept any proof of it making excuse after excuse as to why you can't trust the data/process/people/whatnot).

Let me quote you:

Making fun of ^^^ THIS snipped of futility.
No, we can't speculate. We have to assume that number is zero.

EVEN assuming for a moment (for the sake of argument) that somehow some of the T2 BPOs that exist today would have been "cheated"...

IT DOES NO LONGER MATTER HOW T2 BPOs WERE SEEDED. The only thing that matters is that new ones are not being seeded that way anymore.

Once the lottery ended and the initial post-lottery post-invention pricetag RoI made using them break even, it is wholly irrelevant where ANY of them came from anymore.
Earned, stolen, cheated or any other source, it DOES NOT MATTER.
At most, you can argue that some people don't deserve some of the ISK they have, but that's a futile grasp at straws too.
You might as well cry that GMs could simply add a buttload of ISK to any account and make it look as if it was always there, I mean, hell yeah, it's pretty much the same thing anyway.

The market sets the price, initial cost (ISK, RP, time, or whatnot) is meaningless, only current market value matters.

CCP WILL ALMOST SURELY NEVER REMOVE T2 BPOs ANYWAY.
The removal is *NOT* ABSOLUTELY NEEDED and would create far more trouble (regardless of removal method) than any benefits their removal might possibly bring in any reasonable time frame. And shattering the trust that CCP will not do something THAT completely moronic and arbitrary, that will NEVER get passed over.

Any of the shortcomings you perceive regarding T2 BPOs can be fixed in different ways without touching anything regarding T2 BPOs.
Start preaching about the alternatives, because you're not getting rid of T2 BPOs.
Complaining you want them removed is many times more futile than me trying to convince you as to why they need nor or will not be removed.

Let's call it for what it is : he's just blindingly angry that he wasn't one of the so-called "lucky guys" who managed to get a cheap T2 BPO and wants to make everybody else suffer instead of improving the situation (while letting dead things rest), even if he's rationalizing this to himself (and to us) in different (logically flawed) ways using anecdotal evidence and wild speculations.
Logically speaking, there is no other explanation that fits, since he can't really be THAT dense (for the other logical explanation to fit better).

I pity him for being unable to see the vast superiority of any of the alternative solutions to his complaints that were mentioned already in here, solutions which CCP might actually one day implement in some form.
Instead, he chooses to wallow in his own anger about something he wants CCP to do that they will almost certainly never actually do, and especially not in the way he wants them to do it.

From a gameplay fairness perspective, effort is just ONE of the many factors that needs to be considered when determining an appropriate reward, and you want it to be the ONLY factor (or at least the overwhelmingly majoritary factor) ? WHY EXACTLY ?
Should any other activities that require little effort also be very low reward without exception ? If not, why not ?
How about slow trading ? It sure has hell of a lot of profit for minimal effort, why are you not crying about it being way too profitable ?
Or what about supercap BPO copying ? That's certainly minimal effort, in fact, the effort required is FAR LESS than the effort needed for T2 manufacture (no need to haul anything in any direction, unlike T2 manufacture), but it still pays quite handsomely (at a RoI comparable to or even better than just about any T2 BPO). How come you have no problem with that ?
Hey, how about T1 missions ? Don't they take quite a lot of time regardless of skills and fit but still pay a pittance compared to L4 missions ? How come you're not angry that they don't pay enough compared to the effort you need to put in ?
Besides, what the devil is so much effort in sticking something in a lab for copy, then invent, and then a manufacture slot anyway ? Why is that supposed to pay much more than, oh, say, PI ?
And so on and so forth.

Could it possibly be that one needs to consider many other factors other than just effort ?
Hmm... guess what, you do need to do that !
Now try to guess what other factors come into play when we're talking T2 BPOs.
And again, the way the T2 BPO entered the game is IRRELEVANT for this portion of the discussion.

Yet again the other factor of originaly owning a T2 BPO was knowing a dev, winning the lottery legit (very slim chance), winning the lottery via knowing the ticket numbers and BPO's numbers, getting a rat spawning a BPO T2 or knowing a dev.

Is this a nearly complete failpost I see before me ?

For 1 and 5, none of those BPOs remain, and it was a handful out of 10k+.
3 is actually almost the same as 2, and it would not have mattered much extra, if at all anyway, because it was bloody obvious the entire time which agents gave which blueprints and you could estimate how many people were working on them anyway by activity levels for appropriate agent systems.
4 was only there for a MINUSCULE period of time for ONE item type and was replaced with the lottery.

So, basically, nearly ALL of the current T2 BPOs were obtained through "method 2" which you claim was oh so highly unlikely.
SURE, it was unlikely for any particular person that barely worked some agents to get one offer, because there were far more players than blueprints and the lottery ran for years, but PLENTY of blueprints (in fact, practically, as good as ALL OF THEM) were being won in perfectly legit ways on a daily basis !

Inventors only determine price tag on goods with large buy orders for instance hulks, yes. On every other item that does not have massive flow the BPO owner is able to under cut all inventors, this is wrong and in need of correction either by sipmly removing T2BPO or by increacing invention ME and run levels so that inventors can undercut BPO owners. Decreascing the efficency of the T2BPO would also help placing it firmly below invention where it belongs.

Buff Invention beyond effortless T2BPO's and I'd be happy. If T2BPO's were unable to undercut invention all would be grand.

I have said this before. It gets ignored every time.

Inventors (like me) can build any T2 item they want, whether it has a T2 BPO or not. They usually choose to invent the items with the highest profits.

If an item is rarely invented, it only means that inventors do not WANT to invent that item.

If inventors do not want to invent a specific item, the reason is because profits are low!

Low invention volume is 100% due to low profits, not due to the existance of BPOs.