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Armor repairer vs Shield boosters
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Sonny Dang
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#81 - 2012-04-11 12:10:09 UTC
Hrett wrote:
Sonny Dang wrote:
Quote:
6/10 You almost got me there ;)


OMG how can i say this?? I'm not trolling :))

Please show me otherwise, the Domi can't pvp !! It's for missioning :))



Go here, scroll down to 'Kessah' and enjoy. I am not sure which one features his dual rep domi, but watching them all cant hurt.

In fact, here is a version of the fit from an excellent pvper, blobbed and killed by EUNI, no less.

And I'm EUNI, class of '07. ;)


Wow ... lasers on a turret boat ... idk what to say?

If a domi can tank like that then can a mega do the same?
Sonny Dang
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#82 - 2012-04-11 12:16:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Sonny Dang
Now here's another question: Do Minmatar ships have flaws? Because I can only name its strengths

1.Projectile turrets don't need cap
2.Turrets can range from close-range to med-range without loosing DPS because of high falloff
3.Good tank
4.High dps
5.Fast
DeBingJos
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#83 - 2012-04-11 12:24:50 UTC
Sonny Dang wrote:
Now here's another question: Do Minmatar ships have flaws? Because I can only name its strengths

1.Projectile turrets don't need cap
2.Turrets can range from close-range to med-range without loosing DPS because of high falloff
3.Good tank
4.High dps
5.Fast


I underlined the parts that are wrong.

Ungi maðurinn þekkir reglurnar, en gamli maðurinn þekkir undantekningarnar. The young man knows the rules, but the old man knows the exceptions.

Karak Bol
Low-Sec Survival Ltd.
#84 - 2012-04-11 12:24:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Karak Bol
Sonny Dang wrote:
1.Projectile turrets don't need capt


True, but they need lots of ammo and 10 seconds for a reload. The ammo is also taking the most space of all turret ammos.

Sonny Dang wrote:
2.Turrets can range from close-range to med-range without loosing DPS because of high fallofft


As soon as you touch falloff, you lose DPS. Minmatar guns lose DPS way more slowly than for example lasers, true, but they lose nontheless. On the other hand, amarr can project full DPS over considerably longer ranges. Minmatar DPS is harder to calculate for an FC than Amarr guns.

Sonny Dang wrote:
3.Good tankt


Compared to what? Drake? Absolution? Abbadon? Rokh? Ratlesnake?

Sonny Dang wrote:
4.High dpst


Compared to what? Blasters maybe?

Sonny Dang wrote:
5.Fast


Well that ones true, although since the Gallente speed buff Minmatar isnt that far out anymore.
Sonny Dang
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#85 - 2012-04-11 13:22:12 UTC
I forgot to include "without loosing 'too much' dps". For a turret of that range, I think ac and arties do quite ALOT of damage. Blasters do alot of damage as well but they lack the range, together with the slow speed, it can barely hit anything. That much already shows how Minmatar ships are superior to Gallente in pvp. But enough with Gallente, are there anymore reasons why everyone flies Minmatar? Why do every single team in the Alliance Tournament fly Sleipnirs and Sabres?
DeBingJos
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#86 - 2012-04-11 13:25:55 UTC  |  Edited by: DeBingJos
Not everybody flies minmatar and you cannot compare an event like the alliance tournament with pvp on tranquility. Minmatar often fight at optimal + half falloff. This HALVES their EFT DPS.

Half is quite a bit actually! Try flying minmatar ships and then come back and share your experiences.

Edit for terrible spelling

Ungi maðurinn þekkir reglurnar, en gamli maðurinn þekkir undantekningarnar. The young man knows the rules, but the old man knows the exceptions.

Roime
Mea Culpa.
Shadow Cartel
#87 - 2012-04-11 14:18:59 UTC
BC speeds:

Tier 3

1. Tornado 281 m/s | 6.27 s
2. Talos 275 m/s | 6.06 s
3. Oracle 250 m/s | 6.56 s
4. Naga 244 ms/s | 6.81 s

Tier 1 & 2

1. Hurricane / Cyclone 206 m/s | 8.23 s
2. Brutix 194 m/s | 8.29 s
3. Prophecy / Harbinger 188 m/s | 8.89 s
4. Myrmidon 181 m/s | 8.73 s
5. Ferox 175 m/s | 7.82 s
6. Drake 175 m/s | 8.23 s


So slow, omg.

.
Sonny Dang
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#88 - 2012-04-11 15:36:48 UTC
Roime wrote:
BC speeds:

Tier 3

1. Tornado 281 m/s | 6.27 s
2. Talos 275 m/s | 6.06 s
3. Oracle 250 m/s | 6.56 s
4. Naga 244 ms/s | 6.81 s

Tier 1 & 2

1. Hurricane / Cyclone 206 m/s | 8.23 s
2. Brutix 194 m/s | 8.29 s
3. Prophecy / Harbinger 188 m/s | 8.89 s
4. Myrmidon 181 m/s | 8.73 s
5. Ferox 175 m/s | 7.82 s
6. Drake 175 m/s | 8.23 s


So slow, omg.



where is this from? this is certainly not base speed and this is certain not the speed after modules...
Roime
Mea Culpa.
Shadow Cartel
#89 - 2012-04-11 16:10:13 UTC
They are from pyfa, unfitted ships with all Vs.

Gallente is the second fastest race, only a tiny bit slower than Minmatar.

.
Zhilia Mann
Tide Way Out Productions
#90 - 2012-04-11 16:38:03 UTC
DeBingJos wrote:
Not everybody flies minmatar and you cannot compare an event like the alliance tournament with pvp on tranquility. Minmatar often fight at optimal + half falloff. This HALVES their EFT DPS.

Half is quite a bit actually! Try flying minmatar ships and then come back and share your experiences.

Edit for terrible spelling


Optimal + half falloff is more like 80% damage. Optimal + falloff is 50% (less a bit).
Karak Bol
Low-Sec Survival Ltd.
#91 - 2012-04-11 16:51:09 UTC
Thx Roime, just wanted to ask if Sonny and I are talking about the same Gallente Ships
axxeessee
Trade and Supplies Co.
#92 - 2012-04-11 21:07:52 UTC
I too, like to comment on plenty of things I have never flown in game (or even worse not even bothered to eft).

If you are going to fly active tanks, you should have links and pills, they double to triple your tank, they are pretty much prereqs for being able to properly fly active ships, not so much because active tanks are not viable without them, but because if you active tank you know you will get blobbed.


Now lets assume that you dont have those links, it just so happens that you cant fit multiple shield boosters on ships, its just impossible/not viable at all.


With that in mind, a HG crystaled Large booster cyclone gets the same tank than the triple rep myrm, and about the same dps.


Now just come and tell me how armor tanks are bad.


All gallente ships are excellent armor tankers, blasters and drones being pretty much the best weapon systems when brawling, thorax, brutix, myrm, domi and hyp are all pretty phenomenal at it.

As mentionned though, since this game has ship with such high damage potential, you need to figure out a way for your active tanks to be able to soak all that damage, and links are there for that. Comparing active shield with armor shield though is rather pointless since they both get pretty much the same values (when shield is using crystals).
Aranakas
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#93 - 2012-04-11 21:53:12 UTC
Sonny Dang wrote:
Now here's another question: Do Minmatar ships have flaws? Because I can only name its strengths

1.Projectile turrets don't need cap
2.Turrets can range from close-range to med-range without loosing DPS because of high falloff
3.Good tank
4.High dps
5.Fast


As said before, you made 2 mistakes:

Minmatar ships have rather unimpressive tanks and if they want to fight at long range, that means fighting in fall-off and losing significant DPS.

Aranakas CEO of Green Anarchy Green vs Green
Sonny Dang
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#94 - 2012-04-12 11:33:11 UTC
Karak Bol wrote:
Thx Roime, just wanted to ask if Sonny and I are talking about the same Gallente Ships


I'm talking about all Gallente ships, specifically those that were made for active tanking such as the Brutix, Myrm and Hype.
DeBingJos
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#95 - 2012-04-12 11:47:21 UTC
Zhilia Mann wrote:
DeBingJos wrote:
Not everybody flies minmatar and you cannot compare an event like the alliance tournament with pvp on tranquility. Minmatar often fight at optimal + half falloff. This HALVES their EFT DPS.

Half is quite a bit actually! Try flying minmatar ships and then come back and share your experiences.

Edit for terrible spelling


Optimal + half falloff is more like 80% damage. Optimal + falloff is 50% (less a bit).


My mistake, you are correct, but my point still stands.

Ungi maðurinn þekkir reglurnar, en gamli maðurinn þekkir undantekningarnar. The young man knows the rules, but the old man knows the exceptions.

Sonny Dang
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#96 - 2012-04-12 11:53:59 UTC
Quote:
Now just come and tell me how armor tanks are bad.

According to your argument, are you saying that we should all buffer tank when we don't have link or pills?

Quote:
As mentionned though, since this game has ship with such high damage potential, you need to figure out a way for your active tanks to be able to soak all that damage, and links are there for that. Comparing active shield with armor shield though is rather pointless since they both get pretty much the same values (when shield is using crystals).


Please don't add variables to the comparison. Without pills, links, hardwires, implants, etc ... (only taking skills, ship modules and ship bonus into account) armor repping is clearly inferior to shield boosting. 3 reppers with a set of repair supportive rigs (1x Auxiliary 2x nanobot) can only tank about as much as a single shield booster. At least from my experience.
Roime
Mea Culpa.
Shadow Cartel
#97 - 2012-04-12 12:10:17 UTC
I don't want to sound harsh, Sonny, but we are not fully convinced about the validity of your experience as basis for any kind of arguments.

So, please post the fits you are referring to, and we can better judge your statement "armour tanking is clearly inferior".

The facts that you are lumping all Gallente ships together (a race with drone boats and blaster cannons that differ from each other like night and day) and look surprised when told that Gallente is actually nearly tied with Minmatar in terms of speed, might suggest that you could be talking.. you know, out of your ass.

.
Sonny Dang
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#98 - 2012-04-12 19:32:03 UTC
Roime wrote:
I don't want to sound harsh, Sonny, but we are not fully convinced about the validity of your experience as basis for any kind of arguments.

So, please post the fits you are referring to, and we can better judge your statement "armour tanking is clearly inferior".

The facts that you are lumping all Gallente ships together (a race with drone boats and blaster cannons that differ from each other like night and day) and look surprised when told that Gallente is actually nearly tied with Minmatar in terms of speed, might suggest that you could be talking.. you know, out of your ass.


Honestly, I didn't start this thread to have anyone criticize about my experience or skills. I started this to gather different ideas and opinions about armor reps vs shield boosters. The opinion on MY part is that armor reps are inferior. I'm here to be proven wrong but so far none of the posts have convinced me. And don't take me wrong, I'm not raging or anything, I find all the posts very educational and informative. Keep it coming.
Zhilia Mann
Tide Way Out Productions
#99 - 2012-04-12 19:52:33 UTC
Sonny Dang wrote:
According to your argument, are you saying that we should all buffer tank when we don't have link or pills?


In any sufficiently large engagement, buffer tanking wins out. This is true of shield and armor.

In sufficiently small engagements, repair tanks can be made to do some very nice things and greatly benefit from odd support factors like boosters. This is also true of shield and armor.
Fredfredbug4
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#100 - 2012-04-12 20:07:47 UTC
A booster is something you turn on for a few seconds and then turn off.

A repairer is meant to be turned on and left on until the fight is over.

The reason is that a repairer uses significantly less cap than a booster of the same size. If you want to be cap stable with a booster then your going to have to pay quite a nice chunk of money.

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