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Wow CCP, you are really rolling the dice on the economy
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Obvious Cyno Alt
Doomheim
#101 - 2012-04-05 18:59:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Obvious Cyno Alt
I see all these changes with a warm feeling in my pants Twisted as I'm a dedicated miner in nullsec, so mineral prices going up means more iskies in my pocket, at least until the players do settle into a new balance. Hopefully this balance will take months! (probably not though)

I'd love to have the patience to play the market properly, but it's just too much brain drain.


And to this guy...

silens vesica wrote:
You are, of course, quite right that 'wealth' is a relative and subjective term. I define 'wealth' as "having the resources to be able to do whatever occurs to me, immediately."

By that standard, I qualify quite handily. Ultimately, it's my own play the concerns me, so that's all that matters.


Mate, while your perspective is quite correct, when compared to the wealth of other players, you me and almost everyone are indeed poor. You said something about being able to buy 20 BCs with fittings. Well I could raise you 20 BS fully fit while paying my accounts with Plex as I currently do (+/- 2bil/month)... and I'm poor by EVE standards! Granted that I have more than enough to play the game I feel like playing atm, but when compared to some players, all my assets/isk are a mere drop in a very large ocean.

Anyway, if you can buy 20 BCs, why in the hell didn't you go out and blow up 10 of them? :P (This was meant as a good spirited joke and not trying to tell you how to play your game :D)
Richard Aiel
The Merchants of War
#102 - 2012-04-05 19:02:50 UTC
Chokichi Ozuwara wrote:
Amity Lane wrote:
Tell that to Franklin Roosevelt.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Deal

Seemed to work out OK. vOv

This is a joke, right? The New Deal was an economic disaster.


holy crap someone paid attention

http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r188/buddahcjcc/SOA-3-2.jpg
DarthNefarius
Minmatar Heavy Industries
#103 - 2012-04-05 19:10:31 UTC
Alara IonStorm wrote:

While a valid perspective you also have to consider the Bounty and Incursions nerf.


There will not be a REAL bounty nerf because when you include Drone bounties the amount of ISK injected into the system from bounties will far exceed the 10% reduction IMHO. Unless I am missing something the bounty nerf was not annouced for April 24th and will (may) be later in the year. I expect in the month following Esclation bounties will jump from 26 trillion to 30-36 trillion if nothing unannounced is done.
An' then Chicken@little.com, he come scramblin outta the    Terminal room screaming "The system's crashing! The system's    crashing!" -Uncle RAMus, 'Tales for Cyberpsychotic Children'
s666ss666ss666
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#104 - 2012-04-05 19:16:31 UTC
As a drone region resident who has not been selling lately, i approve of these changes. Oh boy is my stack of plush going to be worth a bundle afterwords
DarthNefarius
Minmatar Heavy Industries
#105 - 2012-04-05 19:17:17 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Started training my mining skills again, knew they would come in handy at some pointBig smile


I'll start trainning my alts ganking skills I knew it'd become handy at some point EvilTwistedBlink
An' then Chicken@little.com, he come scramblin outta the    Terminal room screaming "The system's crashing! The system's    crashing!" -Uncle RAMus, 'Tales for Cyberpsychotic Children'
DarthNefarius
Minmatar Heavy Industries
#106 - 2012-04-05 19:19:55 UTC
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
Savage Creampuff wrote:
out of the crucible and into the inferno. life is looking good



and profitable. I pillaged some Jita markets for some easy profits later. Pirate


The goons will be seigeing Jita waiting for you to come out or your hapless 'customers' trying to come in to buy anything
An' then Chicken@little.com, he come scramblin outta the    Terminal room screaming "The system's crashing! The system's    crashing!" -Uncle RAMus, 'Tales for Cyberpsychotic Children'
DarthNefarius
Minmatar Heavy Industries
#107 - 2012-04-05 19:21:08 UTC
Roime wrote:
CCP is on definitely the roll <3



rolling like lemmings off a cliff IMHO ShockedBig smileBlink
An' then Chicken@little.com, he come scramblin outta the    Terminal room screaming "The system's crashing! The system's    crashing!" -Uncle RAMus, 'Tales for Cyberpsychotic Children'
silens vesica
Corsair Cartel
#108 - 2012-04-05 19:22:36 UTC  |  Edited by: silens vesica
Obvious Cyno Alt wrote:
I see all these changes with a warm feeling in my pants Twisted as I'm a dedicated miner in nullsec, so mineral prices going up means more iskies in my pocket, at least until the players do settle into a new balance. Hopefully this balance will take months! (probably not though)

I'd love to have the patience to play the market properly, but it's just too much brain drain.


And to this guy...

silens vesica wrote:
You are, of course, quite right that 'wealth' is a relative and subjective term. I define 'wealth' as "having the resources to be able to do whatever occurs to me, immediately."

By that standard, I qualify quite handily. Ultimately, it's my own play the concerns me, so that's all that matters.


Mate, while your perspective is quite correct, when compared to the wealth of other players, you me and almost everyone are indeed poor. You said something about being able to buy 20 BCs with fittings. Well I could raise you 20 BS fully fit while paying my accounts with Plex as I currently do (+/- 2bil/month)... and I'm poor by EVE standards! Granted that I have more than enough to play the game I feel like playing atm, but when compared to some players, all my assets/isk are a mere drop in a very large ocean.

Anyway, if you can buy 20 BCs, why in the hell didn't you go out and blow up 10 of them? :P (This was meant as a good spirited joke and not trying to tell you how to play your game :D)

See, there's that issue of perspective again.
I live by the perspective I stated - I don't really care what others can do, so long as I can do what *I* want. Which I can.

As I said - not vastly wealthy, but well enough off. What do I care if someone else has a bigger stack? Sure, I'd *like* to have what's in your stack, but it's not a pressing issue. If I had *half* my current stack, I'd be a bit worried, but even then I wouldn't need to beg or borrow, and could still buy anything I can fly, with spares left over.

There is no official "You win at EVE" metric - So I considser being able to do what I want to do, when I want to do it, while having a good time doing it, to be victory. IOW: I win. So what if some others have won 'bigger?' Conga-rats to them, and I hope they're having as much fun as I am.

As for blowing up half of what I could buy - I could, but that's not as much fun as using them to blow other stuff up. P

Tell someone you love them today, because life is short. But scream it at them in Esperanto, because life is also terrifying and confusing.

Didn't vote? Then you voted for NulBloc
Ptraci
3 R Corporation
#109 - 2012-04-05 19:23:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Ptraci
Alara IonStorm wrote:


Across the board prices are still rising and while that is fine for power players that leaves casuals and people without 3 accounts playing a much more difficult game of second job online then was previously coined for EVE.



Look at it from a different perspective:

BPOs which you purchase from NPC's are still the same price. Therefore BPO costs are now less compared to the revenue to be had from manufacturing - you pay for your BPO faster by building and selling stuff. Mineral prices are going up, meaning there is more profit to be had mining your own minerals rather than buying them from someone else on the market because it still takes the same time invested in mining to come up with enough minerals for ship X. OR on the other hand, there is profit to be had mining and selling minerals on the market. Trit at 5/unit is nicer than trit at 3/unit. Again the time to mine 1 trit has not changed.

Any way you look at it it's all good.

Who it sucks for are the incursion/mission runners, for whom ship replacement has gotten more expensive and for whom bounties (on level 4's anyway) have been reduced. But how often do you lose a ship on a mission/incursion anyway?
Ptraci
3 R Corporation
#110 - 2012-04-05 19:28:45 UTC
DarthNefarius wrote:


The goons will be seigeing Jita


Can't wait for the goons to be banned for breaking the EULA (thou shalt not try to break the game/intentionally cause undue strain on the servers, etc), and frankly nothing of value will be lost. Spoiled children need consequences. EVE is not "their" game, there are only 8000 of them, and most of them are alts.
Raven Ether
Doomheim
#111 - 2012-04-05 19:34:55 UTC
lol, no


the changes that CCP is making are long overdue and I for one, welcome them

Get lost OP.

The likes on the second post speak thousands of words
Gogela
Epic Ganking Time
CODE.
#112 - 2012-04-05 19:42:32 UTC
Ptraci wrote:
DarthNefarius wrote:


The goons will be seigeing Jita


Can't wait for the goons to be banned for breaking the EULA (thou shalt not try to break the game/intentionally cause undue strain on the servers, etc), and frankly nothing of value will be lost. Spoiled children need consequences. EVE is not "their" game, there are only 8000 of them, and most of them are alts.

Great beard of Odin I can't believe I'm actually taking a pro goon position on this... but actually you are wrong. The text you are quoting would, in my view,pertain to things like spamming cans/ships, sending chat requests (spamming, like a DoS attack), or using network exploits. If you bring 5000 dudes into a system to destroy everyone therein, that's not an EULA violation, it's EvE kicking your a**. By your rational, any large fleet fight would qualify participants for bans. They aren't trying to break "The Game", they are trying to break "your game."

Also, I think you are giving the Goons too much credit. We're talking about Jita. Jita is the center of gravity for the game. It'll be a fun s***storm but I don't think there will be ANY kind of lasting effect from whatever they have planned. It's going to be a salvagers dream tho' (if anything even happens, whole thing could be a troll)

Signatures should be used responsibly...
Obvious Cyno Alt
Doomheim
#113 - 2012-04-05 20:06:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Obvious Cyno Alt
silens vesica wrote:
As for blowing up half of what I could buy - I could, but that's not as much fun as using them to blow other stuff up. P


I thought that was implied, but after thinking about it, it was my bad on not including that bit. I did indeed mean go out and kill everything in sight until you get blown to hell! Cool But whatever floats your boat is fine with me Lol

Ptraci wrote:
Can't wait for the goons to be banned for breaking the EULA (thou shalt not try to break the game/intentionally cause undue strain on the servers, etc), and frankly nothing of value will be lost. Spoiled children need consequences. EVE is not "their" game, there are only 8000 of them, and most of them are alts.


Not happening mate. If it really did happen like that, I would, eventually, stop playing this game as like Mittani said somewhere, the sandbox that lured me to play EVE will be dead. I have nothing invested in it, never use Jita, barely ever go to empire space but I'm just waiting for the tears on the forums, just for **** and giggles :D

I have a alt in Jita (as probably everyone else), and I will certainly be a spectator at some point. It's awesome emergent content and CCP should just use it to boost marketing for EVE, showing the best feature it has, the sandbox/emergent content in all it's glory, just as it was designed to be.

Other games need someone (multiple people) behind the curtains to think up what's going to happen next month/year. Here it's up to us! There's no way to not love the balls on goons for doing this, if they actually go through with it. Oh, and I'm not a goon nor have any sympathy towards them, but I do love EVE with all it's bells and whistles Lol
Henry Haphorn
Killer Yankee
#114 - 2012-04-05 20:23:55 UTC
I'll ready my Catalyst be the time Goons start firing. Goons, fire away.

Adapt or Die
silens vesica
Corsair Cartel
#115 - 2012-04-05 20:25:22 UTC
Obvious Cyno Alt wrote:
silens vesica wrote:
As for blowing up half of what I could buy - I could, but that's not as much fun as using them to blow other stuff up. P


I thought that was implied, but after thinking about it, it was my bad on not including that bit. I did indeed mean go out and kill everything in sight until you get blown to hell! Cool But whatever floats your boat is fine with me Lol

See, here I was thinking you'd invited me to a potlatch, a wasting party, or to indulge in some other form of conspicuous consumption.
Cool

Tell someone you love them today, because life is short. But scream it at them in Esperanto, because life is also terrifying and confusing.

Didn't vote? Then you voted for NulBloc
Patrick Estemaire
Cosmic Puppet Theatre
#116 - 2012-04-05 20:55:01 UTC
Ptraci wrote:
DarthNefarius wrote:


The goons will be seigeing Jita


Can't wait for the goons to be banned for breaking the EULA (thou shalt not try to break the game/intentionally cause undue strain on the servers, etc), and frankly nothing of value will be lost. Spoiled children need consequences. EVE is not "their" game, there are only 8000 of them, and most of them are alts.


So you'd prefer a more restrictive game than the current freedom we enjoy in the EVE sandbox? Did the goons steal your ice cream cone when you were little?

I may be wrong, but when it's all said and done I think most people will look back on the Jita rampage and say 'Yeah I was playing EVE when that happened. It kicked ass.'
Jessie-A Tassik
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#117 - 2012-04-05 21:02:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Jessie-A Tassik
Montevius Williams wrote:
Vince Snetterton wrote:
You want to make changes for some kind of perception that the economy is broken.

OK, I get that. But nobody in their right mind would change so many things in such a complicated system in such short order as you are. I already posted a thread with the changes that are happening in the next 7 weeks, and now I read about the elimination of meta 0 items from loot drops. Yes, I recognize this merely moves the wealth from the mission runners to the miners and industrialists.

But are you planning on changing SO many things simultaneously, you will be introducing chaos into the economy.
Sure, eventually it will all settle and new equilibriums reached.

But at what cost? How many subscribers are going to throw their arms in the air with frustration and pack it in?
You might get them all back, maybe. I would suggest why risk it?

Slow down the process. Change things slowly, iteratively. Not all at once.
If a real life economist suggested making all these changes in such a short span in a 400,000 person economy, they would be fired on the spot. No one knows, especially you CCP, about where this is all going to lead. And many of us don't like change and uncertainty. No real life economy does, and Eve's economy is complex enough to emulate one.


If they are getting rid of meta 0 items from loot drops, that would be amazing. Stop letting mission runners bypass two professions at once (miners, manufacterers).



So the solution to ISK inflation is to reduce the product inputs of High Sec even more. That's not the way the real economy works. Jesus. I mean for people who ramble on and on about "player driven economy" they don't know the first thing about how an economy actually works. Yes, yes, let's FURTHER REDUCE the real product input of High Sec, that'll reduce inflation for sure!

But it does benefit Null Bears, so I suppose that makes it okay.

It will make, by itself, INFLATION WORSE.
Jessie-A Tassik
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#118 - 2012-04-05 21:21:17 UTC
Oh, and replacing drone minerals with bounties will ALSO make inflation worse.

Clearly the Null Bears are bent on "cornering the market" regardless of the consequences to EVE.

The entire CSM should be fired.
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#119 - 2012-04-05 21:26:21 UTC
Ptraci wrote:
DarthNefarius wrote:


The goons will be seigeing Jita


Can't wait for the goons to be banned for breaking the EULA (thou shalt not try to break the game/intentionally cause undue strain on the servers, etc), and frankly nothing of value will be lost. Spoiled children need consequences. EVE is not "their" game, there are only 8000 of them, and most of them are alts.



If CCP didn't ban anyone for the battle of LXQ (3000+ in one system) what makes you think they'll ban anyone for burning Jita?


Apart from, you know, wishful thinking.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Jessie-A Tassik
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#120 - 2012-04-05 21:33:37 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
Ptraci wrote:
DarthNefarius wrote:


The goons will be seigeing Jita


Can't wait for the goons to be banned for breaking the EULA (thou shalt not try to break the game/intentionally cause undue strain on the servers, etc), and frankly nothing of value will be lost. Spoiled children need consequences. EVE is not "their" game, there are only 8000 of them, and most of them are alts.



If CCP didn't ban anyone for the battle of LXQ (3000+ in one system) what makes you think they'll ban anyone for burning Jita?


Apart from, you know, wishful thinking.


If the Null Bears continue demanding that "only they" deserve all access to raw inputs, and CCP continues wildly caving to them, a ban know as "server shutdown" will probably effect all Goons.