EVE General Discussion

We have a winner.


Why do you think people (like me) have invested Billions (50B here) into minerals weeks ago? It's already worth 150% of it's original price.

The changes are good for the economy. It'll allow industrialists to actually earn a profit, and make mining actually worth it to make isk. People won't be forced any more to either do incurstions or lvl 4's for isk. Now they'll be able to do mining and industry too.

High sec industrialists are taking a huge, huge hit with the destruction of the datacore mechanism and subsequent transition to an FW based datacore production.
Further, minerals, unless spawned out of missions, are NOT an unending source like ice.
The belts have specific spawn dates and the Euro time zones have a huge advantage when it comes to mining.

You are going to see a ton of angst on the forums when that fact hits home.
The people who make money are the traders now, and in the future very high powered miners in the Euro TZ's.

Mission runners get hammered.
Datacore farmers get hammered.
Incursion runners get hammered.
People who do PvP in low end ships are getting hammered.
Industrialists will likely get hammered (don't forget, CCP is mulling moving T2 mfg out of high sec, but no hard data on that yet).
All non-Euro miners will be fighting for resources, plus we had the joys of a new war dec system that DO NOT favour mining corps.
All high sec miners have to endure Hulkageddon and who knows what ganking after that. It would be in the best interest of all null sec corps to permanently park afk alts in every high system that is asteroid rich, just to suppress any high sec mineral production.

All in all, CCP is decimating a lot of isk generation in one sweep.
A good number of the chars/accounts can't just turn on a dime to a new profession, even if they want to.
A significant percentage will just say screw it, and move onto another game.

Just a few observations

1: Concerning the profitability of High Sec vs. Low Sec

There is a reason why most Null Sec players have an industry or mission runner alt in High Sec to fund themselves. Do not confuse Alliance level income sources with Player level income sources This has been mitigated to a degree with anoms, but is still common.

2; The change in the Data Core mechanism is huge, and will be a boon to FW pilots if/when it occurs. However keep in mind that any T2 producer that does any volume rarely obtains enough Data Cores from their research agents to fill their production needs even now. End result, the price of T2 vessels will rise slightly (also due to the increase in mineral and T1 hull costs) but not as much of a percentile increase as T1 hulls do, and FW will receive a big boost. Current Data Core farmers may indeed have to take a serious look at involving an alt in FW, which I personally view as a good thing

3: Asteroids spawning only at down time will be brought sharply into focus, and needs a serious fix. However, increased competition between miners is not necessarily a bad thing. EVE could use more wars started by industrial corporations to protect their interests from rivals. It was one of the main reasons for the war dec system in the first place, and is currently rarely used for this purpose. Rarely will you see a more entertaining battle than one waged between players that are primarily speced for more peaceful pursuits

4: The current cost of vessels (both T1 and T2) are cheap compared to past years.

Do you remember being on a 3 month waiting list to pay 3X or more than current costs to obtain a HAC? I do.

Higher costs of combat vessels in the past did little (if anything) to dissuade combat, it merely had an effect on fleet composition. Lets face it, if prices double on a cheap T1 frigate or cruiser they are still easily affordable even by new players (who now have significantly improved income sources available).

Also keep in mind that the current insurance system was specifically designed to be easily adjusted to reflect actual ship cost periodically.

5: People who like to compare the profitability of mining high end ore vs low end ore need to take yield into consideration. Often mining Veldspar is a more profitable use of ones time, depending on how secure the area the high end ores are mined in. Also consider that if mining becomes a more important part of an alliances income there is also a higher probability it will become a juicier and easier to find target for roaming gangs. Perhaps high end ore will actually become the rare and valued holy grail of the miner that is was always meant to be.

6: Hulkageddon has had a minor impact on mineral production in the past, true. However consider that while the cost of the ships necessary to do mining may increase somewhat, when you scale that against the high income being constantly produced the miner still comes out far ahead of where he is currently

7: The debate of drone land bounties causing an ISK injection vs the current mineral injection boils down to how the bounties on drones work out vs the value of the minerals produced currently. If the bounties per drone are equal to or less than the value of their current alloy drops the injection of ISK will not be an issue, merely a boosting of an income poor en devour and a simplification and perhaps slight nerf of a currently lucrative one.

This

Oh, lest I forget:


You maintain that mining was the best option for new players before these changes (debatable when you look at PI among others, but I'll let it stand for the sake of the point), and yet you are maintaining that higher profitability makes the situation for them WORSE?

Seriously?

Wow.

I think new players will enjoy more of this type of punishment.

Because they all hang out in threads discussing the economy.

What portion of the population across all four sec status's did you sample to reach this conclusion.

How many of them have alternate farming accounts or buy plex?

I know I have been hurting since the price hike personally.

It wasn't an attack Alara, just an observation. Often we are in complete agreement, other times not.

As I pointed out a large number of people that engage in PVP regularly fund those characters with an industry or mission runner alt... so they do indeed have a vested interest in this, and potentially stand to be affected by the higher prices far more than those that rarely lose ships. I believe the reason we haven't heard more of an outcry from that segment of the EVE population is that most realize that the frequency of combat is not likely to be affected (partially due to increased income levels), however fleet composition quite possibly will.

Interestingly, we may see an increase in the number of T2 ships used in combat, as proportionally their cost will not rise as much as many T1 ships (due to the entire cost of a T1 ship being based on the cost of minerals, while in T2 ship production a large part of their production costs are from other materials.

Market manipulation in the short term will make life uncomfortable for some (I'm sorry it has made things tight for you) but as we have seen in the past it takes awhile for the economy to adjust (especially from early, wild speculation and market manipulation), but I wouldn't worry too much about long term effects.

With these changes, I can see the casual player eventually throwing in the towel because when it becomes work in a game, they would rather do other pursuits in real life. Personally, I have a friend that does some casual research and planetary interaction in high sec space. The change in taxes have been stressing her to stay with the game. A complete change of data cores to a combat reward will force her to leave. She has no interest in hard core player versus player combat even though she knew that was what the game was based upon.

So Eve becomes yet more challenging.

Oh wait - no, it reverts to being the challenging game it was a few years ago.

Eve is

Well.

... So are we bitching about the devaluing of ISK?