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The passive targeter and the active cargo scanner.

Author
Serina Tsukaya
Dropbears Anonymous
Brave Collective
#1 - 2012-04-05 00:07:18 UTC
I ponder as to how the logic behind using a passive targeting system that stops your target from getting a You're being locked on warning, then using an active system to scan that persons cargo without said person being able to notice.

Explain to me how it's possible to scan a ships cargo actively with them not noticing. How would you figure out what a ship contains passively? Look at how much light the shiney hull reflects? See what the ships speed is compared to what it should be giving an almost infinite combinations of substances.

Before you start talking about how changing it would be me care bearing and wanting to stop people from being able to sucide gank in highsec, but there's also an unequal equation here.

Both the ganker and the gankee have to prepare for the action, but with the passive targeting module, the favor always tips in the gankers favor. Whilst you could argue that it's the targets fault for having too valuable a cargo or something along those lines, and you would be making a fair point, i ask that you consider this instead: Where is the element of combat and pvp when one party isn't capable of knowing if he or she is threatened. You could always assume you're being scanned, but you can't ever really know now can you? If you're in a bigger ship, it's too late when they shoot at you, because that's the only warning you'll get, and you're toast. It's about as one sided as it gets.

I'm not saying remove passive targets, I'm just suggesting that passive targeting and active scanning may not make the most logical sense, and that it doesn't have a counter to it whatsoever.

Another thing I'm curious about is why it takes the same amount of time to scan a small ship and a ship capable of carrying fifty thousand such ships. Shouldn't a scan take longer compared to how large the scan target is? Picking out a target when it's blocking of the sun itself is easy, scanning through said target compared to a smaller ship should take longer because there's more space to go through.

I'd like you to comment about your opinions on the matter, and keep on topic please.
FT Diomedes
The Graduates
#2 - 2012-04-05 00:26:44 UTC
Serina Tsukaya wrote:
Where is the element of combat and pvp when one party isn't capable of knowing if he or she is threatened.


This is Eve. You are threatened the moment you undock your ship.

CCP should add more NPC 0.0 space to open it up and liven things up: the Stepping Stones project.

Xorv
Questionable Acquisitions
#3 - 2012-04-05 00:59:07 UTC
Serina Tsukaya wrote:
I ponder as to how the logic behind using a passive targeting system that stops your target from getting a You're being locked on warning, then using an active system to scan that persons cargo without said person being able to notice.

Explain to me how it's possible to scan a ships cargo actively with them not noticing. How would you figure out what a ship contains passively? Look at how much light the shiney hull reflects? See what the ships speed is compared to what it should be giving an almost infinite combinations of substances.


Explain to me how it's possible for airport security to see the contents of our bags, and how it's possible to Jump in a matter of seconds between stars in EVE? Answer these questions and you shall have the answer to your own question.

Ponder on that a while, before making another post.
Joran Dravius
Doomheim
#4 - 2012-04-05 01:42:36 UTC
Serina Tsukaya wrote:
I ponder as to how the logic behind using a passive targeting system that stops your target from getting a You're being locked on warning, then using an active system to scan that persons cargo without said person being able to notice.

Explain to me how it's possible to scan a ships cargo actively with them not noticing. How would you figure out what a ship contains passively? Look at how much light the shiney hull reflects? See what the ships speed is compared to what it should be giving an almost infinite combinations of substances.

You're making a realism based argument in a game where immortals control relativity defying FTL spaceships that can pass through planets undamaged with their brains. Not to mention the wormhole aliens and sentient drones.
Kasutra
No Vacancies
No Vacancies.
#5 - 2012-04-05 13:51:36 UTC
The counter to ganking is not flying ISK piñatas in hubs and through pipelines.

The time you get shot at isn't the time you should start planning about what you should do about being ganked, it is the time when your preparations against being ganked have already failed.
Illrean
Old Prospectors Roid Alliance for Harvesting
#6 - 2012-04-05 14:06:45 UTC
Personally I want to know why we don't have a defensive module against a Cargo or Tactical scan module.
I Accidentally YourShip
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#7 - 2012-04-05 14:32:15 UTC
Illrean wrote:
Personally I want to know why we don't have a defensive module against a Cargo or Tactical scan module.


Because miners and other suicide gank-bait players already fit their ships poorly enough without having a useless mod like that available to them to make it even worse.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#8 - 2012-04-05 14:44:05 UTC
Serina Tsukaya wrote:
I ponder as to how the logic behind using a passive targeting system that stops your target from getting a You're being locked on warning, then using an active system to scan that persons cargo without said person being able to notice.
The logic is that it makes it more difficult to spot that someone is scanning you.

…unless you listen for it.
Verity Sovereign
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#9 - 2012-04-05 14:48:26 UTC
Oh, so this game discriminates against the hearing impaired eh?
Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings
#10 - 2012-04-05 14:52:58 UTC
Verity Sovereign wrote:
Oh, so this game discriminates against the hearing impaired eh?

Mostly against the brain and common sense impaired, actually.

Accidentally The Whole Frigate - For-newbies blog (currently on pause)

Bent Barrel
#11 - 2012-04-05 15:21:06 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Serina Tsukaya wrote:
I ponder as to how the logic behind using a passive targeting system that stops your target from getting a You're being locked on warning, then using an active system to scan that persons cargo without said person being able to notice.
The logic is that it makes it more difficult to spot that someone is scanning you.

…unless you listen for it.


and that tells you who the target is .... errr ... how exactly ?

to the OP: don't try to argue logic here ... people use whatever benefits them (see the one example arguing real life vs fictional game above).
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#12 - 2012-04-05 15:28:16 UTC
Bent Barrel wrote:
and that tells you who the target is .... errr ... how exactly ?
It doesn't, but it doesn't really have to for the information to be useful.
Bent Barrel
#13 - 2012-04-05 18:19:05 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Bent Barrel wrote:
and that tells you who the target is .... errr ... how exactly ?
It doesn't, but it doesn't really have to for the information to be useful.


in that case you can simply assume that you are being scanned at each choke point .... (undock, gate etc.).
Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings
#14 - 2012-04-05 18:42:59 UTC
Bent Barrel wrote:
Tippia wrote:
Bent Barrel wrote:
and that tells you who the target is .... errr ... how exactly ?
It doesn't, but it doesn't really have to for the information to be useful.


in that case you can simply assume that you are being scanned at each choke point .... (undock, gate etc.).

And that's problematic... how?

Accidentally The Whole Frigate - For-newbies blog (currently on pause)

Uppsy Daisy
State War Academy
Caldari State
#15 - 2012-04-09 16:25:56 UTC
Illrean wrote:
Personally I want to know why we don't have a defensive module against a Cargo or Tactical scan module.


You do. It's called a cloaking device.
Biced
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#16 - 2012-04-09 22:09:33 UTC
Uppsy Daisy wrote:
Illrean wrote:
Personally I want to know why we don't have a defensive module against a Cargo or Tactical scan module.


You do. It's called a cloaking device.


secure container, plastic wrap. fitting a ******* tank on your hauler?
Voith
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#17 - 2012-04-09 23:34:18 UTC
Extender Drakes are the best Haulers.
Astroniomix
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#18 - 2012-04-10 00:09:53 UTC
Serina Tsukaya wrote:
I ponder as to how the logic behind using a passive targeting system that stops your target from getting a You're being locked on warning, then using an active system to scan that persons cargo without said person being able to notice.

Explain to me how it's possible to scan a ships cargo actively with them not noticing. How would you figure out what a ship contains passively? Look at how much light the shiney hull reflects? See what the ships speed is compared to what it should be giving an almost infinite combinations of substances.

Before you start talking about how changing it would be me care bearing and wanting to stop people from being able to sucide gank in highsec, but there's also an unequal equation here.

Both the ganker and the gankee have to prepare for the action, but with the passive targeting module, the favor always tips in the gankers favor. Whilst you could argue that it's the targets fault for having too valuable a cargo or something along those lines, and you would be making a fair point, i ask that you consider this instead: Where is the element of combat and pvp when one party isn't capable of knowing if he or she is threatened. You could always assume you're being scanned, but you can't ever really know now can you? If you're in a bigger ship, it's too late when they shoot at you, because that's the only warning you'll get, and you're toast. It's about as one sided as it gets.

I'm not saying remove passive targets, I'm just suggesting that passive targeting and active scanning may not make the most logical sense, and that it doesn't have a counter to it whatsoever.

Another thing I'm curious about is why it takes the same amount of time to scan a small ship and a ship capable of carrying fifty thousand such ships. Shouldn't a scan take longer compared to how large the scan target is? Picking out a target when it's blocking of the sun itself is easy, scanning through said target compared to a smaller ship should take longer because there's more space to go through.

I'd like you to comment about your opinions on the matter, and keep on topic please.

Last I checked activating a targeted module alerted the target that they have been locked on to.
Boomhaur
#19 - 2012-04-10 02:38:07 UTC
Voith wrote:
Extender Drakes are the best Haulers.


Personally I think the Damnation with slave implants and trimark rigs is one the best, or the Proteus with a cloak and slave implants along with trimark rigs, all setup for max EHP. Nothing like having a sig of a BC or cruiser with more EHP than a jump freighter, and a cloak you can warp in if you go with the T3. You have to be really unlucky/stupid to get suicide ganked in one of these.

Now the extender drakes, those are good too for price/performance and sheer, ahh crap a drake don't bother kind of mentality you may get from it's reputation.

Welcome to Eve. Everyone here is an Evil Sick Sadistic Bastard who is out to get you. Anyone who tells you otherwise is either trying to scam you or use you.

Trinkets friend
Sudden Buggery
Sending Thots And Players
#20 - 2012-04-10 03:00:27 UTC
passive targeter is awesome for checking out people's blinged T3's prior to "liberating" their A-types
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