Science & Industry

First rule of EVE : EVE IS INTENTIONALLY DESIGNED TO BE UNFAIR TO SOME DEGREE.
The particular complaint regarding the mere continued existence of T2 BPOs characterizing them as "unfair to exist" is very much akin to complaining that suicide-ganking is allowed, or that 100 battleships can attack a single freighter at the same time if they want to.
The question of whether T2 BPOs are "unfair" is a wholly irrelevant one, as they're SUPPOSED to grant an advantage.

The relevant questions are:
1) Would the game improve by ONLY removing T2 BPOs and changing nothing else ?
*1b) For whom ?
*1c) And for how long ?
2) How exactly do you plan to compensate current T2 BPO owners for the loss of the BPO in case of a removal ?
*2b) Would you differentiate between lottery winners and current owners that purchased them ?
*2c) How would that affect the economy in a domino effect ?
3) What else (other than touching anything regarding T2 BPOs) can be done to improve the game in the areas people seem to be complaining about when they ask for a removal of T2 BPOs ?
*3b) Would improvements in the output of invention (runs, ME/PE levels) in certain conditions not be more appropriate instead ?
*3c) How about an uncapping of all moongoo production from the fixed max level we're currently living with ?

If T2BPO were a ship it would have 100% resistance, be able to deal dread DPS while tracking frigs and having the speed of an interceptor.

''OK for sure but it can only target one ship at a time while inventors ships can target several.'' -Typical T2BPO supporter comment if BPO's were ships.

This is a good comparison to let PVP players know how over powered and in need of removal T2BPO's are and the defence T2BPO supporters give about invention being able to run multiple manufacturing runs at once. T2BPO needs removed/nerfed worse than the Dramiel ever did.

Would it, really ? Are you sure it wouldn't have 99.5% resistances, EW immunity, battleship DPS and tracking, titan sig and sigres, could only lock one target, no drones, the cargohold for half an hour of sustained fire, the speed of a freighter, and could not warp, jump nor pick up anything in its cargo 15 minutes after the last shot fired ?
You also forgot to say it would cost as much as a titan to build, would be unable to dock in stations, and would pay out only as much as a battleship if destroyed.

The desirable T2 BPOs pay for themselves in 4 to 8 years at current prices.
4 to 8 YEARS.
Even supercap BPOs usually pay for themselves faster than that, 2 to 3 years.
Quite a few T1 BPOs pay for themselves in 4 to 8 months, not years (and this is going to be extended to most T1 BPOs now that meta0 drops have been scratched out, and times to paying for themselves will most likely get lower too).

T2 BPOs have a crappy RoI, but they can handle a larger investment budget with ever so slightly less hassle than T1 BPOs (cap/supercap BPOs are more tricky).
For the exact same total initial ISK investment amount, T2 BPOs are one of the worst moneymakers in the game !

All T2 BPOs are really good for is low returns with medium workload on huge investments, for people with way too much idle ISK.
If you don't have a truckload of ISK you have no clue what else you might want to do with already, then SELLING any T2 BPOs you might have is almost always the better option, by far (and then, using that ISK to make more ISK faster with other non-T2 BPOs).


P.S. I do not currently own any T2 BPOs, in case you're wondering. Neither does anybody currently in my corp. And I'm not in any alliances.


P.P.S. On the other hand, I totally support a major buff to invention and an unlocking of max moongoo production amount.

May I ask what are your achievements in EVE as an industrialist ? You speak a lot about invention and manufacturing, but have you at least done something successfull in that domain ? What is your business plan ? How do you think you are gonna make the tens of billions necessary ?

I noticed you are insulting everyone in the forums , CCP, players, industrialists, but who are you and what part of the opinion of the players are you representing ? At first you should try to be a CSM to make hear your voice. Until then you are just ridiculous in a nonsense crusade

Yet again people who talk about ROI on T2BPO are idiots the ROI is instant T2BPO cost the owners nothing but RP and are worth billions of ISK. The ROI on T2BPO is instant and astronomical in account for the retaliative cost of RP.

What is the difference between a T2 BPO and a Capital BPO or some other high end blue print?

They are expensive to buy, can only be afforded by limited number of players, thereby creating a significant barrier to competitor entry. The difference is that practically anybody can compete with T2 BPO via invention, while the barrier to entry remains high with other high end blue prints. However that is not a justification to nerf them, it is the opposite, they are end game content is the justification.

In every other meaning full way there is little difference. The idea they were just given away is either wilful ignorance or a deliberate lie. T2 BPO were difficult to acquire, it took real work, to level up the science skills, grind the standing with science corps, run science missions to earn more tickets and exercise good judgement in the right science fields. Those that won something lost all their RP and those that lost swapped their RP for datacores worth tens if not hundred of millions of ISK. A pretty valuable booby prize.

Getting rid of T2 BPOs is an asinine suggestion, the last refuge the incompetent and lazy, that would set a dangerous precedence for the removal of other hard earnt advantages.

Most of the T2 BPOs that are worth anything (i.e. those of items in decent demand) have been sold by the people that won them in the lottery a LONG time ago, and have changed quite a few hands since. And they used to sell for far less ISK in the past. Just go to the old forums and look at the pathetically low prices quite a few of the early ones went for.

Besides, you're making the same mistake of "minerals I get from ore I mine myself are free, THEREFORE WORTHLESS" people.
Wrong, boyo, everything is worth exactly its market price.
Doesn't matter if you got it in a lucky throw, received it as a gift or purchased it way above market value... something that trades at 1bil ISK is worth 1bil ISK (plus-minus a few percents) regardless of whether you spent the equivalent of 1mil ISK or 1 tril ISK to get it.

If you choose to HOLD ONTO a T2 BPO you have that you COULD easily sell for 1bil ISK, then it's the same as if you had 1bil ISK and decided to buy that T2 BPO from somebody offering it.
It really is THAT simple !

RP have zero value, I hear.

Honestly I read his half way, and read yours to the end but your argument is still invalid I.E. has nothing to do with "The importance"

Your argument is truly invalid as you are incapable of seeing all sides of the coin, perhaps pretend to look for public sake.

its funny that especially you two choose to validate posts...

Kara...litteraly all of you arguments failed due missing knowledge about the game, like the T2 Rig BPO`s thing or these 87% etc...its just wrong. But excuse my ignorance if I missed something and put up a invalid argument, so please explain to me where I`m so wrong.

Brewlar, it is not an insult when its obvious that the problem your trying to point out is based in your personel missunderstanding of the whole T2 BPO thing, plus you seem to be very selective in understanding what ppl say. it might be the language-bareer or what so ever but you seem to purely ignore all point regardless how meaningfull it is.

But here is the thing... Considering ITT seem way more ppl to agree with Akita etc. that T2 BPO are not a problem (we even found out they are not T2 BPO owners) and even if not, over the last 6 years absolutly no CSM, NO GM, No Dev has even cared a littled about this. It is more than obvious that CCP just doesnt agree with you here and probably never will, so what do you expect from this lonely crusade, besides that people will troll you?