Science & Industry

T2 BPO's were a balance issue before the introduction of the invention system. There is no way to undo the lottery, most prints are not owned by those who won them from such. What you guys are really proposing is taking stuff from those players who have invested in these assets. At this point, everyone has the same opportunity to acquire these prints and they are not a balance issue. But all this has been said before. It does nothing to illuminate WHY you are complaining about a perfectly balanced game mechanic...

What this really comes down to, is that I'm better than you. In every way. You want my stuff, because I completely invalidate your efforts in this game. You go to and fro, completing your chores and working your ass off... with a dream of one day rising above the filth of your existence to the plain on which I reside. But sooner or later, you come to the realization that you are no closer to my reality than when you started. In fact, you are losing ground by the minute - falling ever deeper into the depths of poverty. It is at this moment, that you give up on your own advancement and begin trying to tear me down. You think "Surely this is not a failure or shortcoming on my end, but some unfair advantage held by those with whom I cannot compete." So you cry. You cry about T2 BPO's and high skill points and powerful ships and suicide gank mechanics. It's pathetic.

The simple fact of the matter is this: you are crying, while I am winning. You work for me, and no amount of whining or nerfing will change that. Get over it.

Most of your whining seems to revolve around a largely fictitious rendition of one scandal that happened five years ago and involved a relatively small number of not-particularly-lucrative BPOs which, IIRC, were recycled into the lottery at the resolution of the incident.

That's how flimsy your position is - you can't actually make any salient point, so the only option remaining to you is to continually repeat the same decidedly false statement in the apparent hope that doing so will somehow alter reality.

I have seen preschoolers throw tantrums over their blankies with more dignity than this.

If a T2 BPO's are a licence to print money. It cuts out a decent cost in the production of T2 goods and turns it into 100% pure profit. While a T2 BPO is technically open to the free market, no player can procure one threw means that currently exist in the game.

The Value of a T2 BPC is defined by the players ability's to produce them threw research, this value has real context since time and materials went to making them. A T2BPO piggybacks this value in a manner that no player can reproduce threw current game mechanics.

The only fair way to fix this situation is to give a value to the current T2BPO's and then add a means to procure a T2BPO at the same cost. This "Fix" would invalidate the invention system over time but it should be noted that the invention system still stands as a cheaper way to produce a T2 BPC, if the procurement of a T2 BPO was threw invention it would still keep the system valid.

Ultimately the biggest issue I feel most industrialists have with T2BPO's is the fact that we cant procure them threw the game and that they can have 0.1% waste while invention prints are limited to what ML's and PL's you modify them to have.


T2 BPO's are just another "ATM" CCP needs to fix in the game.

Not can, but have to. BPO owners have no other option. And their profits are limited.

im laughin im cryin and i dont even

If you want us to be able to create BPOs, you absolutely must have a degrading factor on them, else the market will be soon full of them. ME decreasing one level per day for example, or some other form of research upgrades. Maybe even degration on every research relevant stats of a BPO. Research progress and what was yesterday state of the art, is outdated tomorrow.

I like the idea, but you have to be careful about implementing changes to the market.

If you want to moan about how the T2 BPOs were handled & the terrible wrongs of them it should be taken to the Crime & Punishment forum. But the Crime & Punishment forum would require that the complaints have relevance and it's well past the point of relevance and into the territory of "feeling sorry for yourself". How dare life not be fair?

If you want to complain about how T2 BPOs shouldn't be in the game it should be taken to the Suggestions & Ideas forum. But the Suggestions & Idea forum doesn't bother feeling sorry for itself and it's residents would descend upon such a thread like so many angry magpies upon an ill-tempered cat. You can hiss and spit all you'd like, but they'll still drive you off.

I'm horribly disappointed that so much good sarcasm was so deeply buried in a forum post that should already be dead.

All "T2 BPO" posts in the Science & Industry forum are troll feed as far as I'm concerned. The most important thing these posts do is continue to provide a place for an old wound to fester & putrefy. They don't belong in the Science & Industry forum.

This, for the record, would not actually positively affect the profit margin of inventing Ishtars.

You would cut down the "BPO advantage..." and you would also **** your own bottom line.

Otherwise known as "cutting off your nose to spite your face". It's almost like nobody ever even looks at what they think they are "competing" against. You want Ishtars? Fine.

IIRC, there were only 10 of every ship BPO seeded. Let's assume that they are all still alive and kicking and being actively produced from under optimal conditions. With perfect skills, a +4% time implant, using a normal manu line (advanced ship manu lines have an additional wastage factor that cuts into margin) and 34 PE, it takes 1 day, 3.5 hours to produce an Ishtar from a BPO. So in a 720 hour month, a BPO can produce 26 ishtars.

So if they're all still in use, under those ideal conditions, and all of the ishtars are being delivered to market, that's 260 ishtars a month, maximum resulting from BPOs.

The average daily volume of Ishtars sold in Jita for the last year is 43.6, which means that under the absolute best conditions possible, every BPO that ever was can supply about 6 days worth of volume per month for this particular ship. When you add in the other hubs, it is far less than that.

Now at this point, anyone with the most basic grasp of arithmetic would say, "Hmm. I guess I really don't have to compete against those guys because they will run out of units long before the market demand is satisfied," and go about their business and make a shitton of isk doing so.

BPO whiners don't do that, though. Instead they fuss over the "BPO Advantage" and come up with "smart" ideas like the above that would actually cut into their own profits.

Increasing ME/PE from invention would simply mean that the price would drop to suit, but it's even worse than that: Since limitless Ishtars can now be produced at 15ME, THAT will be where the new price point will be set.

That means every inventor will HAVE to do that research to be profitable/competitive. By "allowing" ME/PE research to be done on invented BPCs, you are, in fact, FORCING ME/PE research to be done on the BPCs.

Know what that means?

That means you just came up with an idea that will completely **** your own isk-per-slothour by exponentially increasing the amount of lab time required for every Ishtar made.


I swear, no group needs more protection from itself than S&I.

There is nothing stopping the owner of a T2 BPO from inventing. My CEO has a T2 BPO, and does a large amount of inventing, just not for the T2 item of his BPO.

QFT. There's so much truth there, I'd almost make a sig out of it.

It seems like every other S&I guy thinks that changing the game to allow them to 'make more, and do it for less' will solve all of their profit problems and open the door to riches, when all it'll do is push down the market to fit under the new bar.

As much as most industrialists might hate the idea, the best answer to any S&I profit problem is to see more **** get blown up.