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the importance of T2 BPOs
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Stella SGP
#61 - 2012-04-07 09:26:14 UTC
Eva Volkova wrote:
you reply to mi post but you dont answerd mi questions.
i just think invention should given better items than BPO T2 because its more time consuming. More time= better results.

So please troll all you whant but eve has changed it allways is changing and thats good.

Ravens where number one but missiles change and get a nerf.
Vagabons pilgrims a nanocanes where a must but a nerf came.
titans are seem very powerfull and they have receive nerf after nerf.

Whats so important of BPO T2 that cant be changed in any way.

Ok lets keep it as they are but buff invention. whats the problem you have buffing invention?

- they should be a diference between using a 0me /0pe BPO and a full researched one.
- why not have a chance of having better BPC T2?. Better than a BPO T2 full researched. Its only a BPC and will run out but will give you something new and will be fun (like getting an officer loot in pve).

Lets make industri a better place. Lets static and with more change.

EvA

Actually all your questions have been answered, bottomline, there is nothing wrong with T2 Bpos and invention works as it should. The only problem there is, is your perception of the Bpos and jealousy.
Scrapyard Bob
EVE University
Ivy League
#62 - 2012-04-07 11:36:30 UTC
Stella SGP wrote:

Actually all your questions have been answered, bottomline, there is nothing wrong with T2 Bpos and invention works as it should. The only problem there is, is your perception of the Bpos and jealousy.


Agreed.

It doesn't mean that I can't wish for little things like:

- T1 BPC ME/PE having an effect on the resulting T2 BPC ME/PE (such as Sqrt(T1 BPC ME)-5 = T2 BPC ME).

- Asking for the decryptors to be rebalanced.

- Lower datacore prices through increased supply.

- Smarter S&I dialog windows which remember the last action that you did to result in less clicking when setting up a bunch of identical industry jobs.
Yamadori
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#63 - 2012-04-07 19:28:37 UTC
Eva Volkova wrote:
Gizan wrote:
im currently one of the guys producing absolutions off invention. my build cost is 127mil right now, and they sell for 210, should invetion be nerfed cuz im making 70~ mil/ship?


Proof?

If data isnt wrong u better sell the components.

http://www.eve-market-guide.com/t2item.php?id=22448

EvA


yep that guy is dumb , he'd be better off selling the components , I recently checked the numbers myself
Buzzmong
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#64 - 2012-04-07 19:56:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Buzzmong
Of course, people are all aware that before Invention Cap Charger II's used to be 15 million a piece right?

You know, Invention did not in any way shape or form utterly destroy a cartel and bring the price down of a very popular module to ~1 million, while also allowing inventors to wreap profits by taking up the massive demand that the BPO holders cannot ever meet if they soley use their BPO for production.


Also, people are totally aware that to produce of a BPO you have to stick it in a slot and manufacture from it, as to make BPC's from them takes an inordinate amount of time.

They are also aware from the seeds of 25 (or 50) BPO's for each item, a number have been destroyed or lost over the years, and CCP have never seeded T2 BPO's again, meaning not only is there a dwindling T2 BPO count for pre-inventoin T2 items, but also that all newer T2 modules (post invention) are solely available by invention.


Right?
Dawiid BenAimaic
Dasa Fern Valley Jamaican Rum Transport Corp
#65 - 2012-04-07 21:02:28 UTC
I have a t2 blueprint. I do invention. I have spreadsheets, I use EveHQ Prism

My factory lines are full of T1 products right now because that is what is profitable right now with my skill set. I made that determination using Cramer's method of evaluation of simultaneous equations using partial pivoting to improve accuracy. Market is always changing. My T2 ISK printer is not always profitable

I firmly believe that a return to a partial T2 lottery would be good for the game, give a reward to those who are willing to run R&D missions everyday besides double the datacores. CCP knows the ratio of BPC:BPO and can release a small number of BPOs without upsetting the market

It was a long time ago that I worked very hard trying to win the T2 lottery and I was very excited when I received my BPO. I would be very sad if my T2 BPO were removed.
Zelda Wei
New Horizon Trade Exchange
#66 - 2012-04-09 16:15:42 UTC

Without BPO for T2 prices would sky rocket.
Brewlar Kuvakei
Adeptio Gloriae
#67 - 2012-04-09 16:45:14 UTC  |  Edited by: ISD Grossvogel
You already have a separate thread for this — ISD Grossvogel
marie claude
Space Underground
Silent Infinity
#68 - 2012-04-09 16:55:31 UTC  |  Edited by: marie claude
to be perfectly honest ccp screwed the inventors over by killing the bpo lottery. for those who are too young t2 bpo were given out by agents when you would buy tickets with lp points. cpp was caught giving the band of brothers winning tickets and their solution to this crime was to kill the lottery all together. what ccp really needs to do is give us the chance to make a t2 bpo by sacrificing a t1 bpo with the odds the same or worse for making a t2 bpc. this would ballence out the market and lower ship cost dramatically.

edit:
taking existing bpos from players is simply an unfair idea anyone who suggest such a thing should be podded immediately.
Shadowsword
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#69 - 2012-04-09 17:50:10 UTC
Scrapyard Bob wrote:

Agreed.

It doesn't mean that I can't wish for little things like:

- T1 BPC ME/PE having an effect on the resulting T2 BPC ME/PE (such as Sqrt(T1 BPC ME)-5 = T2 BPC ME).

- Asking for the decryptors to be rebalanced.

- Lower datacore prices through increased supply.

- Smarter S&I dialog windows which remember the last action that you did to result in less clicking when setting up a bunch of identical industry jobs.



I agree with all those points, except about datacores. They already are really cheap compared to what they once were, to the point that it's barely worth the effort of grinding standings to get R&D agents.
Haulie Berry
#70 - 2012-04-09 17:53:56 UTC
Quote:
- T1 BPC ME/PE having an effect on the resulting T2 BPC ME/PE (such as Sqrt(T1 BPC ME)-5 = T2 BPC ME).


This is a great idea if you want to make less money from your production jobs.
Bugsy VanHalen
Society of lost Souls
#71 - 2012-04-09 19:01:18 UTC
Kenshin Tzestu wrote:
More like BPO owners can undercut people trying invention to the point that they exit the market.

Statements like this really emphasize the lack of common sense in the "T2 BPO's are unfair" crowd.

Seriously,

If you stop for two seconds and actually think about it. If an owner of a T2 BPO wants to make money of it, what is their best option?

T2 BPO are crazy expensive and can be sold for 10's or even 100's of billions of isk. It would take years to make enough profit off the BPO to equal what it is worth to just sell it. True, there are some indy toons out there actually using these for production. But these players are not doing it for the isk. The T2 BPO's are for the most part collectors items.

The opportunity cost attached to them is way to high for them to be a feasible way of making isk. These BPO's are not controlling the market. The T2 items not being produced by invention are because there is no demand for them, not because they have BPO's in game.

Give it a rest. whether or not these are removed from the game will have no noticeable impact on the game as a whole. If they are removed the items dominantly made from them will still not be profitable as there is no demand for those items.
Stella SGP
#72 - 2012-04-09 20:26:21 UTC
Bugsy VanHalen wrote:
Kenshin Tzestu wrote:
More like BPO owners can undercut people trying invention to the point that they exit the market.

Statements like this really emphasize the lack of common sense in the "T2 BPO's are unfair" crowd.

Seriously,

If you stop for two seconds and actually think about it. If an owner of a T2 BPO wants to make money of it, what is their best option?

WOA! Slow down there buddy, you're asking for too much there!
Brewlar Kuvakei
Adeptio Gloriae
#73 - 2012-04-09 20:41:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Brewlar Kuvakei
The owner of T2BPO can get over 50Billion isk in retail value alone and that is before even producing a single item. For sure some of the BPO's are not worth that but many are.
Stella SGP
#74 - 2012-04-09 20:50:04 UTC
Brewlar Kuvakei wrote:
The owner of T2BPO can get over 100Billion isk in retail value alone and that is before even producing a single item. For sure some of the BPO's are not worth that but many are.

And owners of Officer-fitted Titans can get over 100Bil isk in retail value alone too and thats before using it to carebear anomalies and blapping people. So whats your point? Anything you can't afford should be removed?
qDoctor Strangelove
Doomheim
#75 - 2012-04-09 21:26:50 UTC
Stella SGP wrote:

And owners of Officer-fitted Titans can get over 100Bil isk in retail value alone too and thats before using it to carebear anomalies and blapping people. So whats your point? Anything you can't afford should be removed?



I'd like this service or product.
Bugsy VanHalen
Society of lost Souls
#76 - 2012-04-16 14:31:24 UTC
Stella SGP wrote:
Brewlar Kuvakei wrote:
The owner of T2BPO can get over 100Billion isk in retail value alone and that is before even producing a single item. For sure some of the BPO's are not worth that but many are.

And owners of Officer-fitted Titans can get over 100Bil isk in retail value alone too and thats before using it to carebear anomalies and blapping people. So whats your point? Anything you can't afford should be removed?

No,
Actually the point is. Stop crying about not having one. the opportunity costs associated with owning one (for both T2 BPO's and Titan's) exceeds the potential profit.

Yes you can make products from T2 BPO's and sell them, just like you can use a Titan for ratting or running anomalies. But that does not give the players who own them an unfair advantage. The opportunity costs far exceeds the advantage. You could make way more by selling them.

The point is for all the cry babies to man up and stop crying for these items to be removed from game.
Leemi Sobo
#77 - 2012-04-16 16:53:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Leemi Sobo
Eva Volkova wrote:
qDoctor Strangelove wrote:
...
5: Reintroduce T2 BPO's?? that will ruin invention for ever, making it totally BUST for the masses.


5. Not if we change how BPO T2 work. If BPO are more expensive to produce but able to mass produce and Invention less expensive no mass produce. You have a choice.


that's exactly the way it works ... but the other way arround:

  • T2 BPO == less expensive but no mass production
  • T2 BPC == more expensive but mass production

every player can decide for their own if he/she want to invest a few bil ISK to get a BPO to produce a few items a month at lower cost to make profit after a few years
or if he/she want to invent BPCs to produce more items but at higher cost and make profit after a the first month

if there are items where invention isn't profitable .... invent somthing else ?

the same rules for everyone in the sandbox Bear

best regards

Leemi Sobo
qDoctor Strangelove
Doomheim
#78 - 2012-04-16 22:19:12 UTC
Leemi Sobo wrote:
Eva Volkova wrote:
qDoctor Strangelove wrote:
...
5: Reintroduce T2 BPO's?? that will ruin invention for ever, making it totally BUST for the masses.


5. Not if we change how BPO T2 work. If BPO are more expensive to produce but able to mass produce and Invention less expensive no mass produce. You have a choice.


that's exactly the way it works ... but the other way arround:

  • T2 BPO == less expensive but no mass production
  • T2 BPC == more expensive but mass production

every player can decide for their own if he/she want to invest a few bil ISK to get a BPO to produce a few items a month at lower cost to make profit after a few years
or if he/she want to invent BPCs to produce more items but at higher cost and make profit after a the first month

if there are items where invention isn't profitable .... invent somthing else ?

the same rules for everyone in the sandbox Bear

best regards

Leemi Sobo


For most module BPC's, the cost of making a unit from a BPO and a BPC should not matter much.
Katerwaul
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#79 - 2012-04-17 04:14:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Katerwaul
How dare they hold such a monopoly while other industrialists produce as many items as they can for as little as possible then BLEED THEMSELVES to give other capsulers the best deal possible. A budding inventor has no opportunities to break out into the market and no recourse. There's no need for armadas of typhoons. No desire for any drakes. No chance for casual invention for the good of a corporation.

They will forever be SLAVES, mining ore and ice for the T2 BPO Gods to consume with their industrial war machines while they LORD ABOVE US in their hover-chairs. Their opulence dripping off of them to poison every market they touch and driving the NORMALS into rat infested gutters where we have to sell our bodies alongside our wares to ensure our security and profits. We must find these purveyors of misbegotten goods and drive them from the heavens.

DEATH TO THE T2 BPOs AND ALL THOSE WHO HOLD THEM! Etc... Etc..Ragequit..whine..etc..

It's odd how closely Eve can mirror life at times, and it seems that the T2 BPOs bring to light one universal truth.

"Life isn't fair."

I'm glad I missed all of the drama that ensued during my hiatus last year and avoided the invidia and avaritia that seems to have poisoned so many with such ira.

The dead horse became a bag of glue long ago. Feel free to stop kicking it whenever you'd like.
Working with everyone to improve New Eden -- Internet Spaceships Iz Serious Business.
Jurinak
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#80 - 2012-04-17 08:27:12 UTC
right now there are 8 BPOs in the Contract more in the Forum Sell Order.

Man to hell the "T2 BPOs are evil!!!!" faction should buybuybuy, be a part of the evil empire that rules the universe with the there blue papers...you do not?? think about why. Its because you are a nice guy and dont want to be evil, rigth?