Missions & Complexes

So I've just gotten back to eve due to lack of sandbox in my balanced diet of gaming and have a few questions. Since my last time playing Ive been running a full fit almost perfect golem and have been enjoying the steady cashflow, but with my thoughts on the future I considered changing things up eventually. While a golem is a great level4 mission runner, i cant help but cringe at their very distasteful 3TPS or you ain't hitting shi- +TP cycling spam and 40k CN ammo range..... I know what your all thinking: "Woe is I, a high class missions runner that poops on level 4's with a triple AAA marauder class ship and whining about it." Ill give those of you who think that a nod, but for the amount of torp/skills in general/ and BS V (i dont want to talk about it) and a 4Bill price tag I would expect a LITTLE better performance out of this boat.

While i may be wrong in assuming this, i dont think Lowsec is a place for marauders, but I want to take the risk/reward because I want to start finally getting into PvP and for what I plan to fly its going to be lowsec plexing + level V's to handle my "needs". This has obviously brought me back to the drawing board in search for a efficient but cheap runner (i can consider a dual box setup in case some setups work well in pairs) so what ive scrapped together has come down to a ishtar (heard it has awful em resist holes + the loadout's for V's are from 2008 >_>.) a Vulture/Nighthawk I forget which since I cant seem to find a decent loadout on BC (that and 500 dps is just....bleh :/), a Tengu (Just cant justify the BASE price for just using the ship) and recently had my eyes on the rattler. In its ingenious drone and torp/cruise design we find a humble BS with large helping of mids just waiting to be abused with some pith-a resists pushing a sexy 2000 dps tank with some room left over for some good ol sentry tracking throwing down some nice 1100 minimum drone/missile dps.

So my eve forum viewers I have come here with a most simple question: What is it that you feel makes you the most successful in level 5's/lowsec pve venues?

Incursions were quite fun but its more of a been there done that kind of problem. Im sure that L5's aren't the most exciting but there's something about that possibility of PvP and getting ganked that's almost...exhilarating to me. I could just be masochistic but where there's a steep risk lies a even better payoff, specially if you can throw a HAC together in a quarter of the price of a T3. While incursions did net me a slightly higher sum WHEN I had a fleet that was on top of their game, but that's not always the case. If your getting lumped with some inexperienced fellows that don't know how to focus targets it actually becomes
COUNTER-produtive. I will still consider your suggestion of the tengu as a start, but in the order of importance Id like to find a cheaper option for the time being to get my feet wet.

As always your comments are most appreciated.

because i'm a raider!

mind = blown?

My experience with Incursions is the same as yours. Like you, I am a highly developed lvl 4 mission runner and make scads of isk with it. While Incursions has the possibility of paying more than lvl 4's, they usually don't (for me). I didn't really understand the hostility toward Incursions and people thinking of the payout until I thought it through....Non EZ MODE (Non Caldari) PvE people of moderate SP (like 20-30 mill) just plain cannot run lvl 4's with the efficiency that I do...therefore Incursions seem like alot of pay.

Hell, lvl 4's pay more then my time in 0.0. I basically did exploration and running sites and such both by myself and with others. While the pay for doing is is CLOSE to lvl 4's...it certainly does not exceed it. However, again, most people can't run lvl 4's like I do so PvE'ing in 0.0 seems more attractive to them.

In my search for higher pay, I decided to try lvl 4's in lowsec. Found a nice, out-of-the-way area to run them. Brought in a couple of alts to check for gate camps etc. However, I just couldn't bring myself to bring a shiney ship out there. Sometimes you are trapped in station because of roams or you get the attention of someone. Therefore you just aren't quite as efficient. Not too far off from optimal but not running on optimal. The pay for lowsec is higher, but not THAT much higher. Bounties are about the same. You get a little more mission reward (big whoop) and a nice little bump in LP....so, in all, you make about as much as running lvl 4's in Hisec. I still do this from time to time but mainly as just doing something different/for spice.

Now, lvl 5's which the OP wishes to try.

I tried them. Maybe they changed but probably not....but they are just too dangerous. No matter where I went...which lvl 5 I tried...there was a group of people actively looking for people running lvl 5's. Combat probes were always out etc etc. Just not worth it. In fact, it was so bad I never really was able to test out a good lvl 5 mission running boat.

Until...

I was able to tag along with a firend running lvl 5's. It was an area realtively safe because the 'bad guys' were friendly - to my friend at least.

Guess what? It paid about what I could make running lvl 4's in hisec.

I then tried WH living. Problem is it requires running in a group....hard to do it yourself when others aren't on. After a time...guess what? Paid about what running lvl 4's in hisec does for me.

In fact, there are new Player Corps out there making it even 'worse'...Corps like Pro Synergy. I hardly ever salvaged because I would make more running another mission. Now I can get about 40% ish of that salvage in isk WITHOUT EVEN SALVAGING...no time spent! {Pro Synergy is a corp that salvages your missions for you and gives you a share.}

I think I've made my peace with this. It would be nice to find something that paid more. I have hopes on running sites in 0.0 with a cap ship...THAT I think will break the ceiling...but I shall see :)

tl;dr - I sympathize with the OP :D

L5s easy mode

2 ships -
Ship #1 - Assault Ship (Passive tank) -
Ship #2 - Domi or Armagedon with one large remote rep, the rest gank fit

This will be about 150 million fit and can run a select group of L5s in an average of about 15-20 minutes

3 ships -
Ship #1 - Assault Ship (Passive tank) -
Ship #2 - Domi or Armagedon with one large remote rep, the rest gank fit
Ship #3 - Talos

This will be about 250 million fit and can run a good portion of L5s in an average of about 5-10 minutes


4 ships -
Ship #1 - Assault Ship (Passive tank) -
Ship #2 - Exequror
Ship #3 - Talos
Ship #4 - Talos

This will be about 250 million fit and can run most L5s in about 3-10 minutes. Not having to fly a battleship means that you are MUCH more agile.

Obviously the faster you can run missions the more get paid and the less chance you have of pirates catching you.

Anyone who says that pirates are a problem when you are blitzing L5s is a moron. If you are flying cheap most pirates won't bother to hunt you and avoiding them is VERY EASY (hello d-scan). They just aren't going to put in the effort necessary to catch T1 sub caps.

Oh yea, fly a talos. Over 1400 DPS at max skills and wicked fast.


-FM

Some very good information, will look through this.

Without wanting to cause offense. I used to run in a Golem myself. It "feels" fast.... it isn't. Even in your 4bil super duper pimp fit. It's not fast.

I recently wrote up my method of doing level IV's, have a look at my recent posts.

Being Caldari born, cross training into Amarr, moving to Amarr space and buying a Nightmare was the best thing I ever did for my wallet.

Whilst this doesn't help your level V woes, I can guarantee it will increase your current ISK returns for doing level IV's.

Fly safe!

Very possible. I tried it a couple years ago and haven't been back.

However, I am suspicious of 75-100 mill on bounties. Unless bounties have been bumped on lvl 5's (which is possible) the bounties were not all that higher than missioning and/or 0.0...and I find it ....difficult ....to acheive consistent bounty ticks of >60 mill per hour and that is shooting rats nonstop. Hell, getting consistent ticks of 45 mill per hour is not eacy...but maybe I am doing something wrong.

As for missioning ships, You really can't go wrong with the Tengu. I personally like the CNR but also use the Tengu mainly for blitzing. When I use the Tengu I always think...you know ...this is just as good if not better than the CNR. I have a Golem...and even Maurader V (sigh) and I just...don't really like it.

A "bounty" of 75-100M per mission is possible but only by salvaging navy tags. Pirate Faction missions provide more like 25-30 Million in bounty per mission.

Pro-Tip - If you are collecting bounties or tags in L5s you are doing them wrong.
Warp in, kill mission objective, warp out. Everything else is wasted time. The 80-100K LP is all you should care about

Sitting around in a mission to kill battleships just for the ISK/Tags makes you pirate bait.

-FM