Market Discussions

Considering 2 of 2 alliance SRPs got banned and then had to petition their accounts back...

Sure you won't have great concern (it's not like you generally show much concern about anything anyway) but others do.

Untill CCP treats botting the same as RMT I will have no sympathy or support for their campaign against it. Currently getting caught botting is a minor inconvince while getting caught selling isk is perma insta ban, this is unfair. CCP should perma ban botters along with RMT sellers.

As long as bots are in the game CCP will have to deal with RMT untill they realise this, let the RMT and cheap isk flow.

Think if CCP actually actively removed bots with client based monitoring RMT would not even be a problem as it would actually be fairly aquired ISK and thus hurting no one to sell. CCP could actually compete with players in ISK selling while still monopolising the PLEX market insuring guarnteed revenue each month per subscription.


Kill the bots and KIll the RMT. Make Eve REAL!

There is no way to know the ISK and items you are trading are legit and won't be confiscated.

I was once banned in Ultima Online for possessing duped items As I purchased a lot of rare stuff, back in the days when Markee Dragon was THE rares trader, I inevitably ended-up with some forgeries in my possession.

I was eventually cleared of any wrong-doing, but that was quite a scare to lose my account!

Recently I discovered my 14 year old subscribed account was mistakenly cancelled when they recently moved to a different billing system. My tower and all the rares it contained are lost forever. I hope somebody managed to grab some goodies from the collapsed tower.

confiscation of isk/items is not the problem

looking like an isk seller because you gave a loan to someone who is engaged in RMT and consequently standing to lose your accounts is the problem.

as Tickles said: loans can be a very good cover for RMT

....and once you are accused of having sold ISK how are you going to prove that you did not receive real life money in return?

all CCP can do is look at your transactions and say "well, these two players seem to have no prior history that would explain why Rich Guy sent RMT Guy 80b ISK. Guess he tried to convert some of his EVE wealth into dollars... :banhammer:"

what CCP does not know and what you never can hope to prove is that you had given the loan in good faith based on 2 years of interaction and friendship in a 3rd party IRC channel (while RMT Guy either intended to scam you or needed some short-term liquidity for his shady business).

The Trial is not any less scary because the events depicted in the book are unlikely - all that matters is that by extrapolating our experiences with faceless bureaucracies we come to the conclusion that we believe these events to be possible.

Standing to lose your everything without any possibility of recourse/any hope of being able to change the outcome through action seems to trigger some pretty deep atavistic fears... it really does turn us into dogs.

Did you know that CCP - if they believe you to be guilty - usually won't reply to your petitions/emails?

Yeah. That's just what any economy needs- MORE problems securing funds to finance investment.

You never took an econ class, eh?

I guess that's why the forums aren't inundated with topics about loan offers, bond sales, etc, and stock isn't bought & sold at all. Hell, the BSACSE doesn't even exist, and no corporation ever funds their operations by borrowing, selling bonds, or selling stock.

Wanna try that again?



Right. And I bet you're the queen of Amarr, too.

I don't care what your credentials are. Trying to argue that a functioning capital market doesn't contribute to economic growth is idiotic. Trying to argue that there is no capital market in Eve is simply contrary to actual reality. Trying to argue that inhibiting the market for loans will have no detrimental effects just screams "I have no idea what I'm talking about!"

You don't like RMTs? Fine, but a 'scorched earth' policy in dealing with them isn't going to help the situation. You don't want to cause more damage in the process.

So because the forum has loan topics means the Eve economy doesn't function perfectly well without a capital market?

That's your argument?

I love it when morons double down on their stupid comments.

I find it telling that the so-called Ph.D. replies to an argument with insults. And no, that wasn't my argument. My arguments were:

A.) Your claim that Eve functions well without a capital market was either false, as Eve clearly has a capital market at this time, or unsupported, as you're apparently referring to a time period or supporting logic you've failed to cite.

B.) Your criteria, "functions perfectly well", is subjective and can have many different meanings (Does it mean that economic growth is at its maximum potential, that capital development/spending still occurs at a "moderate" (another subjective term) rate, or just that trade occurs at all?).

C.) Assuming you meant the first two meanings I mentioned, it's obviously false as a well-functioning capital market allows unused resources to be put to investment, which leads to greater economic development then there would be otherwise. If it didn't, there likely wouldn't be ANY trades or sales of bonds/stock, and a greatly reduced market for loans.

D.) I don't care if you've won 387 Nobel Prizes and written 8 books that redefined modern economics. A bad argument is a bad argument. The fact that you've thus far tried to hide behind insults, baseless assertions, and apparently false credentials says volumes about your contribution to this topic, troll.

Is this enough for you to understand what I'm saying, or do I need to use smaller words & shorter sentences?

Not quite able to address what I'm saying, eh?

I never said the Eve Economy would fall apart without the capital market. I said that the Eve Economy would function better and grow more quickly with a capital market than it would without. That's the point of stock & bond sales. The fact that stocks & bonds are sold at all indicates that this market is utilized for capital development, and thus economic growth, that otherwise wouldn't occur. This is true of any economy where you have savings.

Again, nobody is saying that RMT and bots shouldn't be a concern. However, eliminating the capital market while doing so removes one of Eve's big features (a functioning market economy), especially when it doesn't seem like a "scorched earth" policy is actually necessary. Are you seriously telling me that the only way to get RMTs and bots is to use methods that penalizes a significant number of innocent players?

Also, I hope you'll own up to lying about your credentials eventually. I'd hate to have your immaturity associated with my field.

A.) You're right. "Harms" or "inhibits" would probably have been a better word choice.



B.) So you admit now that there is a capital market?



You still insist on asserting that loaning is small compared to the overall economy & the impact of RMT. Care to show any figures on that?

The fact that honest loans have been caught in the crossfire atl indicates room for improvement. I find it hard to believe that the only recourse CCP can employ is one that has the potential to severly damage the loan market.

Protip: You'd probably be better off supporting your arguments with evidence and/or logic. Just flinging insults gets you nowhere. Then again, most of your posts seem to be little more than trolling, so maybe you don't intend to discuss this issue so much as get a rise out of people.