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New dev blog: Team Security - Now with 100% more Anti-RMT

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DeODokktor
Dark Templars
The Fonz Presidium
#241 - 2012-04-03 21:50:31 UTC
Merin Ryskin wrote:
DeODokktor wrote:
Adding a Secure Loan (Where the game holds all ITEMS in Escrow until the loan is repaid according to terms) would mean that all of my loans are 100% secure.


And also 100% pointless, since if I can allow you to hold on to items worth what you're loaning me then I can just sell those items on the market myself (other than rigged ships, I suppose) and get the money.



Items sold on the market are done so at a loss.
Also, Blueprints, UltraRare Items (currently being removed by CCP cause they are confused), Limited Items, and large bulks of items are not ideal things to sell. For some users who only deal with basic market items then I guess selling is the best option, some of us go well in excess of the limits of the ibis.
orphenshadow
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#242 - 2012-04-03 21:51:11 UTC
Merin Ryskin wrote:
DeODokktor wrote:
Adding a Secure Loan (Where the game holds all ITEMS in Escrow until the loan is repaid according to terms) would mean that all of my loans are 100% secure.


And also 100% pointless, since if I can allow you to hold on to items worth what you're loaning me then I can just sell those items on the market myself (other than rigged ships, I suppose) and get the money.



A secure loan feature would be cooll

Something where you actually have to develop a credit rating with small loans.. and the loans are backed by your personal wallet..

Default on a loan.. = neg balance.

EvilweaselFinance
GoonCorp
Goonswarm Federation
#243 - 2012-04-03 21:51:28 UTC
CCP Sreegs wrote:
To clarify on the ETC question regarding Shattered Crystal and our other resellers from earlier.

You may purchase 60 day ETCs from official resellers: https://secure.eveonline.com/etc.aspx

Those may then be converted for PLEX. They cannot be converted directly into isk. Only PLEX may be converted to isk. The only place to buy PLEX is from the account management section of our website or ingame for is.

I hope that helps.


Just a quick note, this is not correct: ccp has a sanctioned way you may trade a GTC securely to another player for isk (without plex) that can be accessed here: https://secure.eveonline.com/ETC
CCP Sreegs
CCP Retirement Home
#244 - 2012-04-03 21:53:30 UTC
orphenshadow wrote:
Sounds sexy..

One thing I'm curious about.. It's kind of a hypothetical scenario but...

How does one figure out what isk was generated with a bot vs actual work..

For instance. If a player spent a lot of time actually ratting and doing stuff. But decided to run a bot for a few hours while he/she goes pvp on another toon..

How would CCP know that x isk was from bot, and y isk was legit?

Not that this scenario is even realistic. I'm pretty sure those with access to bots would never have the desire to rat :P


We don't differentiate. Don't bot and you won't ever have to care.

"Sreegs has juuust edged out Soundwave as my favourite dev." - Meita Way 2012
Days Mahyisti
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#245 - 2012-04-03 21:54:27 UTC
Sreegs, how would I go about doing the Bot report thing? Would I right click on the persons name, or..?
CCP Sreegs
CCP Retirement Home
#246 - 2012-04-03 21:54:39 UTC
Shandir wrote:
CCP Sreegs wrote:
To clarify on the ETC question regarding Shattered Crystal and our other resellers from earlier.

You may purchase 60 day ETCs from official resellers: https://secure.eveonline.com/etc.aspx

Those may then be converted for PLEX. They cannot be converted directly into isk. Only PLEX may be converted to isk. The only place to buy PLEX is from the account management section of our website or ingame for is.

I hope that helps.

I believe this is inaccurate given there's a GTC > ISK trading forum and feature in account management on EVE's site.

Legal ways to get 3rd party GTCs into ISK. Either GTC > PLEX conversion feature in game > ISK, or GTC > GTC trading feature on EVE's site > ISK.


That's what I get for reposting what someone else said v0v

If those things exist then yeah I guess you can use them.

"Sreegs has juuust edged out Soundwave as my favourite dev." - Meita Way 2012
DeODokktor
Dark Templars
The Fonz Presidium
#247 - 2012-04-03 21:59:00 UTC
CCP Sreegs wrote:
Shandir wrote:
CCP Sreegs wrote:
To clarify on the ETC question regarding Shattered Crystal and our other resellers from earlier.

You may purchase 60 day ETCs from official resellers: https://secure.eveonline.com/etc.aspx

Those may then be converted for PLEX. They cannot be converted directly into isk. Only PLEX may be converted to isk. The only place to buy PLEX is from the account management section of our website or ingame for is.

I hope that helps.

I believe this is inaccurate given there's a GTC > ISK trading forum and feature in account management on EVE's site.

Legal ways to get 3rd party GTCs into ISK. Either GTC > PLEX conversion feature in game > ISK, or GTC > GTC trading feature on EVE's site > ISK.


That's what I get for reposting what someone else said v0v

If those things exist then yeah I guess you can use them.



Nice, Another dev in charge of something who doesnt know of the mechanisms that the game has in play to support "Legal RMT".
Lets hope he didnt ban every player from feb/march who traded GTC for ISK via the forums ;P...
Victor Twenty
The Scorpion Brothers
#248 - 2012-04-03 22:04:48 UTC
One small step for CCP, one giant leap for all EVE players.

Keep up the good work CCP.

Vic20
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#249 - 2012-04-03 22:06:11 UTC
Quote:
How do I know this person is trustworthy? In EvE none the less? It could be (and in my case was) a very trusted MD forum investors known for years by everyone as upstanding and clean.

I did all my duties yet he ended up being somewhat related to a RMTer.

Teach me how to avoid this, I am all ears.


I personally would not loan ISK (or cash for that matter) to anyone unless I personally knew them. I don't tend to go by reputation, as I have known players "reputed" to be very above board that ended up confessing that they purchased ISK outside of approved mechanics and never mentioned it to anyone until caught.

If I, who am well know to be very outspoken against RMT activities (and a generally all around nice guy Smile), asked you to loan me ISK common sense would dictate that you would not do so.

You don't know me, you only (at best) know OF me... and really have no idea what I do when nobody is watching.

However, if one of your buddies (that you know well and trust) asked for a loan I would say go for it. Unless, of course, you know he is one of those "buddies" that doesn't mind cheating and wouldn't take seriously anything that might happen to you in a game as a result.

Does it make it harder to gift some poor noob you'd like to help out? Yeah, it does.

But who do you blame for that... CCP? I really don't think so.

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.
Blastcaps Madullier
Handsome Millionaire Playboys
Sedition.
#250 - 2012-04-03 22:06:14 UTC
CCP Sreegs wrote:
CRAP I REPLIED TOOO SOOOOOON



Think you just found your forum sig sreegs :P
CCP Sreegs
CCP Retirement Home
#251 - 2012-04-03 22:10:14 UTC
DeODokktor wrote:
CCP Sreegs wrote:
Shandir wrote:
CCP Sreegs wrote:
To clarify on the ETC question regarding Shattered Crystal and our other resellers from earlier.

You may purchase 60 day ETCs from official resellers: https://secure.eveonline.com/etc.aspx

Those may then be converted for PLEX. They cannot be converted directly into isk. Only PLEX may be converted to isk. The only place to buy PLEX is from the account management section of our website or ingame for is.

I hope that helps.

I believe this is inaccurate given there's a GTC > ISK trading forum and feature in account management on EVE's site.

Legal ways to get 3rd party GTCs into ISK. Either GTC > PLEX conversion feature in game > ISK, or GTC > GTC trading feature on EVE's site > ISK.


That's what I get for reposting what someone else said v0v

If those things exist then yeah I guess you can use them.



Nice, Another dev in charge of something who doesnt know of the mechanisms that the game has in play to support "Legal RMT".
Lets hope he didnt ban every player from feb/march who traded GTC for ISK via the forums ;P...


To be fair you can't do anything with ETCs in game. All of the trading happens outside of the game on the website.

"Sreegs has juuust edged out Soundwave as my favourite dev." - Meita Way 2012
Jita Alt666
#252 - 2012-04-03 22:15:13 UTC
CCP Sreegs wrote:
DeODokktor wrote:
CCP Sreegs wrote:
Shandir wrote:
CCP Sreegs wrote:
To clarify on the ETC question regarding Shattered Crystal and our other resellers from earlier.

You may purchase 60 day ETCs from official resellers: https://secure.eveonline.com/etc.aspx

Those may then be converted for PLEX. They cannot be converted directly into isk. Only PLEX may be converted to isk. The only place to buy PLEX is from the account management section of our website or ingame for is.

I hope that helps.

I believe this is inaccurate given there's a GTC > ISK trading forum and feature in account management on EVE's site.

Legal ways to get 3rd party GTCs into ISK. Either GTC > PLEX conversion feature in game > ISK, or GTC > GTC trading feature on EVE's site > ISK.


That's what I get for reposting what someone else said v0v

If those things exist then yeah I guess you can use them.



Nice, Another dev in charge of something who doesnt know of the mechanisms that the game has in play to support "Legal RMT".
Lets hope he didnt ban every player from feb/march who traded GTC for ISK via the forums ;P...


To be fair you can't do anything with ETCs in game. All of the trading happens outside of the game on the website.


Which is completely outside of Sreegs scope.
Cyclar
Rustbucket Industries
#253 - 2012-04-03 22:21:47 UTC
Great job Sreegs.

To all of you who worry that people might get wrongfully caught up in this: Don't worry. Im sure the methods and data mining technologies used for this is far more sophisticated than you can imagine.

I have complete confidence that this will not result in many false positives - if it over time results in one or two, im sure it will be sorted out.

Again, absolutely great job Sreegs!

Catho Sharn
Don't Die Interstellar Enterprises
#254 - 2012-04-03 22:26:16 UTC
You know what we really need? A desktop-sized version of the Joe poster, that's what!

ps - Kudos to the security team.
Mioelnir
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#255 - 2012-04-03 22:34:17 UTC
Buzzy Warstl wrote:
CCP Sreegs wrote:
Buzzy Warstl wrote:
CCP Sreegs wrote:
What percentage of people do you suppose would actually use that? It's certainly feasible but adoption rates are abysmal out in the world.

Debian signs their security announcements.

They are completely accessible to people not using PGP/GPG and are authenticated for people who are using them.


Yeah I know some people sign their emails, what I'm saying is given the work that would go into implementing such a system how many people would actually gain benefit from it.

PGP signing adoption rates are terrible or were at least the last time I checked.

True, I'd be surprised if the Debian security mailing list had more than a few thousand subscribers, and that may include everyone who uses GPG who isn't on FreeBSD.

Also true (and a +like for FreeBSD).

Sadly, business-wise it probably isn't enough benefit to warrant any attention. Even though the marketing department would probably not have to script openssl into muttrc.
Iniquita
Perkone
Caldari State
#256 - 2012-04-03 22:34:49 UTC
Are you simply negging individuals or are corp wallets getting hit by this as well?
Potamus Jenkins
eXceed Inc.
Plucky Adventurers
#257 - 2012-04-03 22:38:17 UTC
Blastcaps Madullier wrote:
CCP Guard wrote:
Buying and selling ISK is bad m´kay. And CCP Sreegs is here to tell you what Team Security is doing about it.

Read the blog here and let us know if you have feedback or questions for us.



I have a question CCP Guard

"Neither RMT nor bot-related activity have any place in New Eden any longer"

odd choice of phrasing on the dev blog, implication being CCP condoned botting till recently....


Also are CCP Games going to take actions against companys producing botting programs? activision-blizzard did a while ago against wow glider so might be worth CCPs legal department looking at the case files, judgements etc and see how/if they can be applied against bot producing companys selling their botting software commercialy



they stated in a blog or post somewhere that i believe during incarna and before they were pretty much asleep at the wheel as far as fighting bots.
Florestan Bronstein
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#258 - 2012-04-03 22:39:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Florestan Bronstein
Jita Alt666 wrote:
CCP Sreegs wrote:

To be fair you can't do anything with ETCs in game. All of the trading happens outside of the game on the website.


Which is completely outside of Sreegs scope.

not really

the problem is that ever since CCP started sending newbies "PLEX are a great way to get ISK, buy some now!" emails, RMT sites have put the direct sale of ISK on the backburner and are instead emphasizing the sale of PLEX in their advertisements - because now everybody knows that buying PLEX to get some ISK is legit.... Roll

Back in the day the division was easy - GTCs are legit and everything else is bad RMT.
There was no way a RMT site could have gotten their fingers on working GTCs without CCP seeing their cut.

Now CCP sells PLEX which is good.
And RMT sites sell PLEX which is bad.

Every time CCP advertises PLEX as legal RMT, "bad" RMT sites profit because they sell the very same product as CCP (which was not possible with GTCs) and the "... but only if you buy it from eveonline.com" gets swept under the rug.

Anyone wanting to combat RMT has to deal with this issue sooner or later - and while Sreegs cannot solve it on his own (guess bizdev are happy that they can sell 2 PLEX for more $$ than 1 GTC and won't let go off that easily) he should at least be very aware of the problem.

If he himself has lost track of legal vs illegal RMT, how is he supposed to prevent Joe Rookie from stumbling into the same trap?
Oh but he isn't supposed to prevent that? his job only involves technical detection means and infrequent appeals to the playerbase to please change their behavior? he doesn't care about anything outside that narrow field of vision?

well, you only solve a problem on the scale of RMT in EVE by taking a coordinated & holistic approach across departments.
Not by saying "oh but this is the job of game design", "and this is due to business development", "and that's the work of GMs", ...
If that is the case then get game design, Business Development and GMs on one table and solve the problem together.

CCP Sreegs will always end up as the spokesperson and player contact for any sort of bad behavior, no matter whether he thinks it falls into his responsibility or not.

edit: directionless post lacks direction, I'm too tired to write concisely but I hope the gist of it is clear
CCP Sreegs
CCP Retirement Home
#259 - 2012-04-03 22:40:10 UTC
Iniquita wrote:
Are you simply negging individuals or are corp wallets getting hit by this as well?


We're reversing RMT transactions wherever they ended up.

"Sreegs has juuust edged out Soundwave as my favourite dev." - Meita Way 2012
Allataria
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#260 - 2012-04-03 22:44:15 UTC
Screegs,

Does ISBoxer count as a botting program to get banned? Someone was saying that that particular program was allowed by EVE but I can't see how any third party program that runs the game for you would be allowed. Please confirm?