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How salvage drones will affect Marauders
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Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Divine Damnation
#21 - 2012-04-04 04:46:27 UTC
Argaral wrote:

Hmmm, I would potentially argue this point. I went from rattlesnake/noctis combo to rattlesnake/paladin. The added dps is quite a boon while nothing is outside of range for the Paladins tractors. However, I would imagine a nightmare/noctis combo would perform better though. A rattlesnake/paladin would be a better AFK option however with assigning its drones to the rattlesnake. and perma running its tank while only targeting bs's when needed.

A much larger isk investment in the 2nd ship however as well as an increase in skill point training time.


Why were you using a Rattlesnake with that much gank on the field? You should have been using relatively mobile Marauders with fairly light tanks. I ran a CNR + Tach Abaddon for a while and the only tank they had was a couple of resist mods and medium RR drones from the other ship.

-Liang

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.
Argaral
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#22 - 2012-04-04 04:51:49 UTC
Liang Nuren wrote:


Why were you using a Rattlesnake with that much gank on the field?

-Liang


Laziness. After a few years I've become that bored with missioning. Rattlesnake for heavy tank. The marauder had a relatively light tank though. Focus firing targets however means the bs's pop about as fast as I can salvage them. while the Paladins drones take out frigates and cruisers.

It's nearly a no brainer in high sec and with simple t2 fits, I'm usually never a target for the gank squad as they make no money. So I loot, salvage and shoot in relatively quick peace with good LP per hour. Pays for the accounts in a week anyway
Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Divine Damnation
#23 - 2012-04-04 05:06:51 UTC
Well it sounds like you're content with your approach. Heavy LP approaches will always value gank over looting and salvaging, which means that you'd be even better with a pair of faction BS (probably Machs for the align time). A pair of Marauders becomes dramatically superior once looting and/or salvaging matters to you (Drones, FW, Sleepers, etc).

Basically, the question you need to ask yourself is whether the Noctis earns more ISK/hr than a second gank BS/Marauder/Tengu in either that mission or running wholly separate missions. When you start looking at dual marauders, the question becomes whether the Noctis coming along and looting 1-2 battleships and a some frigs/cruisers is likely to make more than the extra DPS from the second Marauder.

The answer is almost certainly no.

-Liang

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.
Tenris Anis
Schattenengel Clan
#24 - 2012-04-06 00:25:00 UTC
Roh Voleto wrote:
Crellion wrote:
Unless if you are in a Marauder and can get 80% of the BS cans without delaying the mission completon time ...


That's at least one targeting slot wasted on not getting rats out of your way.

Maybe I am just spoiled by the Vargur, but anything you could do on the go, even if you killed and moved much slower, would still be a waste of effort compared to looting and salvaging with a Noctis.


Looting and salvaging with a noctis itself is already a waste. Instead of looting with that noctis that toon could do something productive like making more stuff that will not be looted and salvaged at all.

Remove insurance.
Crellion
Nano Rhinos
PURPLE HELMETED WARRIORS
#25 - 2012-04-06 06:19:47 UTC
Roh Voleto wrote:
Boz Wel wrote:
Roh Voleto wrote:
Crellion wrote:
Unless if you are in a Marauder and can get 80% of the BS cans without delaying the mission completon time ...


That's at least one targeting slot wasted on not getting rats out of your way.

Maybe I am just spoiled by the Vargur, but anything you could do on the go, even if you killed and moved much slower, would still be a waste of effort compared to looting and salvaging with a Noctis.


Call me skeptical. At least the way I run missions, you're losing money every time you return to station, leave your combat ship and begin flying around in a Noctis, because that's time you aren't spending doing additional combat missions. I tend to blitz missions with 2 accounts and don't bother salvaging/looting at all, but if I was going to, dual Marauders would be the way to do it. You don't even need to loot/salvage every single wreck in a mission with a Marauder, but you can just aim for the battleship wrecks and do the others as time permits. That way, you don't ever have any downtime where you aren't killing rats/completing missions.

On the other hand, if you leave the mission and pick up your Noctis, you're incurring additional travel time and while you loot/salvage faster, you aren't earning any bounties or mission rewards (LP being the big one) while doing it. If you want to salvage, you're much better off doing it with marauders and just doing what you can on the go.


My argument is that using a BS pilot to loot and salvage is a waste of time. Even two Marauders would be outperformed by a five day old Noctis pilot. And would be much better off just running another mission.


Doing it wrong. Two characters = Marauder + DPS ship. Everyday of the week will outperform DPS ship + Noctis.
Crellion
Nano Rhinos
PURPLE HELMETED WARRIORS
#26 - 2012-04-06 06:34:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Crellion
Liang Nuren wrote:
Well it sounds like you're content with your approach. Heavy LP approaches will always value gank over looting and salvaging, which means that you'd be even better with a pair of faction BS (probably Machs for the align time). A pair of Marauders becomes dramatically superior once looting and/or salvaging matters to you (Drones, FW, Sleepers, etc).

Basically, the question you need to ask yourself is whether the Noctis earns more ISK/hr than a second gank BS/Marauder/Tengu in either that mission or running wholly separate missions. When you start looking at dual marauders, the question becomes whether the Noctis coming along and looting 1-2 battleships and a some frigs/cruisers is likely to make more than the extra DPS from the second Marauder.

The answer is almost certainly no.

-Liang


QFT but I would add that in my experience even normal missions from the navies (some of those) have more isk in the BS cans than in the LPs and bounties.

To put in other words what Liang has said so succntly that perhaps I shouldn't, using Marauder as a DPS ship allows you to get 80% of the cans without added time. If you know which cans to get and cba to micromanage a bit the target slots the income that a Noctis would get after you have warped out on to the next mission is so ridiculously small that comparing it with another Tengu/DPS BS/faction BS/Marauder for the second char is moot.

I tend to favor Tank&Gank Marauder + Gank Marauder or Gank Marauder + Tank&Gank Tengu just to be able to relax a bit more in the high dps missions (i.e. Smash the supplier, AE bonus etc.).

I have refrained from using a Golem in missions but paired with another Marauder with RR or cap transfer I might try it... Perhaps Paladin & Golem... as it would allow 3 painters without creating tank concerns... Edit: ok no I crunched the numbers and it's still terribad even if remote repped... poor Golem...
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