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The solution to hiding from war in NPC corps? You decide.

Author
Patient 2428190
DEGRREE'Fo'FREE Internet Business School
#121 - 2012-04-04 13:45:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Patient 2428190
At the projected 500K ISK per member, it would cost you ~24 billion ISK to wardec Perkone for a week.

State War Academy would cost you ~112 billion a week.

Edit: You'd have to kill a lot of freighter alts to make that worth it.
Gogela
Epic Ganking Time
CODE.
#122 - 2012-04-04 16:57:29 UTC
Patient 2428190 wrote:
At the projected 500K ISK per member, it would cost you ~24 billion ISK to wardec Perkone for a week.

State War Academy would cost you ~112 billion a week.

Edit: You'd have to kill a lot of freighter alts to make that worth it.

I would give it a go were that possible. I would need to pull in a few more well-off pilots to help, but with 20 or so dedicated pirates we could easily turn a profit dec'ing the State War Academy. However, if that were possible 1) it would be bad for nubs and 2) All the lucrative freighter alts we'd be targeting would get scooped up into their respective player corps, making the effort for naught.

I don't think it would be a good idea to allow decs on NPC corps unless they introduced a mechanic whereby, in the instance of the State War Academy, NPC navy forces would also hunt aggressors in Empire space, like they do now for low sec status. Then the prospect of dec'ing an NPC corp gets interesting. It would be really difficult. You wouldn't be dec'ing for profit... you would be dec'ing to see if you could do it and how long you would last.

Neat idea though. Big smile

Signatures should be used responsibly...

Nova Fox
Novafox Shipyards
#123 - 2012-04-04 17:02:55 UTC
Doesnt SWA have at least a wing strength group of pvpers and thier various allaince sponsors that they have yet to call help from? I mean that group has been around for a while and who knows where some of thier vets are now a days and what sort of military positions they hold in various allainces.

Hell it wouldn't surprise me if any of the allaince sponsors are sponsors on the grounds of some of the leaders learning from the group.

Dust 514's CPM 1 Iron Wolf Saber Eve mail me about Dust 514 issues.

Stellar Vix
State War Academy
Caldari State
#124 - 2012-04-04 17:35:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Stellar Vix
For those not in SWA. Let me explain.
The group I have is fleet strength at least I just do not have the leadership skills to fleet them all, and with 17 charisma after +5s I cannot remap my brain for it as the game gives me an error message declaring I suffer from clinical lycanthrope. So WC5 is going to take a good 35 days to train and even I am sure Ill be forced to train FC5 eventually. All of them are volunteers.

The group's kill records is slowly edging back up to equal wallet damages and its getting better by the week at least and I say we got about 4000 'active' pilots who log on regularly though out the day and week. I only got the command of 400 of members more or less and under wartime conditions I can expect that number to swell. I have plenty of logistics officers so I can run the war non stop if it weren’t for the fact that experience and lack of fleet commanders being the only two bottlenecks.

If it comes to kicks and punches we'll get SAK and STI involved as well maybe Caldari provisions if I felt generous. Either way unless they're working at null alliance levels with capital ships you're not going to enjoy a war against SWA. Chances are I already have loyalist in your corp if you do and we would love nothing more than to gut a corp to fund the rest of our efforts. It’s like a pinata full of catnip! All I have to do is point the herd of cats at it. I would almost call it suicidal for any normal corp.

IF SWA becomes war deccable I want corp controls, it would make kicking the gankbears in the teeth and off a cliff so much easier. The one group of players I hate more than clueless idiot carebears are gankbears that makes derpy hooves look competent in pvp.

Just because you can shoot down a shuttle does not make you a pvper.
Real pvpers shoot things that have every intention of killing you first and I got a small horde of those pilots who's teeth I need to sharpen.

For the state!

Because nothing is more embarrassing than losing to a free ship.

-Vix

SWA Instructor, Commander Select Currently being blamed as SWA's CEO SWA PVP Program

elenasa
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#125 - 2012-04-04 18:23:35 UTC
Beekeeper Bob wrote:
Reaver Glitterstim wrote:
I'm thinking all NPC corps in EVE except the starter corps should have wars with other corps in EVE, and players in one NPC corp could shoot war targets from another hostile NPC corp freely in empire space. And you should probably have a limit to how long you can sit in the starter corp.



Why is this a problem?

It's a sandbox, they have choices. Sounds like you just want easier targets........Shocked




Nail's head well and truly struck.


Why do people want to force people to do something they dont want to do, intead of doing it with people who enjoy doing it.
If you go on a roam through lowsec and nul you'll eventually get some pvp, and itcould be really good pvp. But no. Some people want to stay in a safe place killing chickens and pretending they are the big guys instead of trying to tackle something a little more dangerous. I bet the people agreeing with OP like to see themselves as the tough guys on the street because they go around beating up the young kids.

Honestly, do you really believe you get respect for picking on weaker, easier targets?
Xorv
Questionable Acquisitions
#126 - 2012-04-04 19:08:56 UTC
Quartzlight Evenstar Icefluxor wrote:
Xorv wrote:

It's a boost to PvP, yes EVE is a game almost entirely revolving around conflict and warfare, and hence PvP.



IT IS A SANDBOX. GET OVER IT.


This one was for you, but you clearly missed it. Also give the CAPS a rest, it just makes you look even more stupid.

Xorv wrote:

It's a boost to the Sandbox as it eliminates Themeparkish gameplay that doesn't belong in a game like this. ..No a Sandbox MMORPG does not mean there should be an option for Themepark style gameplay you ninnies.

Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#127 - 2012-04-04 19:26:51 UTC
@Nicolo da'Vicenza - Your ideas intrigue me
@Xorv - Considering there is no choice of which NPC corp one falls to, how do you reconcile personal standings with ones default corp? As I recall the race of a capsuleer is unrelated to the place in the NPC world they choose. Additionally, I'm not sure what you are referring to when you say "themeparkish play." Could you elaborate?
Beekeeper Bob
Beekeepers Anonymous
#128 - 2012-04-04 19:50:18 UTC
Kattshiro wrote:
Beekeeper Bob wrote:
Reaver Glitterstim wrote:
I'm thinking all NPC corps in EVE except the starter corps should have wars with other corps in EVE, and players in one NPC corp could shoot war targets from another hostile NPC corp freely in empire space. And you should probably have a limit to how long you can sit in the starter corp.



Why is this a problem?

It's a sandbox, they have choices. Sounds like you just want easier targets........Shocked





I hate hi sec wars, but they are dodging the ability to be war dec'd as apposed to everyone else. And whats the draw back? Slightly higher tax rate, and can't set up a POS... Not a huge issue in high sec truth be told.

The NPC corps were created to help new players, and start out in safety where the sharks couldn't pounce and chase you relentlessly.

This safety should require more draw backs than it does. Honestly why should people get to avoid a mechanic that everyone else is susceptible to?
Thus you should pay for it. The almighty ISK SHALL BALANCE!



Again, "THEY ARE DODGING". you want to enforce your personal rules on someone else because it's not fair? How does that fit in a sandbox?

You don't want a sandbox, you want simple target practice that requires zero risk on your part....Lol


"The biggest issue in our society today is people's willingness to try and enforce their own views on other people. Thank you for again proving that games imitate life...."






Signature removed - CCP Eterne

Gogela
Epic Ganking Time
CODE.
#129 - 2012-04-04 20:32:27 UTC
Stellar Vix wrote:
stuff...

IF SWA becomes war deccable I want corp controls, it would make kicking the gankbears in the teeth and off a cliff so much easier.

mo' stuff...

...hmm. Well since we are playing the "what if" game (there's almost no way CCP will make NPC corps dec'able in the near future) what kind of corp controls would you need? I'll tell you what you can't have:

- The ability to kick a member. Eveyone gets to join who wants to, and nubs are shoved in your corp anyway. That is part of what makes an NPC corp an NPC corp and that cannot change.

- The ability to charge a tax of any kind. Nobody is "in charge" of the NPC corp, because it's run by NPCs!

- The ability to set standings. These are determined by missions, rat killing, and the NPC corporate entity.

So is that OK? Can you still work with that Stellar Vix? What are you looking for... something to do with fleet control?

I guess I don't know enough about those who are active in NPC corps. I don't know what the limitations are right now...

Signatures should be used responsibly...

Ocih
Space Mermaids
#130 - 2012-04-04 20:40:57 UTC
Loads of unfair PvP in Null Sec.
That's why you are window shopping the NPC corps though, right?
silens vesica
Corsair Cartel
#131 - 2012-04-04 20:49:58 UTC
Gogela wrote:
Stellar Vix wrote:
stuff...

IF SWA becomes war deccable I want corp controls, it would make kicking the gankbears in the teeth and off a cliff so much easier.

mo' stuff...

...hmm. Well since we are playing the "what if" game (there's almost no way CCP will make NPC corps dec'able in the near future) what kind of corp controls would you need? I'll tell you what you can't have:

- The ability to kick a member. Eveyone gets to join who wants to, and nubs are shoved in your corp anyway. That is part of what makes an NPC corp an NPC corp and that cannot change.

- The ability to charge a tax of any kind. Nobody is "in charge" of the NPC corp, because it's run by NPCs!

- The ability to set standings. These are determined by missions, rat killing, and the NPC corporate entity.

So is that OK? Can you still work with that Stellar Vix? What are you looking for... something to do with fleet control?

I guess I don't know enough about those who are active in NPC corps. I don't know what the limitations are right now...
That should be adequate - It would have to be adequate, as you quite accurately point out the restrictions that must remain in place.

Tell someone you love them today, because life is short. But scream it at them in Esperanto, because life is also terrifying and confusing.

Didn't vote? Then you voted for NulBloc

Gogela
Epic Ganking Time
CODE.
#132 - 2012-04-04 20:53:51 UTC
Ocih wrote:
Loads of unfair PvP in Null Sec.
That's why you are window shopping the NPC corps though, right?

NPC corps are not really corps. I don't think anyone who has any ambition, creativity, sense of adventure, or blood lust should be in a NPC corp at all. Start your own corp at the very least to achieve limited goals. Join a big corp if you want to do big stuff or burn the universe to the ground. Join an NPC corp if you don't know wtf is going on and want to sit on the sidelines to see how people are playing the game.

Signatures should be used responsibly...

Stellar Vix
State War Academy
Caldari State
#133 - 2012-04-04 20:54:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Stellar Vix
Gogela wrote:
Stellar Vix wrote:
stuff...

IF SWA becomes war deccable I want corp controls, it would make kicking the gankbears in the teeth and off a cliff so much easier.

mo' stuff...

...hmm. Well since we are playing the "what if" game (there's almost no way CCP will make NPC corps dec'able in the near future) what kind of corp controls would you need? I'll tell you what you can't have:

- The ability to kick a member. Eveyone gets to join who wants to, and nubs are shoved in your corp anyway. That is part of what makes an NPC corp an NPC corp and that cannot change.

- The ability to charge a tax of any kind. Nobody is "in charge" of the NPC corp, because it's run by NPCs!

- The ability to set standings. These are determined by missions, rat killing, and the NPC corporate entity.

So is that OK? Can you still work with that Stellar Vix? What are you looking for... something to do with fleet control?

I guess I don't know enough about those who are active in NPC corps. I don't know what the limitations are right now...


Acceptable.

I want Corp Mail, Corp channel MOTD, Corp Issuable Medals, Corp Forum, Topic Powers, War Powers, Assignable and removable corp roles with thier limitations.

Then on a far stretch 1% of the taxes in corporate wallets only spendable into populating a "SWA Store" that issues free gear based on a time and rank metric to keep the war going.

-Vix

SWA Instructor, Commander Select Currently being blamed as SWA's CEO SWA PVP Program

silens vesica
Corsair Cartel
#134 - 2012-04-04 21:04:15 UTC
Gogela wrote:
Ocih wrote:
Loads of unfair PvP in Null Sec.
That's why you are window shopping the NPC corps though, right?

NPC corps are not really corps. I don't think anyone who has any ambition, creativity, sense of adventure, or blood lust should be in a NPC corp at all. Start your own corp at the very least to achieve limited goals. Join a big corp if you want to do big stuff or burn the universe to the ground. Join an NPC corp if you don't know wtf is going on and want to sit on the sidelines to see how people are playing the game.
Or, in the case of SWA and Vix, learn some basics from a willing and patient FC before heading out 'into the wild.'

Tell someone you love them today, because life is short. But scream it at them in Esperanto, because life is also terrifying and confusing.

Didn't vote? Then you voted for NulBloc

Gogela
Epic Ganking Time
CODE.
#135 - 2012-04-04 21:05:22 UTC
Stellar Vix wrote:
Gogela wrote:
Stellar Vix wrote:
stuff...

IF SWA becomes war deccable I want corp controls, it would make kicking the gankbears in the teeth and off a cliff so much easier.

mo' stuff...

...hmm. Well since we are playing the "what if" game (there's almost no way CCP will make NPC corps dec'able in the near future) what kind of corp controls would you need? I'll tell you what you can't have:

- The ability to kick a member. Eveyone gets to join who wants to, and nubs are shoved in your corp anyway. That is part of what makes an NPC corp an NPC corp and that cannot change.

- The ability to charge a tax of any kind. Nobody is "in charge" of the NPC corp, because it's run by NPCs!

- The ability to set standings. These are determined by missions, rat killing, and the NPC corporate entity.

So is that OK? Can you still work with that Stellar Vix? What are you looking for... something to do with fleet control?

I guess I don't know enough about those who are active in NPC corps. I don't know what the limitations are right now...


Acceptable.

I want Corp Mail, Corp channel MOTD, Corp Issuable Medals, Corp Forum, Topic Powers, War Powers, Assignable and removable corp roles with thier limitations.

Then on a far stretch 1% of the taxes in corporate wallets only spendable into populating a "SWA Store" that issues free gear based on a time and rank metric to keep the war going.

-Vix

One thing we know well in EvE is that everyone is corruptible (or at least that is a prudent assumption to make). Any controls you want have to have a set of basic principals that keep the NPC organization overall incorruptible, as they are now (this incorruptibility is the only thing standing between nubs and a goon abyss).

- Players can't take or manipulate NPC corp funds. Would need a new medal system.
- Players can't discriminate against other players in NPC corps, meaning no kicking them from corp chat (you will need private director channels) and no kicking NPC corp members from the forum.

Other than that sounds fine and doable for cheap.

Signatures should be used responsibly...

Xorv
Questionable Acquisitions
#136 - 2012-04-04 23:01:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Xorv
Tyberius Franklin wrote:

@Xorv - Considering there is no choice of which NPC corp one falls to, how do you reconcile personal standings with ones default corp? As I recall the race of a capsuleer is unrelated to the place in the NPC world they choose. Additionally, I'm not sure what you are referring to when you say "themeparkish play." Could you elaborate?


To answer your first question, It should be changed. Default NPC corp for a character should be based on standings or player choice. For example if it was based purely on standings it could work like this... A player character not in a player Corp, has their NPC Corp chosen for them based on their Standings. Highest Standing indicates Corp, and this can frequently change due to changes in standing. To determine the NPC Corp First the Highest Faction Standing, then the Highest Corp Standing within that Faction. Any changes take effect during downtime.

To your second question what do I mean by "Themeparkish play". It's highly controlled and predictable gameplay that runs counter to the open world and undirected gameplay of the Sandbox. It's like when you go to a Themepark, you go on rides, there's an illusion of interaction, unpredictability, even danger, but in truth the outcome is consistently predictable.

Some examples of typical Themepark type gameplay in MMORPGs:

Separates PvP from PvE, you advance and gain power in a linear path through PvE and then if the game includes it you can optionally duel with other players or go to Arenas or Battlegrounds to test your might vs other players. There's rarely any cost to loosing, and what happens in these PvP scenarios has no real effect of game world beyond.

Linear advancement of your character, with a very clear path to follow.

There's no real losers in the game, everyone that puts in the time can get from point A to B just like everyone else. Further players are firewalled from any possible negative impact of other players

Players have very little impact on one another or the game world. Content is created almost exclusively by the developers, (where in a Sandbox players are given the freedom and tools to create their own content)

Examples of Themepark features and mechanics in EVE: CONCORD/Crimewatch, High Sec Missions and Incursions, Faction War (some will argue that it's not, but it's akin to a PvP/Lore flag, and outside of the market has no impact on the game world at large.

Anyway I could ramble on about this for ages I'm sure you get the picture.
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#137 - 2012-04-05 01:04:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Tyberius Franklin
Xorv wrote:
Tyberius Franklin wrote:

@Xorv - Considering there is no choice of which NPC corp one falls to, how do you reconcile personal standings with ones default corp? As I recall the race of a capsuleer is unrelated to the place in the NPC world they choose. Additionally, I'm not sure what you are referring to when you say "themeparkish play." Could you elaborate?


To answer your first question, It should be changed. Default NPC corp for a character should be based on standings or player choice. For example if it was based purely on standings it could work like this... A player character not in a player Corp, has their NPC Corp chosen for them based on their Standings. Highest Standing indicates Corp, and this can frequently change due to changes in standing. To determine the NPC Corp First the Highest Faction Standing, then the Highest Corp Standing within that Faction. Any changes take effect during downtime

To your second question what do I mean by "Themeparkish play". It's highly controlled and predictable gameplay that runs counter to the open world and undirected gameplay of the Sandbox. It's like when you go to a Themepark, you go on rides, there's an illusion of interaction, unpredictability, even danger, but in truth the outcome is consistently predictable

Some examples of typical Themepark type gameplay in MMORPGs:

Separates PvP from PvE, you advance and gain power in a linear path through PvE and then if the game includes it you can optionally duel with other players or go to Arenas or Battlegrounds to test your might vs other players. There's rarely any cost to loosing, and what happens in these PvP scenarios has no real effect of game world beyond

Linear advancement of your character, with a very clear path to follow

There's no real losers in the game, everyone that puts in the time can get from point A to B just like everyone else. Further players are firewalled from any possible negative impact of other player

Players have very little impact on one another or the game world. Content is created almost exclusively by the developers, (where in a Sandbox players are given the freedom and tools to create their own content

Examples of Themepark features and mechanics in EVE: CONCORD/Crimewatch, High Sec Missions and Incursions, Faction War (some will argue that it's not, but it's akin to a PvP/Lore flag, and outside of the market has no impact on the game world at large

Anyway I could ramble on about this for ages I'm sure you get the picture.

I understand what you are saying regarding themepark play, but I would have to say I disagree that anything particularly like that exists at this point

People can be interfered with in highsec. They can hinder and destroy one another. An entire series of tactics and methods have developed from people trying to maximize these efforts. If highsec was truly safe then yes, we have a theme park.
Vyl Vit
#138 - 2012-04-05 01:39:15 UTC
We tend to consider solutions after a problem is identified. As the OP doesn't meet this standard, his post shall be categorized as "digital nailbiting." Please, make the appropriate adjustment to your browser.

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Paradise is like where you are right now, only much, much better.

Stellar Vix
State War Academy
Caldari State
#139 - 2012-04-05 01:44:44 UTC
I already have to accept I cannot kick people out.
I however should have rights to demote officers which kicks them out of the leadership channel if put in charge.
Also just in case I don't live to live forever I want the corp to be able to pick their own CEOs.

I also would like an ISD forum moderator to swing on by and help moderate any isk spam or corporate recruit spamming in the forums.

-Vix

SWA Instructor, Commander Select Currently being blamed as SWA's CEO SWA PVP Program

Merovee
Gorthaur Legion
Imperium Mordor
#140 - 2012-04-05 01:57:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Merovee
Reaver Glitterstim wrote:
I'm thinking all Empire NPC corps are hostile to role-playing hostile Empires, players in one NPC corp could shoot war targets from another hostile NPC corp freely in low-sec empire space.


Fixed it for youP

Still thinking High sec should be safe from war-dec, as well as blocking access into each others high-sec. I also think there should not be any high sec connections between the NPC Empires.

Empire, the next new world order.