EVE General Discussion

Your arguments lack validity.

Your basing your whole argument on the claim that being in an NPC corp is risk free. Since an NPC player dies every couple seconds, that seems to make that argument invalid. Being in an NPC doesn't protect you, it simply means it's a bit harder to kill you, and more costly...nothing else.

After reviewing that line of reasoning, it seems to say to most people that what you realy want is risk free pvp.
You don't want to have to fight people that like to fight back, you prefer the bears, who have no interest or experience in it.

So, doesn't sound like you want a sandbox, unless you control the sand....

So what risks are taken by joining a NPC corp that a player-run corporation does not take?
What risks does an NPC corp member take in exchange for 100% guaranteed CONCORD protection?

Shouldn't be throwing rocks in that glass house.

While this trend is true for the vast majority of people in general, I am of the small slice of people who actually care about the general quality of the community, regardless of how it impacts me as an individual. But I'm no saint--there are many just like me, though there are many more who are not.

I am offering support for the idea that people should not be able to hide from wardecs primarily because people abuse that privilege (as seen strongly with botting). I stand nothing to gain personally from this mechanics change. I am not a corp director, and I'm not likely to be in charge of declaring war any time soon. Nor am I in a corporation that declares war at all, let alone fights against highsec bears. If I want to take personal action against these botters, I'm going to have to do it the old fashioned way, regardless of whether or not the wardec mechanics change. But that doesn't change the fact that it makes a lot of sense.

Now if more of my haters could also learn to see past your own nose, maybe you could see that the health of the community around you really does matter more than some little rewards or privileges you might reap at the long-term expense of everyone else.

100% protection is under the assumption you couldn't hurt someone at all. That means, you can't fire at them. Which...doesn't exist in EVE once you undock

The only protection CONCORD gives, are repercussions. The fact that Player A who shoots Player B in an NPC corp without aggression rights, grants Player A an ass whupping very much like what their parents used to give them when they were younger for doing something stupid so Player A never does it again (Read: Pavlov and his dogs, classical conditioning). It gives consequences to Player A, because before CONCORD was implenented Player B was so tired of just losing that he quit EVE which was a consequence to CCP for giving all reward no risk to Player A (if you can't even play the game, lose so much that you tire of it, why pay to continue to play for something giving you nothing ?). CCP implements CONCORD, now all of a sudden numbers increase...which is a good thing....BUT YOU CAN STILL SHOOT THEM!

Because, you know, way back when Player A had the advantage to just run rampant through EVE Player B was always losing that they just left the game entirely that 5k active players at the time is such a great move for CCP. In fact lets remove Highsec, CONCORD with nothing else changing, and with in six months time I can come back after CCP has made a big announcement that would generally not be good news to go "HAHA! TOLD YOU SO!" because without repercussions to Player A then Player B would still be in game. Trust me, if you had you way with EVE and any human kept losing they wouldn't bother to pay CCP to continue losing for your entertainment (You pay for me to play your way, then **** yeah I will be willing to die on your dime...until then I pay I play my way).

Consider yourself aware then.

You can't make the argument of suicide ganking an NPC member... You can do that to anyone, any time anywhere in high sec, (And get concorded and lose your ship)

But they are immune from a war dec... Which everyone else isn't. The repercussions for staying after a certain period of time aren't negative enough to move on.

Why should players be immune from a mechanic (war dec) after they've played for a significant amount of time? (Noobs get protection I understand that.) The negatives aren't nearly enough.... 11%... wow... No POS... well you're in high sec not a huge issue unless you want to copy or research stuff...(at your own leisure instead of the wait times)

I still fail to see why War Decs are so terrible that the need to disable the ability to dodge them would warrant putting pressure on new players.

Wouldn't a War Dec on a one player corp (of which we would see a lot should non-NPC corps become mandatory, at least with those who would like to do what they wanted, not what someone else wants) not just lead to War Deccers blow money and get bored while camping stations or gates all the while the decced player does something useful instead of playing EVE (or more constructive, puts in a couple week skill queue, and plays on an alt)?

The Costs of War

While I would prefer to have as many wars as I like for nothing, I can see the rationale for basing dec costs on player population. Here's why: My corp is very small and totally uncoordinated. If I dec an alliance with 5000 people, here is what would happen: They would run around like chickens with their heads cut off trying to find one or two players that might be logged in... that's a waste of their players and not much fun. Eventually, if they even bothered to fight, they would forget about it and ignore my dec completely. Now there are 5000 people playing just floating around here or there and maybe a freighter or a transport gets caught in some far flung system. I profit. If it costs me nothing to do this, I could dec half of eve and they wouldn't actively seek me out, but it would allow me to construct one-of encounters that amount to little more than high sec piracy. While the prospect of that is awesome for me, I recognize that's not really a legit playing strategy. Is my corp a credible threat to the giant alliance? Hell no. Not remotely. However, I can use the free dec system to flag only the alliances I target for combat in high sec. That balances the conflict completely in my favor. They can't hurt a corp with no in-space assets, and the agressed alliance can't hope for a good fight because my corp simply doesn't have the numbers... not that we would be looking for a fair fight if they we did. By charging per member, I as the agressor need to get a little bit more specific about what I'm trying to achieve. As opposed to casting a universe wide net to catch whomever happens to cross my path on autopilot, I might actually need to find their actual logistical routes and be able to ballpark what they carry and what they are worth per kill. I might even have to actually *gasp* fight because I am paying to be at war with each and every member. I need to make sure those costs can be recovered in average single combat or ransoms, or there's not any profit there. By tying war costs to member count, we also avoid a "Privateers" situation where a gang just decs the universe and kills everyone at Jita 4-4. (Watching the privateers do that years ago was one of my fav thing I've seen in eve... hilarious!)

Final Note

For those of you that are directors or CEOs and are genuinely interested in the future of war decs, I strongly advise you also watch the threads on Crimewatch. There are several tie ins to the war dec system that are relevant and may answer some of your questions. I was as skeptical as any and b****** and raged like anyone else as I watched the current war dec system wither away into nothingness, but I'm sold on the new approach. It all works. There are some things I would like to be tweaked in the plan too... but for the most part I'm really looking forward to the new system and it seems pretty fair across the board (as much as I would like it tilted my way).

Because it's all connected, and people in NPC corps don't rate the ISK rewards that player corps get. You can play however the hell you want. You just can't play how you want and GET everything you want.

^
Because someone made it so you wont play the game for 2 weeks... I know plenty like that idea.

Underlying problem is also that you can't war dec for legit reasons... EG: Industry. We war decc'd a one man corp and kept it up to move his out of a market. Mining bots stay in NPC's to avoid being targeted. (yes yes you can gank them...but more efficient to war dec em and keep them out of business longer.)

There are legit reasons for dec's besides you thinking someone wants "lulz"