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Ship balancing chart: What CCP really thinks about each ship

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Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#61 - 2012-04-03 17:19:45 UTC
Imajitaaltofanalt ofanalt wrote:
Hashi Lebwohl wrote:
The minmatar are always the step child when in comes to handing out the presents. Typically , Amarr get the great armour buff, caldari get the shield buff, gallente get the damage buff , (pause whilst searching the bottom of the bag) minmatar gets the furry sweet nobody else wanted.


Is this why Minmitar>Gallente?


It's always fun to be the cool boy up to BS but then have to waste ages to xtrain another race capitals. C/D?

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Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#62 - 2012-04-03 17:20:54 UTC
Herping yourDerp wrote:
Hashi Lebwohl wrote:
The minmatar are always the step child when in comes to handing out the presents. Typically , Amarr get the great armour buff, caldari get the shield buff, gallente get the damage buff , (pause whilst searching the bottom of the bag) minmatar gets the furry sweet nobody else wanted.


yea but projectiles aren't considered the best weapons or anything


Because ships live in a vacuum, where their cap and their tank capabilities don't matter in the overall balance at all. Oh wait.

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Karash Amerius
The Seven Shadows
Scotch And Tea.
#63 - 2012-04-03 18:33:27 UTC
Regarding the fake bonuses of energy turrets to Amarr ship designs: It has been said since '03, just increase their damn capacitors and give them real bonuses to weapon systems. Sure the capacitor increase in either total capacity or recharge time is useful in many areas, but that is a GOOD THING, and not overpowered, especially since Amarr designs have pioneered capacitor nuets.

Just increase the Cap on hulls, and remove the energy turret fake bonuses. That would solve a LOT of problems with Amarr hulls.

Karash Amerius Operative, Sutoka
Arkady Sadik
Gradient
Electus Matari
#64 - 2012-04-03 18:45:07 UTC
The fake bonus to RoF for projectiles is annoying, too. Just make the weapons better.
Also, this fake bonus to speed for the Vagabond is annoying. Could you please incorporate that into the base hull.
Speaking of which, the Drake's fake resist bonus is annoying. Just give it better base resists.

Yes, this is silly.

Balance is not achieved by calling individual items "bad". There are excellent Amarr laser ships. There is no problem with the capacitor bonus. Quite to the contrary, giving them a flat-out better cap would make some ships incredibly silly, because - believe it or not - cap is used for other things than shooting, too.

Luckily, CCP is well aware of this.
Hainnz
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#65 - 2012-04-03 22:40:13 UTC
Quit being so damned conservative and just change the ships around already. You guys act like everything is so damned hard. It's not rocket science. Just ******* do it.
Masamune Dekoro
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#66 - 2012-04-03 23:14:57 UTC
Hashi Lebwohl wrote:
minmatar gets the furry sweet nobody else wanted.


Confirming all Minmatards are furries.
Reaver Glitterstim
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#67 - 2012-04-04 00:23:58 UTC
Karash Amerius wrote:
Regarding the fake bonuses of energy turrets to Amarr ship designs: It has been said since '03, just increase their damn capacitors and give them real bonuses to weapon systems. Sure the capacitor increase in either total capacity or recharge time is useful in many areas, but that is a GOOD THING, and not overpowered, especially since Amarr designs have pioneered capacitor nuets.

Just increase the Cap on hulls, and remove the energy turret fake bonuses. That would solve a LOT of problems with Amarr hulls.

The cap bonus is not a fake bonus. Let me clarify it for you:

Normal ship gets +5% damage bonus to turret
Amarr ship gets -10% capacitor bonus to turret instead

Normal turret does xx damage which varies by range and overall utility
Laser turret does xx * 1.25 damage and just costs a ton of capacitor to compensate.

THE CAPACITOR BONUS IS A DAMAGE BONUS BECAUSE LASERS DO MORE DAMAGE AND COST MORE CAPACITOR

FT Diomedes: "Reaver, sometimes I wonder what you are thinking when you sit down to post."

Frostys Virpio: "We have to give it to him that he does put more effort than the vast majority in his idea but damn does it sometime come out of nowhere."
Jojo Jackson
Dead Red Eye
#68 - 2012-04-04 03:54:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Jojo Jackson
Reaver Glitterstim wrote:
Karash Amerius wrote:
Regarding the fake bonuses of energy turrets to Amarr ship designs: It has been said since '03, just increase their damn capacitors and give them real bonuses to weapon systems. Sure the capacitor increase in either total capacity or recharge time is useful in many areas, but that is a GOOD THING, and not overpowered, especially since Amarr designs have pioneered capacitor nuets.

Just increase the Cap on hulls, and remove the energy turret fake bonuses. That would solve a LOT of problems with Amarr hulls.

The cap bonus is not a fake bonus. Let me clarify it for you:

Normal ship gets +5% damage bonus to turret
Amarr ship gets -10% capacitor bonus to turret instead

Normal turret does xx damage which varies by range and overall utility
Laser turret does xx * 1.25 damage and just costs a ton of capacitor to compensate.

THE CAPACITOR BONUS IS A DAMAGE BONUS BECAUSE LASERS DO MORE DAMAGE AND COST MORE CAPACITOR

Sorry but this is not true anymore. It might be like this in the past ... but stuff changed.

Maller with 3 Heat Sink T2 + 5 Heavy Pulse + Multi = 299 DPS (same as Covert Legion as you can get MAX 5 unbonused guns!!)
Maller with 3 Gyro T2 + 5 425mm Auto + EMP = 268 DPS
Just 31 more DPS

Legion Drone Offense with 5 Hammer II + guns
3 HS + 4 HP + Conf = 544 DPS
3 Gyro + 4 425mm + Hail = 513 DPS
Again just 31 more DPS

For the maller it's less then +15%, for the Legion not even +10% damage. So they miss 10-15% damage!
If I have to decide to do 31 more DPS or can chose damage type AND need SERO cap ... **** this +31 DPS ;).

PS: just for joke
Rupture:
3 Gyro + 4 425mm (4 NOT 5) + EMP = 358 dps +3 Hammerhead = 453 DPS + 2 HAM launcher = 515 DPS (no Balistics till now).
That's not to far away from Legion with Drone sub and tops Legion with Cover sub (rofl) using Laser. Maller is overshadowed by nearly 75%.

PPS:; yes, I know noone would actual fly a Ruptur with auto cannons and HAM ;).
And yes, you can EFT much more using mods for bazilion ISK. But I prefare T2 standart stuff for this compare.

Why the hell can't I fitt capital repairs or shield booster on an Orca ... it's an CAPITAL ship!
General Shogun
Free Candy Get In The Van
Free Candy Get In The Van Alliance
#69 - 2012-04-04 04:03:47 UTC
Enkryption wrote:
Wondered why they needed a panel to tell everyone what they already knew.


They are not from Texas
Reaver Glitterstim
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#70 - 2012-04-04 04:25:02 UTC
Jojo Jackson wrote:
stuff.
You might be right. O.o If you are, then......who's idea was it to nerf laser damage?

FT Diomedes: "Reaver, sometimes I wonder what you are thinking when you sit down to post."

Frostys Virpio: "We have to give it to him that he does put more effort than the vast majority in his idea but damn does it sometime come out of nowhere."
Benny Ohu
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#71 - 2012-04-04 04:30:41 UTC
I think the only 'fake' bonuses are things like the Amarr Industrial bonuses for the Prorator (blockade runner)... Plus 5% cargo and velocity? And I needed level five to climb into the ship anyway? :D

The Amarr Frigate bonuses for the Retribution (assault frigate), on the other hand, are 'real' bonuses, even if they act more like role bonuses because I had level five already.

Or is there some freaky maths thing about the Prorator's Amarr Industrial bonuses that I'm missing?
Selinate
#72 - 2012-04-04 04:35:06 UTC
I'm glad the legion is red, then. There are only a select few subsystem combos that work well, a few that *work* and a lot that are completely useless.
Markus Reese
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#73 - 2012-04-04 05:58:13 UTC
Benny Ohu wrote:
I think the only 'fake' bonuses are things like the Amarr Industrial bonuses for the Prorator (blockade runner)... Plus 5% cargo and velocity? And I needed level five to climb into the ship anyway? :D

The Amarr Frigate bonuses for the Retribution (assault frigate), on the other hand, are 'real' bonuses, even if they act more like role bonuses because I had level five already.

Or is there some freaky maths thing about the Prorator's Amarr Industrial bonuses that I'm missing?


That is because the T2 variants of many ships maintain the T1 version they are built off of if applicable. I would need to actually do work for the check, but I bet if you looked at the sigil, it has the same T1 bonuses. Or something less useful

To quote Lfod Shi

The ratting itself is PvE. Getting away with it is PvP.
Cyrina Manto
RBS Inc.
#74 - 2012-04-04 06:18:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Cyrina Manto
Reaver Glitterstim wrote:
Jojo Jackson wrote:
stuff.
You might be right. O.o If you are, then......who's idea was it to nerf laser damage?



Umm... get t2 lasers already? If you are whining about cap usage or "only" 30 more dps when scorch has a wtf optimal range... And conflag is not half bad either, take already high per turret DPS and boost it moar.