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Ship balancing chart: What CCP really thinks about each ship

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Grimpak
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#41 - 2012-04-03 13:09:57 UTC
Arkady Sadik wrote:
- Navy phoon, navy pest are semi-broken



while I agree that the navy pest is semi-broke, the case of the navy phoon is quite relative.

unless it's the looks, then the phoon is, indeed, broken, independently of whatever version you're talking about.

[img]http://eve-files.com/sig/grimpak[/img]

[quote]The more I know about humans, the more I love animals.[/quote] ain't that right
Jame Jarl Retief
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#42 - 2012-04-03 13:35:36 UTC
Well, if nothing else, the chart puts the whole "Gallente are fine" argument to rest. Finally. Lol

Now, to see what actually gets fixed, and how. Just hope they remember that drones were meant to be a Gallente racial weapon, just like missiles on Caldari and projectiles on Minmatar, and treat them accordingly.
Fidelium Mortis
Minor Major Miners LLC
#43 - 2012-04-03 13:39:49 UTC
Alain Kinsella wrote:
I don't see the issue with the normal Omen. At low skills you can run a 4-turret config, then at higher skills graduate to a 5-turret setup (5 high-end Beams can be tricky IIRC). I grew into that ship rather nicely actually.

Same with the Sigil. Smaller and agile, a nice step down from an Impel if you're just doing casual shuffling things about (like a bunch of P1s from a planet). And it was free if you did the career tutorials. What's not to like?

Maller and Aug I can understand being a problem. Never seen much of a use for those.



The cap bonus on the omen is practically a waste for a ship that is supposed to be the primary gun-based damage ship for the Amarr cruisers. Compare the omen to the viability of the thorax, vexor, caracal, and especially the rupture and it just doesn't match up.

ICRS - Intergalactic Certified Rocket Surgeon
IGNATIUS HOOD
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#44 - 2012-04-03 13:56:59 UTC
Nedes Betternaem wrote:
Xurr wrote:
The ones i were referring too was the addition of a bounty to the drones.

Eh... I guess if you live in drone space that might be important. Otherwise, I still think salvage drones will do more to lower demand for marauders than the removal of rogue drone mineral drops.



I'm not sure I agree. I think what I'll do is swap out the lone salvager and replace it with a 3rd tractor beam and use salvage drones while I loot the wrecks that I pull in close. Dragging the wrecks in close will let the drones work faster since they won't be flying all over the place.

Although if salvage drones are anything like mining drones they will be less than useless IMO.
"Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats."   --H.L. Mencken
stoicfaux
#45 - 2012-04-03 13:58:18 UTC
marVLs wrote:
Are You F... Kidding me? Golem on green?

I don't want to live on this planet anymore...

Agreed, the Golem is Meh.


DarkAegix wrote:
Imajitaaltofanalt ofanalt wrote:
Xurr wrote:
Its a bit interesting they consider all the marauders to be fine.

With the coming drone changes i see them losing what little value they have now.



What drone changes??

Salvage drones

Meh, if the drones can't loot, then they're not adding a whole lot of value since salvage prices are so low (and will get lower if people start using salvage drones.) OTOH, a Vargur, which doesn't deploy drones too often, could fit three tractors and a flight of salvage drones, thus maximizing loot gathering and mitigating salvage drone flight time.

Pon Farr Memorial: once every 7 years, all the carebears in high-sec must PvP or they will be temp-banned.
Jojo Jackson
Dead Red Eye
#46 - 2012-04-03 14:07:34 UTC
Are you sure with the T1 Amarr frigs

I don't belive the Punisher is "OK". I'd rather say the Executioner is "OK" but the Punisher .... well, ALL Amarr ships with "xx cap/level for guns" are broken as they are have a fake-bonus instead of a real bonus

There is a reason why people fly nearly all of them with Projectil weapons instead of Lasors

Why should I use cap at all if I can do the same damage with damage type selection without using cap

This is true for
- Crucifir
- Magna
- Punishe
- Malle
- Legion Drone offens
- Legion Covert offens
- Prophec

And it is partial true for all other with cap/level laser as all this ships miss a TRUE bonus like RoF, Damage, Resist, range, tracking.

Why the hell can't I fitt capital repairs or shield booster on an Orca ... it's an CAPITAL ship!
Jerick Ludhowe
Internet Tuff Guys
#47 - 2012-04-03 14:09:19 UTC
Roime wrote:


Yes, that's why only semi-broken. The problem I have with it is it's dps compared to Vexor. Same bandwidth, no weapon bonus.

Myrm should get the 100mbit/s to bring it's damage output over a Vexor.




QFT
Dato Koppla
Balls Deep Inc.
Minmatar Fleet Alliance
#48 - 2012-04-03 14:35:59 UTC
Jojo Jackson wrote:
Are you sure with the T1 Amarr frigs

I don't belive the Punisher is "OK". I'd rather say the Executioner is "OK" but the Punisher .... well, ALL Amarr ships with "xx cap/level for guns" are broken as they are have a fake-bonus instead of a real bonus

There is a reason why people fly nearly all of them with Projectil weapons instead of Lasors

Why should I use cap at all if I can do the same damage with damage type selection without using cap

This is true for
- Crucifir
- Magna
- Punishe
- Malle
- Legion Drone offens
- Legion Covert offens
- Prophec

And it is partial true for all other with cap/level laser as all this ships miss a TRUE bonus like RoF, Damage, Resist, range, tracking.


QFT, useless bonus is useless, if lasers were a whole lot better than the other weapon systems I'd understand, but they aren't and forcing the ships to take on a bonus that isn't really bonus but rather just making the ship useable.
Rimase
#49 - 2012-04-03 14:40:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Rimase
I think they're doing alright. Leave CCP to it because they know they're in **** already, and surely only good can from now on. :P

Also, I don't mind if they re-introduce some ships in a later month with their new balance or even new purpose.

Looking to join Caldari Faction Warfare corporation!
Nova Fox
Novafox Shipyards
#50 - 2012-04-03 14:52:20 UTC
Cept in CCPs labeling of 'broken' is ships are nobody flies in its grouping.

Dust 514's CPM 1 Iron Wolf Saber Eve mail me about Dust 514 issues.
Andrea Griffin
#51 - 2012-04-03 14:54:43 UTC
Hashi Lebwohl wrote:
The minmatar are always the step child when in comes to handing out the presents. Typically , Amarr get the great armour buff, caldari get the shield buff, gallente get the damage buff , (pause whilst searching the bottom of the bag) minmatar gets the furry sweet nobody else wanted.
And yet Minmatar is still considered king in certain styles of combat. You also forget the significant projectile buff that wasn't too long ago, where all of the ammunition was improved upon.

CCP Sreegs is my favorite developer.
Ciar Meara
PIE Inc.
Khimi Harar
#52 - 2012-04-03 14:59:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Ciar Meara
DarkAegix wrote:
Hey everybody,
In the fanfest ship balancing presentation, there was a chart shown with all the T1/T2/T3/Faction ships, colour-coded according to how CCP sees them.
Red = Broken
Yellow = Semi-broken
Green = Working as intended


The funny thing is that all the broken ships overlap across the races (mostly). Its more a situation of faulty classes.

- [img]http://go-dl1.eve-files.com/media/corp/janus/ceosig.jpg[/img] [yellow]English only please. Zymurgist[/yellow]
ITTigerClawIK
Galactic Rangers
#53 - 2012-04-03 15:12:33 UTC
CCP Ytterbium wrote:
Clever girl.

OP is too smart for his own good, please all look at this magic flashy-thing pen while we put some sunglasses on...

More seriously, there are reasons why no ship names were on that chart.


  • The list is by no mean fixed, and ships we consider to be broken change all the time. Especially since this is a long term planned change.
  • The list is also highly biased to the reader. Depending on your experience, profession in EVE you may not find it accurate, and for good reasons. For instance, a Raven may be quite ok for mission running pilot, but far less appealing for a player engaged in long null-sec fleet warfare.
  • We wanted to avoid nitpicking discussions about which exact ships can be considered as broken, and just a provide a general review of the game status. During Fanfest, we were far more interested to move the discussion forward during the roundtables / questions on how to improve the ship status, not to spend most of our time arguing on which vessels are broken or not Blink.


can we please get a dev blog on some proposed changes to be coming to at least the frigates in the next few weeks or so, or least some comments on what may be happening here. the suspense is killing me ... quite literealy. thouhg im mostly looking to see the T1 Cruiser changes tbh esepculy to the omen. and tbh the navy omen should be what the T1 Omen should have been if you ask me.
Plyn
Uncharted.
#54 - 2012-04-03 15:32:18 UTC
ITTigerClawIK wrote:
CCP Ytterbium wrote:
Clever girl.

OP is too smart for his own good, please all look at this magic flashy-thing pen while we put some sunglasses on...

More seriously, there are reasons why no ship names were on that chart.


  • The list is by no mean fixed, and ships we consider to be broken change all the time. Especially since this is a long term planned change.
  • The list is also highly biased to the reader. Depending on your experience, profession in EVE you may not find it accurate, and for good reasons. For instance, a Raven may be quite ok for mission running pilot, but far less appealing for a player engaged in long null-sec fleet warfare.
  • We wanted to avoid nitpicking discussions about which exact ships can be considered as broken, and just a provide a general review of the game status. During Fanfest, we were far more interested to move the discussion forward during the roundtables / questions on how to improve the ship status, not to spend most of our time arguing on which vessels are broken or not Blink.


can we please get a dev blog on some proposed changes to be coming to at least the frigates in the next few weeks or so, or least some comments on what may be happening here. the suspense is killing me ... quite literealy. thouhg im mostly looking to see the T1 Cruiser changes tbh esepculy to the omen. and tbh the navy omen should be what the T1 Omen should have been if you ask me.

Chances are, if you're this excited you probably already read this, but I think this is the best way to unbrake most of the ships.

Tiericide will allow all those unflown ships to finally be able to fill the roles they were designed for.
Rimase
#55 - 2012-04-03 15:32:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Rimase
I'd like to Faction Warfare shiplines been in the loop, too, by being all 'Improved' variations of Standard / Economized TECH1.
KEY: These Militia variations and their modules cannot be placed on Market nor Reprocessed but can be Traded via Stations earned only by being part of Militia. They are Military-standard (not Civilian-standard) and thus are Improved.



DarkAegix wrote:
Hey everybody,

All Black Ops ships: Broken
That may be so, and so I've already suggested something that can so easily tie-in with most Fanfest concepts and in-developments particularly for Black Ops.
I had a cool idea for a new shipline with the introduction of the whole shiplines, which make sense for Black Ops, smuggling, marauders and pirates. Also introducing new sub-legalities into EVE.

Here it is: Clandestine Shiplines
(Hidden identities, sub-legal ships, Black Ops, contraband & Smugglers!)

Looking to join Caldari Faction Warfare corporation!
Imajitaaltofanalt ofanalt
State War Academy
Caldari State
#56 - 2012-04-03 15:53:19 UTC
Hashi Lebwohl wrote:
The minmatar are always the step child when in comes to handing out the presents. Typically , Amarr get the great armour buff, caldari get the shield buff, gallente get the damage buff , (pause whilst searching the bottom of the bag) minmatar gets the furry sweet nobody else wanted.


Is this why Minmitar>Gallente?
Rimase
#57 - 2012-04-03 15:56:33 UTC
a 'Logistics Shipline' really ought to be considered, too, right?
The ships that support and command.

Looking to join Caldari Faction Warfare corporation!
Lili Lu
#58 - 2012-04-03 16:11:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Lili Lu
So many people falling for the OP. What?

Yes, yes of course this person was able to decifer the chart and what CCP will be doing. Roll
Herping yourDerp
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#59 - 2012-04-03 16:43:22 UTC
Hashi Lebwohl wrote:
The minmatar are always the step child when in comes to handing out the presents. Typically , Amarr get the great armour buff, caldari get the shield buff, gallente get the damage buff , (pause whilst searching the bottom of the bag) minmatar gets the furry sweet nobody else wanted.


yea but projectiles aren't considered the best weapons or anything
ITTigerClawIK
Galactic Rangers
#60 - 2012-04-03 16:55:56 UTC
Plyn wrote:

Chances are, if you're this excited you probably already read this, but I think this is the best way to unbrake most of the ships.

Tiericide will allow all those unflown ships to finally be able to fill the roles they were designed for.


i have indeed read all the way through that and watched the ship balancing panel but what i ment was some more specific stuff like to the individual ships like giving us a look at what they had in mind towards changing HP amount and slots and the like for the frigates and such as well as perhaps bonus changes and preferably a racial inherent bonus to free up a bonus no ships so we have another damage or resist bonus for amarr ships rather than the dam cap bonus..