Science & Industry

if you sell below mins value, I may do any of

(a) reproc your goods and build something valuable with your mins
(b) reproc your goods and sell the mins
(c) keep your goods until the market recovers. which may be as little as 10 minutes after your order is cleared
(d) take your good elsewhere to sell.

IMO since people selling below mins cost lose 10% or more of what they could earn all the time, they never really come to mean much market wise anyway - they lose the essential profit margin that would grow their businesses to being price setting meaningful. When you do what you do, you only earn money at roughly the rate you yank it out of rocks.

In any case look up opportunity cost, and recognise that if you do something that earns you 10mil of something an hour, and forgo doing something that earns you 30mil an hour, you are doing nothing other than losing yourself 20mil an hour (presuming risks are equivalent).

ugh oh.

If this is a troll
1/10

but ill bite anyways.

I had a realy hard time reading all the stuff you wrote, but since the gist of such posts doesnt change much i think i get what your saying.

Fact is minerals you mine are not free, because they have a certain market value so once you have mined, lets say 333 Veldspar which equates 1000 Tritanium you have gained about 5450 Isk.

Those ISK are not part of your Isk pool, you still have to sell them to get access to the isk, in order to reinvest them into something else thats true.

However your total character value, which includes your liquid isk as well as the total sales value of all you goodies, has infact increased by 5450 ISk.

Ok now lets assume that you build something with those 1k Tritanium and sell it for 5000 ISK, while your Liquid ISk have increased by 5000 ISK, your total character value has decreased by 450 ISK, since you could have also sold the Tritanium for 5450 ISK.

So you might be able to sell ships cheaper than others when you use the minerals you have mined yourself and you will still see more liquid ISK on your Bank account at the end of the day, however the total value of your character has in fact decreased then since you have sold the minerals below their market value.


Judging from some of the spelling mistakes you made i suspect that you'r probably german, i could also explain it to you in your native tongue if you didn't understand what i was trying to say, just drop me a PM. :)

Ok the short story of this is. You mined 1 mill Veldspar and now have 3 options:

(a) Sell the minerals for 15 mill
(b) Spend 1 more days to make a ship and sell it for 13.5 mill
(c) Find a BPO/BPC that will make an item in 1 day that sells for 20 mil

To those that chose (b), we always tell the old phrase "minerals that you mine are not free". You see we always wonder why they don't just sell the minerals. It takes like 1 sec to do that. Instead many go as far as building ships that require up to 14 days of building before they can sell it. And in the end they sell it for less that the minerals would have sold instantly to Buy orders.

We do the following in our corp:
We buy lots of minarals and produce stuff.
Sometimes we like to go out mining. If we do so we make sure our corp is the top buyer and then sell our minerals to our corp.
That way our mining makes profit for the one doing the mining and our prices are not messed up by seemingly free isk.

Excuse me for not offering as much insight or going into quite as much depth with my response as these fine gentleman have been but,

Minerals are free? That's the dumbest thing I've heard in a while. And I'm surrounded by some god-damn dumb people on a day-to-day basis.

No! Mined minerals are definately NOT free! In your mind it might give you some 'play' to reduce your selling prices of items you produce but you are screwing both yourself and the market.

Do some maths and work out your costs: BPO/BPC, POS fuel etc if doing invention/research on BPO,etc. Add up all the minerals required to produce a run of the item and work out what you would receive if you sold them on the market and/or what it cost to buy them from the market. Find somewhere where you can sell the item making xx% profit. If it is not possible to sell the item and make a profit but profit can be made from selling the minerals you mine then sell your mined minerals. Or find another item that a profit can be made on.

Basically it comes down to a few simple facts.

If you need to mine your own minerals just to make it so you do not lose money making an item than you are making the wrong item, or you skills are to low to make a profit manufacturing.

If you need/use mining to supplement your income that is great nothing wrong with that. But in the scenario you described you would be further ahead just selling the minerals you mine, rather than using them in manufacturing an item that you are losing money on.

for example if you are making an item that sells for 50 mil isk, you have 40 mil worth of the needed mats, but still need 15 mil worth of Trit to complete it. You can mine the 15 mil worth of trit and say your time mining it was worth less than 15 mil so you could sell at 50 mil for a profit. Your manufacturing may break even, however you are still losing 5 mil out of your mining profits by doing this as that trit could have been sold for 15 mil.

Many new manufacturers do this, as until you have production efficiency 5 and a decent BPO or BPC to work off of very few T1 items are profitable. The single most important skill in manufacturing is production efficiency 5 it affects the amount of waste(additional mats needed) for anything you make. if you do not have it to 5 most items will be worth less than the mats you need to make them.

PE5 and some decent BPO/BPC's to work from will allow you to make profit. All the rest of thge manufacturing skills just increase speed or number of slots you can use. PE5 is the main skill affecting profits, other skills just increase profit by increasing capacity.

If you do not have PE 5 you can by items cheaper than you can make them. Considering how skill intensive manufacturing is, it is a short time to wait fro PE 5 to train before diving in. use that time to by and research some BPO's or buils up a stock pile of materials(mats). You will be glad you did.

Even with perfect manufacturing and trading skills there is very little profit to be made in Jita off T1 items, usually around 3-5% in my experience. For those getting into manufacturing your best profits will be selling ammo in mission hubs rather than trying to sell in Jita. However you could make almost as much just buying the ammo in jita and moving it to the trade hubs.

Bad troll is bad. You should immediately delete your toon and head back to WoW.

^this, honestly.

If you think someone is listing items below fair market value, you're free to buy & relist at what you feel is appropriate.