EVE General Discussion

Of course it's a sandbox. You are entirely free to do what you want with the tools at your disposal. Your choices come with consequences, though.

If you want to train no combat skills whatsoever, you either have to be sneaky ever so slightly careful about it and not get ganked, or you can push the mission to transport the goods off onto other players, or you can use alts, or… [etc]. It's the price you pay for being a more varied or more efficient manufacturer.

If you want to do it yourself, you can do that too, but that will come at the cost of being a less efficient industrialist (or… maybe more efficient, if it makes you more resilient to those attacks — who knows?). Either way, nothing is keeping you from doing what you want to do. You just have to do it within the confines of the universe we have built together, and if you choose a suboptimal strategy just because… well, just because, then that's your choice and yet another thing that the sandbox allows you to do.

You are allowed your activities, and I'm allowed mine. This includes me doing things to you that you will not like, and you doing things to me that I might not like. What you're missing here is that it's a multiplayer sandbox, which doesn't mean that you can do what you want — it means everyone can do what they want. Limiting what others can do, as proposed in the OP, is very non-sandbox:y and just breaks things as previously illustrated.

Not really. If he suicides your hauler, you are able to suicide him. Actually, with the current mechanics, you are able to just kill him without the suicide part. If you were able to dec him just because he blew your hauler up, he should be able to dec you just because you -0.01:ed him. That would be consistent…

A. No, but I seem to get that a lot

B. Yes it does fine in combat.

Gotta start somewhere vOv

Might as well be with the completely risk free ganking mechanic which is what the OP was talking about. Want to talk wardecs, make another thread.

Mr Epeen

One of my haulers tanks better than many battleships. One of my other haulers is all but invincible in high sec.

No. You can still kill them yourself via killrights, suicide gank them, hire mercs to suicide gank them and will soon have crimewatch.

The burn jita campaign is a month away and people are already panicking.

[quote=Vince Snetterton]But how about modifying it so a ganker can't hide in an NPC corp

If you want to gank someone in high sec, you have to be in a PC corp, and once you gank someone, you can't jump to an NPC corp for 48 hours

I think this would eliminate some of the frustration miners / industrialists feel, while keeping the mechanic intact.[/quote

Nothing can protect you from a suicide ganker who has staged a neutral orca in the system to drop ships anyplace in safe spots they desire. Or a neutral alt who can fly the same ship used to gank with can just eject out of it in a safe for the ganker to board. Gankers have friends. Wardecing a corp a suicide ganker is in is useless. There is no point specially if they are outlaws. They are immune to face to face fights because they are not practical because of concord and NPC cops on their tail as soon as they undock. They can pick who to kill if somebody thinks they are safe to mine tho or haul. You have the help of the cops and concord until you wardec then gankers can just take more time on killing what can be killed in a limited time window. The faction cops are not as bad as concord and give a little more time to the ganker. Mission runners and freighters get hit pretty hard all the time with suicide ganker fleets

The point is to do damage, and possibly to make a lot of money from it. They could care less what they lose as long as they get a kill out of it. Most likely they will just ignore everybody unless there is a weak link. Otherwise they will go to others to kill and not much you can do to stop them besides attempting to smartbomb their pod as they undock but then you die horribly to concord because smartbombing in highsec is not a good idea. Could try to probe them down and its always a game of cat and mouse. Otherwise they are like honey badgers, they don't give a shirt, they do their thing regardless! Any counter to gankers is just unpractical. Also tornado's can snipe out past +150 so with a cloaked ship moving around as their alt, they can simply land anyplace on the grid away from your rooks or DPS ships to counter them. Besides by the time they are even noticed and locked on to, they have already shot off their guns and killed something the sec they land while dieing to concord. So the so called protection doesn't help much since 99% of ganks end in the first shot fired as soon as they land on the grid. If you wardec a ganker corp and mine at the same time, it only makes your miners easier pray because then they become fair game without concord stepping in, though the faction cops are still annoying.

You know what I love about Eve Online? Darwinism eventually sorts everything out. The perpetual victims end up either hardening up or quitting.

It's beautiful.

Actually he can deck my hauler character for any reason at all, the character is not in an NPC corp. If somebody is going to go shooting people, they should suffer the consequences, all of the consequences. Once of those consequences is the myself and my corpmates can seeking revenge disproportionate to the harm claimed. A kill right only lets me kill you once, not hunt you down like a dog and kill your and your friends ships repeatedly.

In fact I would say that trying to hide from your victims seeking revenge makes you a carebear. You victims want to PvP as CCP designed it to be implemented, with the option to escalate to all out warfare. You are blocking that.

Never ending rawr on whiners miners. You have rights to shoot them.. so do it. Or hire guys to kill them.. or you know pay the fee's whatever..

I always suffer the concequences... More whining...

If you train an Industrialist without any combat skills (Be that defensive oriented) in a place like New Eden you deserve to be food for the predators. Just because it is a sandbox does not mean you have to be an idiot. New Eden is not a friendly place.

So let me ask you a question instead. You are a new capsuleer entering New Eden, a known hive of scum, villainy, piracy where the Empire is barely keeping its borders secure. Would you be trying to defend yourself or would you just skip merrily along the rainbows?

Yeah.