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[Proposal] CSM Member Real Life Names

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Arkon Olacar
black.listed
#41 - 2012-03-31 13:16:06 UTC
Quartzlight Evenstar Icefluxor wrote:
I say to not cave in to those particular elements within EVE. They will have 'won'.


Especially with the way some sectors of EVE players s***talk (they just don't know when enough is enough though), even this extreme talk is probably not serious, just NOT thinking and more than likely it is (again) alcohol influenced.

Better to deal with law enforcement (with NO delay) if necessary like last night on a case by case basis ahould this arise again in the future.

Upd: EVE needs to have the 'bad boy on the block" reputation, but now it seems more like the 'psychotic idiot on the block'. Alliance and Corp members need to 'eyeball' thier members better. These behaviors are usually evident in some fashion BEFORE these things happen. But then the type they hang around with probably think it's funny.

Update 2: I see the GOONS are really FOR this. And MAINLY Goons. I smell a rat. CSM and CCP really better THINK HARD before doing away with RL names. Seems to me like someone is trying to pull a stunt and get away with something anonymously. More than likely they have found an exploit of a sort. I'd be REAL careful here.................

Update 3: Re-read the article about all of this. I'd be careful (I can't stress that enough) and REALLY BE SURE that was not somebody's idea of a bad joke on that radio show. Something seems staged about it. THAT needs to be looked into as well.

Besides, a CSM composed of anonymous Toons will not be taken very seriously at all, and may as well not exist.

Signed, James Causey, Palm Harbor, FL


So you are saying that a perfectly good, reasonable and logical idea should not be implemented simply because goons are suggesting it? That is pathetic. Truly pathetic.

There is no reason for this information to be published automatically, CCP are the only ones who need to know the personal details of the CSM, they are the only ones who should be automatically told. If a candidate chooses to reveal more personal information about themselves, that is their decision.
ReBeLSKuLL
The Bastards
Sedition.
#42 - 2012-03-31 13:22:55 UTC
supported.

The EVE community should not be mixed up with a persons real life details. Too many separate events have already marked and shown us the way the community works and act in various situations. I trust CCP, I am in doubt though when it comes down to single units within this community.

OH LOOK, HERE, ANOTHER EVE PVP BLOG. BETTER CHECK IT:

http://rebeleden.blogspot.gr
Jadecougar
Doomheim
#43 - 2012-03-31 13:32:03 UTC
Totally agree with the OP!

There's no reason the real names and locations are needed to be published to the playerbase at all. CCP needs that information for NDA reasons, travelling, and other practicalities obviously.

IN GAME names are most critical and they are the ones that we identify with anyway.

Threatening someone's family and property in real life because of activities from a video game is NEVER OK. This just makes sense. Period.
DurrHurrDurr
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#44 - 2012-03-31 14:10:20 UTC
After the abhorrent threats posed against The Mittani in real life, the EVE: Online community has demonstrated that it is not mature or responsible enough to handle the release of real identities as part of the CSM.
Blawrf McTaggart
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#45 - 2012-03-31 14:14:42 UTC
Quartzlight Evenstar Icefluxor wrote:
I say to not cave in to those particular elements within EVE. They will have 'won'.


Especially with the way some sectors of EVE players s***talk (they just don't know when enough is enough though), even this extreme talk is probably not serious, just NOT thinking and more than likely it is (again) alcohol influenced.

Better to deal with law enforcement (with NO delay) if necessary like last night on a case by case basis ahould this arise again in the future.

Upd: EVE needs to have the 'bad boy on the block" reputation, but now it seems more like the 'psychotic idiot on the block'. Alliance and Corp members need to 'eyeball' thier members better. These behaviors are usually evident in some fashion BEFORE these things happen. But then the type they hang around with probably think it's funny.

Update 2: I see the GOONS are really FOR this. And MAINLY Goons. I smell a rat. CSM and CCP really better THINK HARD before doing away with RL names. Seems to me like someone is trying to pull a stunt and get away with something anonymously. More than likely they have found an exploit of a sort. I'd be REAL careful here.................

Update 3: Re-read the article about all of this. I'd be careful (I can't stress that enough) and REALLY BE SURE that was not somebody's idea of a bad joke on that radio show. Something seems staged about it. THAT needs to be looked into as well.

Besides, a CSM composed of anonymous Toons will not be taken very seriously at all, and may as well not exist.

Signed, James Causey, Palm Harbor, FL


Your entire argument against this idea is simply "hm lots of people in GSF are voting for so we should vote against!"

You're despicable.

Signed,

Blawrf McTaggart.
Dutaun
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#46 - 2012-03-31 14:14:47 UTC
/signed

No one should have to go through what The Mittani has!
Kitfox Mikakka
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#47 - 2012-03-31 14:22:49 UTC
I'm honestly somewhat confused over why CCP had CSM members reveal their out of game identities and whatnot at all, past a generic 'CCP has bad ideas' deal. Sure, the company needs to know who you are and stuff, but the community as a whole sure as hell doesn't need to and sure as hell can't be trusted with it, as a whole bunch of people have shown over the past week or two.
RDevz
State War Academy
Caldari State
#48 - 2012-03-31 14:27:55 UTC
This is a great idea, if only to stop a load of creepy chucklefucks posting people's real names on the eve-o forums.

~
Ugleb
Jotunn Risi
#49 - 2012-03-31 14:28:32 UTC
I generally agree with the need for caution, but I do have one issue with this, and it might even be the reason why CCP chose to publish names in the first place, I dunno.

If the real names off applicants are removed from the process, doesn't that increase the chance of a player with a poor reputation using an alt to run for the CSM?

There may be players who would not vote for a certain candidate because of a past action (say The Mittani) or because of a poltical association (a certain alliance etc) but who would vote for his publicly unknown alt that is 'untainted' by a colourful past.

While revealing a real world identity could be abused, it also helps to identify individual players from largely anonymous character identities that can be legitimately bought or sold.

If real names were removed from the process, there should be another means of identifying players beyond the character name they choose to compete with.

An alt of The Mittani would still benefit from the channelled support of Goonswarm, but be freed of much of the current controversy now on his shoulders. Is that right?

http://uglebsjournal.wordpress.com/

The Jotunn Risi are now recruiting, Brutor ancestry required in order to best represent the Brutor interest.  Join channel JORIS to learn more!
Bayushi Tamago
Sect of the Crimson Eisa
#50 - 2012-03-31 15:02:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Bayushi Tamago
I've heard a decent amount about the threats Mittens has received.
So, I support this as well, and suggest that perhaps evetv/fanfest should stop using players' real names as well and just use character names, just like they do with the CCP employees.

Not broadcasting players' real names, whether restricted to the csm or not, will help players and CCP avoid further media slandering in the future

Edit: While taking out the country might be a good idea, without the names, they don't mean much. Some people might vote because someone from their country is running, so perhaps keep a category about what primetime they fall under or something. It's still vague while still potentially enabling regional voting for anyone who actually might do that (for whatever reason)
sakurako
State War Academy
Caldari State
#51 - 2012-03-31 15:08:13 UTC
i'm not a fan of The Mittani and what he said did make feel sick, what he did was wrong, but to do real life threats to anyone is just as bad.

Want to get back at him or anyone do it via war dec/invade just keep it in game and under the rules of the game.

i support this. +1
Arkon Olacar
black.listed
#52 - 2012-03-31 15:09:23 UTC
Ugleb wrote:
I generally agree with the need for caution, but I do have one issue with this, and it might even be the reason why CCP chose to publish names in the first place, I dunno.

If the real names off applicants are removed from the process, doesn't that increase the chance of a player with a poor reputation using an alt to run for the CSM?

There may be players who would not vote for a certain candidate because of a past action (say The Mittani) or because of a poltical association (a certain alliance etc) but who would vote for his publicly unknown alt that is 'untainted' by a colourful past.

While revealing a real world identity could be abused, it also helps to identify individual players from largely anonymous character identities that can be legitimately bought or sold.

If real names were removed from the process, there should be another means of identifying players beyond the character name they choose to compete with.

An alt of The Mittani would still benefit from the channelled support of Goonswarm, but be freed of much of the current controversy now on his shoulders. Is that right?


You forget one thing - controversy does not mean someone cannot get elected. As long as this was not dodging a ban on running for CSM - CCP would need to investigate, using real names and billing info which they and only they should possess - then there is no reason why Mittens or Darius or anyone else who has made themselves infamous by their actions should be able to stand.

Plus the alt would need to develop a good reputation before non-voting bloc members would vote for him. If Mittens stood for election for CSM using an unknown alt, and commanded all goons to vote for him, he would receive goon votes and maybe a dozen more of so. If he stood as The Mittani, he would receive all goon votes and hundreds, if not thousands, of non-goons who like his attitude or policies.

As shown by the voting results of CSM 7, an unknown toon without the support of a voting bloc will gather no votes. Even high profile but inept candidates received a pitiful number of votes. To get elected, you either need the support of a voting bloc - goons will vote for The Mittani, whether standing as The Mittani or an alt - or you need to be a competant, high profile candidate who has been a key part in the community for a number of months, potentially years. So these concerns about alts 'abusing' the system really are minimal, especially compared to candidates personal contact details potentially being abused, a la mittensgate.
Arkon Olacar
black.listed
#53 - 2012-03-31 15:14:01 UTC
Bayushi Tamago wrote:
I've heard a decent amount about the threats Mittens has received.
So, I support this as well, and suggest that perhaps evetv/fanfest should stop using players' real names as well and just use character names, just like they do with the CCP employees.

Not broadcasting players' real names, whether restricted to the csm or not, will help players and CCP avoid further media slandering in the future

Edit: While taking out the country might be a good idea, without the names, they don't mean much. Some people might vote because someone from their country is running, so perhaps keep a category about what primetime they fall under or something. It's still vague while still potentially enabling regional voting for anyone who actually might do that (for whatever reason)

Agreed. Either country of residence or timezone would be a good thing to include - and explains why toons that are relatively unknown (as far as I am aware) in the Eve-O community gather large numbers of votes in the election, presumably mainly from their native voting bloc.
Aylleen
Die Hard Carebears
#54 - 2012-03-31 15:18:24 UTC
Liang Nuren wrote:
So with all of this in mind, I believe that the CSM white paper should be amended in such a way that the CSM candidates (and eventual CSM members) real names and countries of origin are not given to the player base as a whole - but strictly to CCP.
-Liang


I agree, but I would like to amend your proposal. Any CSM delegate - or an EVE Online player for that matter - that discloses personal information pertaining another player, or if he or she commits an act - both in-game or OCC - that is illegal (like inciting to suicide), should be banned permanently. Reporting the crime to authorities by CCP should be mandatory.

Extensive leeway are given to people who play the game. They can grief, gank, kill, bash, destroy, all for the purpose of good laughs. It's the "sandbox" - whatever that means.

But those who have great privileges should also have great responsibility. You can't commit not even ONE illegal act. You cannot break the laws of your host country by inciting people to harass your enemy until he suicides.

That's where the line must be drawn. That is the fact that many here are conveniently dismissing. This proposal -as it is - will only protect CSM delegates, who are already powerful players within the game.

We regular players should be also protected from them. And I am not talking about a 30-day ban.

I am Aylleen, and I approve this message.
Richard Desturned
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#55 - 2012-03-31 15:22:06 UTC
Aylleen wrote:
I agree, but I would like to amend your proposal. Any CSM delegate - or an EVE Online player for that matter - that discloses personal information pertaining another player, or if he or she commits an act - both in-game or OCC - that is illegal (like inciting to suicide), should be banned permanently. Reporting the crime to authorities by CCP should be mandatory.


That is already the case.

npc alts have no opinions worth consideration
JamesCLK
#56 - 2012-03-31 15:24:13 UTC
/signed

-- -.-- / -.-. .-.. --- -. . / .. ... / - --- --- / . -..- .--. . -. ... .. ...- . / - --- / ..- -. -.. --- -.-. -.- / ... - --- .--. / .--. .-.. . .- ... . / ... . -. -.. / .... . .-.. .--. / ... - --- .--.
Arkon Olacar
black.listed
#57 - 2012-03-31 15:29:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Arkon Olacar
Aylleen wrote:
Liang Nuren wrote:
So with all of this in mind, I believe that the CSM white paper should be amended in such a way that the CSM candidates (and eventual CSM members) real names and countries of origin are not given to the player base as a whole - but strictly to CCP.
-Liang


I agree, but I would like to amend your proposal. Any CSM delegate - or an EVE Online player for that matter - that discloses personal information pertaining another player, or if he or she commits an act - both in-game or OCC - that is illegal (like inciting to suicide), should be banned permanently. Reporting the crime to authorities by CCP should be mandatory.

Extensive leeway are given to people who play the game. They can grief, gank, kill, bash, destroy, all for the purpose of good laughs. It's the "sandbox" - whatever that means.

But those who have great privileges should also have great responsibility. You can't commit not even ONE illegal act. You cannot break the laws of your host country by inciting people to harass your enemy until he suicides.

That's where the line must be drawn. That is the fact that many here are conveniently dismissing. This proposal -as it is - will only protect CSM delegates, who are already powerful players within the game.

We regular players should be also protected from them. And I am not talking about a 30-day ban.

Sorry, what? How will this protect CSM delegates? CCP will still have the real life contact details, as they do for any player, and CCP already report harrassment cases to the relevant authorities. This thread is simply asking for CSM candidates to be treated like any other player with regards to their personal details - hardly an unreasonable request. I don't understand what actual change you are asking for - this just sounds like a subtle request for The Mittani to be permabanned, and that is not what this thread is about. 'Mittensgate' has been dealt with, case closed.
Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings
#58 - 2012-03-31 15:30:00 UTC
Liang Nuren wrote:

We as a player community have proven that we are not responsible enough, not mature enough, and not sane enough to be trusted with this information and this proposal is meant to help our upcoming CSM candidates - those whose real names aren't known yet.


True fact. The community was very disappointing in that respect.

Supported.

Accidentally The Whole Frigate - For-newbies blog (currently on pause)
Nagapito
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#59 - 2012-03-31 15:46:23 UTC
/signed
Graf Sarn
#60 - 2012-03-31 16:09:58 UTC
Supporting the OP