These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

EVE General Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
Previous page123
 

I never thought I'd say this.....

Author
Kara Roideater
#41 - 2012-03-31 11:46:32 UTC
Luh Windan wrote:


And while you are all applying the letter of the law - how is the massive, now RL, attack on Mitani not bullying?



By the massive attack on the Mitanni, you mean people discussing and reporting what he did? I'm sure you wouldn't be foolish enough to suggest that everyone who has criticised him or reported his words should be treated as equivalent to someone who makes RL threats because that would represent the most complete failure of reasoning possible.

Discussing the genuinely bad things that someone has done is not bullying. Directly encouraging people to take unwarranted action against that person would be bullying. In the hundreds of pages of threads I have read on this I have come across almost no posts that could be construed in any way as bullying the Mittani. So, how is the massive 'attack' on the Mittani not bullying? Because legitimate criticism is legitimate.
Rengerel en Distel
#42 - 2012-03-31 11:51:16 UTC
If the guy that started this whole thing can admit he was wrong and take responsibility for his actions, why can't all his supporters? The only ones seemingly piling on now are the ones that keep bringing it up. On the internet, if you stop talking about it for 5 min, it just goes away.

With the increase in shiptoasting, the Report timer needs to be shortened.

Dalton Arillo
State War Academy
Caldari State
#43 - 2012-03-31 12:09:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Dalton Arillo
100 % agree with the OP.
It was a stupid, tasteless joke, nothing more. The Wis probably would have never known about it, if it weren't for all the crusaders on the forums.
Interesting fact: CCP actually approved the evemail for presentation! Which can only mean they didn't take it seriously either. If a person's really mentally unstable, the showing of the evemail alone could have triggered a meltdown, even if the character was not specifically named.

But this whole ruckus never was about the Wis' wellbeing anyway, was it?
Rico Minali
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#44 - 2012-03-31 12:14:47 UTC
Dalton Arillo wrote:

But this whole ruckus never was about the Wis' wellbeing anyway, was it?


No it wasnt. It was about the in game enemies of the CFC using a situation to achieve something that they could not achieve in game. Nothing more.

Trust me, I almost know what I'm doing.

Jake Warbird
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#45 - 2012-03-31 12:20:36 UTC
Alara IonStorm
#46 - 2012-03-31 12:26:30 UTC
Rico Minali wrote:
Dalton Arillo wrote:

But this whole ruckus never was about the Wis' wellbeing anyway, was it?


No it wasnt. It was about the in game enemies of the CFC using a situation to achieve something that they could not achieve in game. Nothing more.


Thank god, I thought it was about the line: Incidentally, if you want to make the guy kill himself, his name is... Because CCP not taking action would condone the ability of a player to marshal people to harass players who may be at risk of suicide.

I mean I voted for the Mittani because I thought he was trying to take CCP in a good direction but now that I know that I am just a Goon hater with no other motive I can just go ahead and support statements like this.

Justa Altlol wrote:
remark about someone who sounded like they deserved it anyway

Roll

Perhaps the majority of people are outraged by the implication that someone encouraged others to harass a possibly mentally distressed person without knowledge if was distressed...

Nah, it's a Goon hate thing. What?
MatrixSkye Mk2
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#47 - 2012-03-31 12:49:03 UTC
Rengerel en Distel wrote:
If the guy that started this whole thing can admit he was wrong and take responsibility for his actions, why can't all his supporters? The only ones seemingly piling on now are the ones that keep bringing it up. On the internet, if you stop talking about it for 5 min, it just goes away.

Alexander Gianturco's actions were, for the most part, premeditated. What he apologized for is being drunk and not remembering what he said. Not for writing a PPT about a possibly suicidal victim. To him and his goons it is a joke. And if the victim would have committed suicide I have no doubt in my mind it just would have been more 'punch' to their joke. Because people like these guys simply are unable to distinguish where the game ends and real life begins. They simply lack that part of the brain that makes those connections. And they're also very proud of this disability.

After his 'genuine' apology he went on a rant and rage on how he is being "crucified" over this and how he really doesn't act like this in real life while encouraging his legion of idiots to increase their meta game play by causing massive grief on the game and to drive as many people away from Eve as possible. Because that is how the goons "play". They use the game as a grief tool and call it playing. And then, get mad when called on it.

In short, Mr Gianturco has not taken responsibility for his actions. He's mandating his legion of idiots to do as much damage as they possibly can to CCP and its playerbase. This is real life revenge, not a 'genuine' apology.

Successfully doinitwrong™ since 2006.

Josefius
13th Tribe of Kobol Expeditionary
#48 - 2012-03-31 13:01:46 UTC
I've been saying this from day one of this bullshit, but glad someone else is coming around to reason.

You have enemies? Good, that means you stood up for something, sometime in your life.

-Winston Churchill

Ivana Twinkle
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#49 - 2012-03-31 13:05:12 UTC
OP: We're not here to be good guy so stop slandering our good name.
Xander Riggs
Federal Navy Historical Society
#50 - 2012-03-31 13:07:57 UTC
Alara IonStorm wrote:
Rico Minali wrote:
[quote=Dalton Arillo]
But this whole ruckus never was about the Wis' wellbeing anyway, was it?


Nah, it's a Goon hate thing. What?


It is. It was a turn of phrase. If Mittani had said 'make his life miserable' it would be the same thing, but would not have garnered nearly the momentum it did.

How many times have people said 'Goddamnit, if [x] happens, I'll ******* kill myself!" when mad? Do you send every one of those people to a shrink?

The situation has been dealt with. It's over. Punishment handed down. Full stop.

But here we are, with people still railing, frothing at the mouth, demanding not only Mittani get the shaft but that the Goons go down by proxy. People calling for legal action, making death threats, out for blood. All the carebears suddenly grew fangs the second they aw an opening that wouldn't lead a cruise missile right up their thermal exhaust ports, and they took it...and they keep taking it. If this was about what Mittani said, we wouldn't still be having this conversation, because the white knights would have sheathed their swords of righteous indignation when he was punished.

They won't do that, though. This is to juicy.

"A man with a drone-boat has nothing but time on his hands."

Rico Minali
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#51 - 2012-03-31 13:10:31 UTC
Alara IonStorm wrote:
Rico Minali wrote:
Dalton Arillo wrote:

But this whole ruckus never was about the Wis' wellbeing anyway, was it?


No it wasnt. It was about the in game enemies of the CFC using a situation to achieve something that they could not achieve in game. Nothing more.


Thank god, I thought it was about the line: Incidentally, if you want to make the guy kill himself, his name is... Because CCP not taking action would condone the ability of a player to marshal people to harass players who may be at risk of suicide.

I mean I voted for the Mittani because I thought he was trying to take CCP in a good direction but now that I know that I am just a Goon hater with no other motive I can just go ahead and support statements like this.

Justa Altlol wrote:
remark about someone who sounded like they deserved it anyway

Roll

Perhaps the majority of people are outraged by the implication that someone encouraged others to harass a possibly mentally distressed person without knowledge if was distressed...

Nah, it's a Goon hate thing. What?


Pretty sure no one really likes what he said, I sure dont. What I am saying is that a huge amount of people jumped on the band wagon simply because he leads the CFC and no other reason. He was banned, he resigned the csm, he apologised, he sent the guy 11 billion isk.

Ive seen worse posted here on these forums than what he actually said at fanfest. I dont see anyone rightous anger being directed at them.

Trust me, I almost know what I'm doing.

Ban Bindy
Bindy Brothers Pottery Association
True Reign
#52 - 2012-03-31 13:10:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Ban Bindy
Oh, wow. None of the other 200 heads on this subject have made any difference to me but with this one I see the light. Revelation at last.

You like so many other people on the forums are presuming you know what's in everyone's mind concerning this. Very dumb.
Xander Riggs
Federal Navy Historical Society
#53 - 2012-03-31 13:11:40 UTC
MatrixSkye Mk2 wrote:


In short, Mr Gianturco has not taken responsibility for his actions. He's mandating his legion of idiots to do as much damage as they possibly can to CCP and its playerbase. This is real life revenge, not a 'genuine' apology.


Can the ****. You had no interest in an apology or his punishment. He could be cutting a pound of flesh off his body right now and you'd be bitching about how it should have been two.

"A man with a drone-boat has nothing but time on his hands."

Jaroslav Unwanted
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#54 - 2012-03-31 13:12:40 UTC
I am just an distant observer, i do not judge other people actions, they are what they are and they doing what they know.
I am just an distant observer.

They doing the best they can, but so does mass-murderers.
And i am just an distant observer.
MatrixSkye Mk2
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#55 - 2012-03-31 13:20:15 UTC
Xander Riggs wrote:
MatrixSkye Mk2 wrote:


In short, Mr Gianturco has not taken responsibility for his actions. He's mandating his legion of idiots to do as much damage as they possibly can to CCP and its playerbase. This is real life revenge, not a 'genuine' apology.


Can the ****. You had no interest in an apology or his punishment. He could be cutting a pound of flesh off his body right now and you'd be bitching about how it should have been two.


I was first actually poised in believing his apology, that is until he went off on a rampage encouraging his alliance to meta game like they never have before. So I'm thinking maybe you should **** off.

Successfully doinitwrong™ since 2006.

Asuri Kinnes
Perkone
Caldari State
#56 - 2012-03-31 13:20:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Asuri Kinnes
Shoot2kilI wrote:
The guy at the butt of the joke LITERALLY HAD NO IDEA that it had happened until he was informed of the fact

A. This is irrelevant.

B. If "Goons" hadn't cultivated (as a group) their reputation to such a degree, this never would have gained any traction.

C. Goon enemies *are* meta-gaming the **** out of this (Pot meet kettle).

D. Jokes about suicide, in a public venue, are not jokes.

E. I still believe that "alex's" apology was sincere, where I would never have believed that from "The Mittani".

F. Post on your ***-*** main - you have nothing to worry about except getting picked on... Roll
Dalton Arillo wrote:
Interesting fact: CCP actually approved the evemail for presentation! Which can only mean they didn't take it seriously either. If a person's really mentally unstable, the showing of the evemail alone could have triggered a meltdown, even if the character was not specifically named.

But this whole ruckus never was about the Wis' wellbeing anyway, was it?

Interesting fact - this has nothing to do with the approved slide show. It was the Q/A comments after. I would suggest reading comprehension classes, but it was ******* video...

Roll

Bob is the god of Wormholes.

That's all you need to know.

Darek Castigatus
Immortalis Inc.
Shadow Cartel
#57 - 2012-03-31 13:20:29 UTC
I have to agree with the OP, this has gone way way way beyond censuring someone for a tasteless and stupid remark.

Pirates - The Invisible Fist of Darwin

you're welcome

Alara IonStorm
#58 - 2012-03-31 13:23:42 UTC
Xander Riggs wrote:

It is. It was a turn of phrase. If Mittani had said 'make his life miserable' it would be the same thing, but would not have garnered nearly the momentum it did.

Yes the word Suicide is like gasoline when talking harassment but that example just shows that CCP needs to be more on the ball with harassment.

Not for PR Reasons but for the general well being for distressed people.
Xander Riggs wrote:

How many times have people said 'Goddamnit, if [x] happens, I'll ******* kill myself!" when mad? Do you send every one of those people to a shrink?

Yes. If they are constantly threatening suicide then they have mental issues and need treatment. If they are using it as a ploy then cops showing up to escort them to the hospital is a good example not to do it.
Xander Riggs wrote:

The situation has been dealt with. It's over. Punishment handed down. Full stop.

Some are happy with the decision and some are not so discussion will continue.
Xander Riggs wrote:

But here we are, with people still railing, frothing at the mouth, demanding not only Mittani get the shaft but that the Goons go down by proxy. People calling for legal action, making death threats, out for blood. All the carebears suddenly grew fangs the second they aw an opening that wouldn't lead a cruise missile right up their thermal exhaust ports, and they took it...and they keep taking it. If this was about what Mittani said, we wouldn't still be having this conversation, because the white knights would have sheathed their swords of righteous indignation when he was punished.

Their will always be people who discuss the implications of an event or speak to the degree's of consequences. That is simply debate and if they are just political positions then they can be safely ignored but if they have merit the reasons for raising the issue is not important because the message stands. I am no expert in law and frankly believe The Mittani got enough but that doesn't mean there shouldn't be a debate.

As for Harassing him, as I stated they need to be more on the ball. It is as wrong to harass The Mittani and The Wis. The perpetrators should be held to consequence. Whether in game penalties or legal action. But that is up for debate.
Alara IonStorm
#59 - 2012-03-31 13:31:08 UTC
Rico Minali wrote:

Pretty sure no one really likes what he said, I sure dont. What I am saying is that a huge amount of people jumped on the band wagon simply because he leads the CFC and no other reason. He was banned, he resigned the csm, he apologised, he sent the guy 11 billion isk.

There was good reason for the penalties handed down but people playing politics is annoying.

The important thing is to not ramp up the consequences because of outcry. He took his penalty standing up and if that is enough then all the politicals can shout at walls. If they increase his penalty beyond what is deserved then there is a problem.

I personally think he paid his due and it is over. Others will disagree and will discuss that but unless they can come up with a real reason besides I hate Goons then they can sit and spin.
Rico Minali wrote:

Ive seen worse posted here on these forums than what he actually said at fanfest. I dont see anyone rightous anger being directed at them.

Their doesn't need to be anger for those incidences. Just consequences.
Previous page123