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[RSS] Exploit notification: "Boomerang" - avoiding CONCORD in high security space

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Erlang- Shen
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#121 - 2012-03-30 23:10:27 UTC
Veshta Yoshida wrote:
PriorofDeath wrote:
The spirit of the law means nothing. The Rules state "warp off grid", so until CCP alters this statement I see no clear proof of law stating that a ban is justifiable for this act of violence.

Last I heard regarding hi-sec shenanigans was that anything trying to or succeeding at avoiding Concord gets hammered .. statement is from a couple of years ago when Cocnord were last buffed. Doubt the "rules" have changed in the meantime.

The notice given is an excessive courtesy (if such a thing exists) if you ask me Big smile


I do believe, when Goons where cornering the Oxygen Iso market at christmas time, they mentioned this mechanic and also mentioned the fact that it was an exploit.

Drawing Concord away from target location (Ice field) then warping to field to gank a couple of mackinaws. There was no defence for the "carebearers" and goons got a little extra ganking time.

As a miner you can not defend against a gank, the ships are not setup for that. The high alpha strike of short range will usually nullify any repper/booster you have on it. You cannot pre-emp the strike with an ECM module (burst) as you are aggressing and will get concorded.

So by time said destoyer has warp right on top of you, you are locked, scrammed and probably into structure before you could even initiate a warp.

Can any regular ganker, please tell me the defence against that.
Tarsus Zateki
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#122 - 2012-03-30 23:16:24 UTC
Erlang- Shen wrote:

As a miner you can not defend against a gank, the ships are not setup for that. The high alpha strike of short range will usually nullify any repper/booster you have on it. You cannot pre-emp the strike with an ECM module (burst) as you are aggressing and will get concorded.


Fitting a few nanofibers in your lows and warping out while a Maelstrom/Tornado/Thorax/Catalyst/Etc... is warping in is a pretty good defense against suicide ganks.

But that would require you to not be tabbed out of the game.

You asked me once, what was in Room 101. I told you that you knew the answer already. Everyone knows it. The thing that is in Room 101 is the worst thing in the world.
Erlang- Shen
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#123 - 2012-03-30 23:24:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Erlang- Shen
Tarsus Zateki wrote:
Erlang- Shen wrote:

As a miner you can not defend against a gank, the ships are not setup for that. The high alpha strike of short range will usually nullify any repper/booster you have on it. You cannot pre-emp the strike with an ECM module (burst) as you are aggressing and will get concorded.


Fitting a few nanofibers in your lows and warping out while a Maelstrom/Tornado/Thorax/Catalyst/Etc... is warping in is a pretty good defense against suicide ganks.

But that would require you to not be tabbed out of the game.


Even with all skills at level 5, and maxed nano in the lows. It would still be around 9 seconds to warp out.

If the ganker has had a scout. More likely cloaked. Taken into consideration warp in time, there would still be 3/4 second for target and scram. More than enough time.

I'm not against high sec ganking. I think it should be a realistic profession. But the mechanic of high sec also means that you have to wait to be shot before you a re-act back. The advantage should always be with the aggressor at that point.

This exploit just adds to that advantage. Thats all.

I have no idea how to fix this, I'm hoping high sec ganking continues. It keeps Ice prices high :-).
Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
Senpai's Afterschool Anime and Gaming Club
#124 - 2012-03-30 23:34:32 UTC
Erlang- Shen wrote:
Tarsus Zateki wrote:
Erlang- Shen wrote:

As a miner you can not defend against a gank, the ships are not setup for that. The high alpha strike of short range will usually nullify any repper/booster you have on it. You cannot pre-emp the strike with an ECM module (burst) as you are aggressing and will get concorded.


Fitting a few nanofibers in your lows and warping out while a Maelstrom/Tornado/Thorax/Catalyst/Etc... is warping in is a pretty good defense against suicide ganks.

But that would require you to not be tabbed out of the game.


Even with all skills at level 5, and maxed nano in the lows. It would still be around 9 seconds to warp out.

If the ganker has had a scout. More likely cloaked. Taken into consideration warp in time, there would still be 3/4 second for target and scram. More than enough time.

I'm not against high sec ganking. I think it should be a realistic profession. But the mechanic of high sec also means that you have to wait to be shot before you a re-act back. The advantage should always be with the aggressor at that point.

This exploit just adds to that advantage. Thats all.

I have no idea how to fix this, I'm hoping high sec ganking continues. It keeps Ice prices high :-).

Mine in a group, or with an alt. Cross-web each other using at least two webs, and set your speed manually to about 65-70% of maximum. Mine fully aligned and moving. If you position yourself properly you have like 10-20 minutes before you need to change alignment. Two webs on a Hulk piloted by someone with Navigation at 4 results in a max speed of 16 m/s, making it take longer than a minute to travel a kilometer using this tactic.

I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:

https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted
ITTigerClawIK
Galactic Rangers
#125 - 2012-03-30 23:41:37 UTC
isnt forcing people to stay and wait to get concorded after commiting a crime in EVE somewhat against the spirit of the sandbox that is EVE... i mean if you ask me if you get away with a crime in EVE i say fair play to them, i hope CCP will review this silly rule at some time in the future and remove it.
Vimsy Vortis
Shoulda Checked Local
Break-A-Wish Foundation
#126 - 2012-03-30 23:46:13 UTC
Tarsus Zateki wrote:
We do you continue to bother with Concord shenanigans at this point? The moment someone gets a GCC, just blow their ship up. No space lasers from nowhere, no spawning a bunch of lag inducing NPCs to blap you. Just boom, gone.

Because CCP want to try and maintain the facade you that you are playing in a sandbox despite consistently making it more and more difficult to destroy ships in high security space.

It's going to reach a point where destroying a ship in highsec will be considered an exploit if the victim didn't click an "okay" button.
Kessiaan
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#127 - 2012-03-31 00:27:05 UTC
Erlang- Shen wrote:
Tarsus Zateki wrote:
Erlang- Shen wrote:

As a miner you can not defend against a gank, the ships are not setup for that. The high alpha strike of short range will usually nullify any repper/booster you have on it. You cannot pre-emp the strike with an ECM module (burst) as you are aggressing and will get concorded.


Fitting a few nanofibers in your lows and warping out while a Maelstrom/Tornado/Thorax/Catalyst/Etc... is warping in is a pretty good defense against suicide ganks.

But that would require you to not be tabbed out of the game.


Even with all skills at level 5, and maxed nano in the lows. It would still be around 9 seconds to warp out.

If the ganker has had a scout. More likely cloaked. Taken into consideration warp in time, there would still be 3/4 second for target and scram. More than enough time.

I'm not against high sec ganking. I think it should be a realistic profession. But the mechanic of high sec also means that you have to wait to be shot before you a re-act back. The advantage should always be with the aggressor at that point.

This exploit just adds to that advantage. Thats all.

I have no idea how to fix this, I'm hoping high sec ganking continues. It keeps Ice prices high :-).


If you're watching your d-scanner you'll have enough time to warp out. If you're off-grid in a mission or something and watching your d-scanner you'll see the probes and have way more than enough time to warp out.

But if you could actually do that you'd be mining abc in wh space and making more money.

KB Link
Corina Jarr
en Welle Shipping Inc.
#128 - 2012-03-31 00:34:34 UTC
Erlang- Shen wrote:
Tarsus Zateki wrote:
Erlang- Shen wrote:

As a miner you can not defend against a gank, the ships are not setup for that. The high alpha strike of short range will usually nullify any repper/booster you have on it. You cannot pre-emp the strike with an ECM module (burst) as you are aggressing and will get concorded.


Fitting a few nanofibers in your lows and warping out while a Maelstrom/Tornado/Thorax/Catalyst/Etc... is warping in is a pretty good defense against suicide ganks.

But that would require you to not be tabbed out of the game.


Even with all skills at level 5, and maxed nano in the lows. It would still be around 9 seconds to warp out.

If the ganker has had a scout. More likely cloaked. Taken into consideration warp in time, there would still be 3/4 second for target and scram. More than enough time.

I'm not against high sec ganking. I think it should be a realistic profession. But the mechanic of high sec also means that you have to wait to be shot before you a re-act back. The advantage should always be with the aggressor at that point.

This exploit just adds to that advantage. Thats all.

I have no idea how to fix this, I'm hoping high sec ganking continues. It keeps Ice prices high :-).

Did you know that every ship in the game can instawarp.

Keeping aligned almost guarantees that you will not be ganked. Unless the ganker goes to extra work (rare, they are almost as lazy as miners) to watch you and determine your turn points, or bump you in an industrial, you can warp before they finish warping onto grid.

As I've said many times, don't be easy prey. Make them work for their fun and they will usually move on.
Nedes Betternaem
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#129 - 2012-03-31 00:38:54 UTC
Vimsy Vortis wrote:
Tarsus Zateki wrote:
We do you continue to bother with Concord shenanigans at this point? The moment someone gets a GCC, just blow their ship up. No space lasers from nowhere, no spawning a bunch of lag inducing NPCs to blap you. Just boom, gone.

Because CCP want to try and maintain the facade you that you are playing in a sandbox despite consistently making it more and more difficult to destroy ships in high security space.

It's going to reach a point where destroying a ship in highsec will be considered an exploit if the victim didn't click an "okay" button.

CCP has decided that its supposed to be hard to destroy ships in high sec and that it is exploiting to avoid systems that are in place to make it hard and no amount of tasty tasty carebear pvper tears is going to change that. If you do not like that you can always quit. Just be sure to contract all your stuff to this alt.
Beekeeper Bob
Beekeepers Anonymous
#130 - 2012-03-31 01:03:35 UTC
Zagdul wrote:

So, you've taken away our ability to run from the police in a sandbox.

Well done CCP.



Bee pet tears almost as good as the real thing.....Film at 11. Cool

Signature removed - CCP Eterne
Richard Desturned
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#131 - 2012-03-31 01:04:46 UTC
Nedes Betternaem wrote:
Vimsy Vortis wrote:
Tarsus Zateki wrote:
We do you continue to bother with Concord shenanigans at this point? The moment someone gets a GCC, just blow their ship up. No space lasers from nowhere, no spawning a bunch of lag inducing NPCs to blap you. Just boom, gone.

Because CCP want to try and maintain the facade you that you are playing in a sandbox despite consistently making it more and more difficult to destroy ships in high security space.

It's going to reach a point where destroying a ship in highsec will be considered an exploit if the victim didn't click an "okay" button.

CCP has decided that its supposed to be hard to destroy ships in high sec and that it is exploiting to avoid systems that are in place to make it hard and no amount of tasty tasty carebear pvper tears is going to change that. If you do not like that you can always quit. Just be sure to contract all your stuff to this alt.


carebears crying about suicide gankers calling the same gankers carebears is nothing but sweet, sweet irony

npc alts have no opinions worth consideration
Alexa Coates
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#132 - 2012-03-31 01:06:36 UTC
What the **** i thought the point of different high secs is the fact that at .5 you CAN outrun concord. :\

That's a Templar, an Amarr fighter used by carriers.
Sentinel Smith
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#133 - 2012-03-31 01:35:09 UTC
Alexa Coates wrote:
What the **** i thought the point of different high secs is the fact that at .5 you CAN outrun concord. :\

No, the point is more time.. you get to fire more vollies.. meaning a weaker attacking ship can take out the same target that would need a strong one in higher security space.
Nedes Betternaem
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#134 - 2012-03-31 02:53:33 UTC
Richard Desturned wrote:
Nedes Betternaem wrote:
Vimsy Vortis wrote:
Tarsus Zateki wrote:
We do you continue to bother with Concord shenanigans at this point? The moment someone gets a GCC, just blow their ship up. No space lasers from nowhere, no spawning a bunch of lag inducing NPCs to blap you. Just boom, gone.

Because CCP want to try and maintain the facade you that you are playing in a sandbox despite consistently making it more and more difficult to destroy ships in high security space.

It's going to reach a point where destroying a ship in highsec will be considered an exploit if the victim didn't click an "okay" button.

CCP has decided that its supposed to be hard to destroy ships in high sec and that it is exploiting to avoid systems that are in place to make it hard and no amount of tasty tasty carebear pvper tears is going to change that. If you do not like that you can always quit. Just be sure to contract all your stuff to this alt.


carebears crying about suicide gankers calling the same gankers carebears is nothing but sweet, sweet irony

Hrm? Since when did I become a carebear? Maybe instead of a carebear that I in fact want some challenge when suicide ganking? Maybe I don't want my tornado to basically be untouchable? Maybe I don't like the feel that I am basically cheating. I don't use the exploit, but neither should the risk adverse pvpers be able to use it because they have to make up for their terribad skills.

(Waiting for mr. goonie over here to ask me to link my killboard so Mittani can tell me to kill myself at the next fanfest)
Richard Desturned
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#135 - 2012-03-31 03:41:09 UTC
Nedes Betternaem wrote:

Hrm? Since when did I become a carebear? Maybe instead of a carebear that I in fact want some challenge when suicide ganking? Maybe I don't want my tornado to basically be untouchable? Maybe I don't like the feel that I am basically cheating. I don't use the exploit, but neither should the risk adverse pvpers be able to use it because they have to make up for their terribad skills.

(Waiting for mr. goonie over here to ask me to link my killboard so Mittani can tell me to kill myself at the next fanfest)



players have the means to provide a challenge, fyi

npc alts have no opinions worth consideration
Mr Kidd
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#136 - 2012-03-31 04:19:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Mr Kidd
Jesus Christ, you're not serious CCP? You've banned one of the most exciting activities in Eve and RL.....the car chase?!? *face palm*

"Cut to the chas...."*BAN*

Don't ban me, bro!
Misanth
RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE
#137 - 2012-03-31 06:54:22 UTC
+rep to CCP Homonoia for the dialogue/clarifications in this thread
Talking with players = wouldn't be bad to see that happen more often.

AFK-cloaking in a system near you.
Vikarion
Doomheim
#138 - 2012-03-31 07:35:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Vikarion
Vimsy Vortis wrote:
Tarsus Zateki wrote:
We do you continue to bother with Concord shenanigans at this point? The moment someone gets a GCC, just blow their ship up. No space lasers from nowhere, no spawning a bunch of lag inducing NPCs to blap you. Just boom, gone.

Because CCP want to try and maintain the facade you that you are playing in a sandbox despite consistently making it more and more difficult to destroy ships in high security space.

It's going to reach a point where destroying a ship in highsec will be considered an exploit if the victim didn't click an "okay" button.


It has never been ok to evade CONCORD. While CCP may be making high sec easier or tougher, that has nothing to do with this, which is a policy that has existed from the beginning: you gank a target in high sec, you lose your ship. You evade CONCORD, you get banned.

Now, if your concern is the gankage of multiple targets, I highly recommend two alts with large EM or Exp smartbombs in an ice field. A good decoy is to have your own industrial ship already there and max-tanked against the damage type you do (although I haven't tried this yet, make sure it can survive). Fleet it once it's in position for the blast, and then fleet warp in. Then just blast away, grab the loot with the indie, and repeat as needed.
Herr Wilkus
Aggressive Salvage Services LLC
#139 - 2012-03-31 08:01:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Herr Wilkus
Some people just fail at reading comprehension.
What does Concord spawn clearing have to do with this?

Yes, there was a rule change here, not a 'clarification'. We've watched them do it twice in a single thread! (warping on-grid vs off-grid)

So, where we stand:

Case 1. Warping away from a gank.
- This is not an exploit now, and it never was.

Case 2. Warping repeatedly (with a very agile ship) for 15 minutes until the GCC expires.
- This has always been an exploit, because your ship doesn't die, and I don't know why people are talking about it.

Case 3. Warping away from a gank, and shooting again, then getting caught and exploded.
-This previously was NOT an exploit, but now it is. (because CCP was washed away in Carebear tears, esp. once freighters started going down)

Goonswarm has posted videos of doing exactly this, years ago - using about 15 destroyers. Can't find the link, but its was posted on one of the numerous recent threads about suicide ganking, in C&P during the last couple months.

Granted, it was not especially common, but it was possible and did happen. It was public knowledge and nobody was banned....because it wasn't considered an exploit because the Tornado did not yet exist.

Anyway, 'warping away' is still possible and legal, so its a valid tactic for avoiding 'white knight' interference.
And that facilitates one of my other 'cost-saving' measures - the Rapid-Orca GCC unfit.

GMs are aware of it and have decided that this is a legal use of the Orca.
I've posted a primer in this thread. Make use of it and gank with a full blown T2/Faction setup -as cheaply as possible.
IsTheOpOver
#140 - 2012-03-31 08:01:56 UTC
I've been wanting to try some of this elite-pvp ganking myself after years and years of mundane carebear activities (level 4's, mining), etc.

When I saw Smodab Ongalot's awesome and innovative technique.. I couldn't wait to try. I started training some catalyst and orca pilots to get the job done.

Then that technique got stealth-nerfed .. damn.

No worries I thought, the Tornado is where it's at now! I see Buck/Herr tearing it up in Gallente space. I start training towards Tornados.

How does he get so many volleys off in High-sec everyone asks? After leaking the occasional hint from time to time he finally explains his innovations completely and it gets abused by many players and gets the axe. Argh.. training time unfair to some!

Oh well I guess I'll stick to mining. Soul-sucking activities that are multibox friendly don't seem to get nerfed too often it seems. Anyone want to use a scroll of ressurection? P

Peter40 wrote:
EVE is hard ähhh Shocked

better say

EVE will be soften

It's getting downright flacid.