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[RSS] Exploit notification: "Boomerang" - avoiding CONCORD in high security space

First post
Author
Lady Aja
#81 - 2012-03-30 19:16:24 UTC
Alpheias wrote:
TBH, Concord should be a player profession where the cop-players fly the concord ships and they get to chase us baddies.Pirate

WHOOP WHOOP! SPACE POLICE!



this would make suicide gankign far more risky under the new pvp mechanics planned..

tornado shoots hauler... everyone on gate opens up on the nado *POP*

his hauler alt warps to the wreck of the target and as soon as he loots becomes a "suspect" and everyone opens up on him.

win/win imo
where is my ability to link a sig properly CCP you munters!!
Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
Senpai's Afterschool Anime and Gaming Club
#82 - 2012-03-30 19:18:05 UTC
GM Homonoia wrote:
We could easily fix this by simply making it impossible to attack anyone in high sec ever, no exceptions. This is a situation no one wants.

No my dearest Watson, on the contrary, this is a situation that a great deal of many people want.

It would be highly appreciated if you did not lie directly to our faces in a manner befitting of voiding your bowels over your exasperated player base.

Why don't you instead tell us about those CONCORD "changes" that are coming up?

I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:

https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted

Memrox
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#83 - 2012-03-30 19:18:30 UTC
Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:
the entitlement of highsec bears to autopilot freighters with zero backup or thought for defense is the problem

a single alt in an assault frig (or a falcon) could save the bear's freighter from a tornado


So true, also what you said about carebears using Dec-Shields, I want that fixed to grind moar tears.
Alta Hibra
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#84 - 2012-03-30 19:20:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Alta Hibra
Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:
Alta Hibra wrote:
Stop whining. When a single tornado with a bumping alt can kill a freighter in high sec something is obviously broken.
the entitlement of highsec bears to autopilot freighters with zero backup or thought for defense is the problem

a single alt in an assault frig (or a falcon) could save the bear's freighter from a tornado



Autpilot is irrelevant, piloted freighters are still vulnerable when aligning.

Highsec bears? Pff. I'm a market pvper. I have more isk at risk at any given moment than the vast majority of pilots.

Yeah a falcon alt could do it, but I'd much rather fly around solo in a cloaking crane and avoid the freighter entirely if this wasn't now an exploit.

The problem is your entitlement to ganking high value targets in high sec for a trivial cost.
Zoloft Rx
Forged Prophets
#85 - 2012-03-30 19:24:52 UTC
GM Homonoia wrote:

2. OR you can set up the rules so strictly and in such a limiting manner that emergent behavior and any form of innovation becomes completely impossible. We could easily fix this by simply making it impossible to attack anyone in high sec ever, no exceptions.This is a situation no one wants.



Instead of making up crazy rules and constantly enforcing them, just fix the game mechanic.

EX. Once you get GCC for the illegal crime, you cant warp.. Seems like a simple fix to me.

For the role player: system-wide CONCORD warp jammer or something.
Zavulon Sukkot
Suddenly Ninjas
Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service
#86 - 2012-03-30 19:27:35 UTC
I'm still having some trouble understanding why it's even considered an exploit... You still lose your ship, unavoidably so, even. I'm sure somebody at CCP was also aware of the intersection between ship agility and CONCORD arrival time....

Or I would be if all signs didn't point to all the brains there aiming for a forced pve grindfest.
Degren
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#87 - 2012-03-30 19:28:20 UTC
Well that's a damn shame. Clever use of game mechanics cut down to exploit status.

Hello, hello again.

Destination SkillQueue
Doomheim
#88 - 2012-03-30 19:29:50 UTC
Zoloft Rx wrote:
GM Homonoia wrote:

2. OR you can set up the rules so strictly and in such a limiting manner that emergent behavior and any form of innovation becomes completely impossible. We could easily fix this by simply making it impossible to attack anyone in high sec ever, no exceptions.This is a situation no one wants.



Instead of making up crazy rules and constantly enforcing them, just fix the game mechanic.

EX. Once you get GCC for the illegal crime, you cant warp.. Seems like a simple fix to me.

For the role player: system-wide CONCORD warp jammer or something.


But it would also limit legitimate gameplay far more than is necessary to address the issue. Very blunt tool to fix one small loophole. A bad fix.
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#89 - 2012-03-30 19:32:00 UTC
Zavulon Sukkot wrote:
I'm still having some trouble understanding why it's even considered an exploit... You still lose your ship, unavoidably so, even. I'm sure somebody at CCP was also aware of the intersection between ship agility and CONCORD arrival time....

Or I would be if all signs didn't point to all the brains there aiming for a forced pve grindfest.


A player in another thread demonstrated he could suicide gank and evade CONCORD long enough for the aggression to expire.
Zoloft Rx
Forged Prophets
#90 - 2012-03-30 19:33:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Zoloft Rx
Destination SkillQueue wrote:
Zoloft Rx wrote:
GM Homonoia wrote:

2. OR you can set up the rules so strictly and in such a limiting manner that emergent behavior and any form of innovation becomes completely impossible. We could easily fix this by simply making it impossible to attack anyone in high sec ever, no exceptions.This is a situation no one wants.



Instead of making up crazy rules and constantly enforcing them, just fix the game mechanic.

EX. Once you get GCC for the illegal crime, you cant warp.. Seems like a simple fix to me.

For the role player: system-wide CONCORD warp jammer or something.


But it would also limit legitimate gameplay far more than is necessary to address the issue. Very blunt tool to fix one small loophole. A bad fix.


can you give an example of legitimate gamplay and "gcc from an illegal act"?

EDIT: oh youre talking about hiding your salvage in a safespot,.. cheap.

EDIT: in fact, my fix addresses 3 issues.
1.) The warp away exploit.
2.) More risk when ganking. When you suicide gank, other people have the chance to loot you. (no more hiding your wreck from others looters)
3.) CCP can use their GMs to do more meaningful things.
Destination SkillQueue
Doomheim
#91 - 2012-03-30 19:38:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Destination SkillQueue
Zavulon Sukkot wrote:
I'm still having some trouble understanding why it's even considered an exploit... You still lose your ship, unavoidably so, even. I'm sure somebody at CCP was also aware of the intersection between ship agility and CONCORD arrival time....

Or I would be if all signs didn't point to all the brains there aiming for a forced pve grindfest.


The function of the mechanic isn't just to cause the aggressor to lose their ship. That is just one part of the mechanic. An important one, but not the only one. It's also a limiting and balancing mechanic to manage highsec aggression. What the trick does is still pay the ship loss, but circumvent the limiting and balancing aspect of the mechanic. Basicly it radically reduces the costs of suicide ganking high value targets to the point, that using freighters to haul a lot of cargo becomes idiotic. You can see the issue, that the vessel specifically designed to carry large amounts of cargo becomes vulnerable if it has a couple hundred million worth of cargo to a few pilots with a single battlecruiser. The trick is clever, but rediculously overpowered and very damaging to highsec hauling if it would have been allowed to continue.

Zoloft Rx wrote:
can you give an example of legitimate gamplay and "gcc from an illegal act"?

EDIT: oh youre talking about hiding your salvage in a safespot,.. cheap.


Not specifically, but things like saving your pod and drop are good reasons to use as an example. More generally the sandbox game design favors solutions where you fix the issue with minimal effect on other gameplay. This is why you want to address the loophole only, if at all possible and why I dislike people abusing such loopholes, since fixing them doesn't always allow for precise fixes, that don't negatively affect legitimate gameplay.
Arkady Vachon
The Gold Angels
Sixth Empire
#92 - 2012-03-30 19:51:02 UTC
just curious, what happens if you self-destruct before concord gets there?

Nothing Personal - Just Business...

Chaos Creates Content

Nirnaeth Ornoediad
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#93 - 2012-03-30 19:54:12 UTC
Does this new ruling affect missiles, which can destroy a target even after CONCORD arrives, the shooter warps off, or even after the shooter is destroyed?

Fix POSes.  Every player should want one (even if all players can't have one).

Elsebeth Rhiannon
Gradient
Electus Matari
#94 - 2012-03-30 19:57:06 UTC
Alpheias wrote:
TBH, Concord should be a player profession where the cop-players fly the concord ships and they get to chase us baddies.Pirate

WHOOP WHOOP! SPACE POLICE!

FYI, we already get to chase you baddies.

Too bad we don't get CONCORD ships for it though. :(

Metal Flake
Dark Corona Shipyard
#95 - 2012-03-30 19:59:01 UTC
Nirnaeth Ornoediad wrote:
Does this new ruling affect missiles, which can destroy a target even after CONCORD arrives, the shooter warps off, or even after the shooter is destroyed?



unless something got changed recently missles don't impaat after any warp command , they should impact after concord BBQ though
Zoloft Rx
Forged Prophets
#96 - 2012-03-30 19:59:24 UTC
Destination SkillQueue wrote:

Zoloft Rx wrote:
can you give an example of legitimate gamplay and "gcc from an illegal act"?

EDIT: oh youre talking about hiding your salvage in a safespot,.. cheap.


Not specifically, but things like saving your pod and drop are good reasons to use as an example.


This system warp jammer i was speaking of wouldn't affect pod.

Also, suicide ganker should forfeit their exclusive rights to their loot. Get a friend or alt compete with other people on grid to get your loot. Why do gankers get to have their cake and eat it too?
Vertisce Soritenshi
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#97 - 2012-03-30 20:00:31 UTC
I am not sure I understand this right...

Attack someone. Get a GCC. Manage to warp away escaping CONCORD. Considered an exploit?

If this is true...how does it make any kind of logical sense at all that escaping the police is an exploit?

Bounties for all! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2279821#post2279821

Nedes Betternaem
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#98 - 2012-03-30 20:12:28 UTC
Vertisce Soritenshi wrote:
I am not sure I understand this right...

Attack someone. Get a GCC. Manage to warp away escaping CONCORD. Considered an exploit?

If this is true...how does it make any kind of logical sense at all that escaping the police is an exploit?

How does it make any logical sense at all that you can kill thousands of people (lore wise) and billions of ISK per ship, and be completely forgiven of your mass genocide simply because you blew up some pirates in null sec?

Same logic that makes it an exploit to avoid the police... to make the game more fun (some people actually like risk and challenge you friggin carebear pvper). If CONCORD was easily avoided then no one in their right mind would ever fly anything that carried more than a few mil worth of cargo... and the only real profession in EvE would be piracy and there would be no new players because every time they bought a new ship, it would be blown up.
Commander Spurty
#99 - 2012-03-30 20:13:18 UTC
Fascinating.

Game update consumed and assimilated.

Nice buff or low sec

There are good ships,

And wood ships,

And ships that sail the sea

But the best ships are Spaceships

Built by CCP

Xiaodown
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#100 - 2012-03-30 20:14:11 UTC
Is it against the spirit of the game to snipe page 6?