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CSM: Make the process to replace canditates more democratical

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Vile rat
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#21 - 2012-04-05 12:29:27 UTC
Dustie Pyryt wrote:
I think CCP should ban all Goon players since they have publicly declared that they want to destroy our game. Why does CCP put up with the crap. It seems easy enough to track down and ban all players with Goon in there alliance/corp associations...


No you misunderstand Dustie. We don't want to destroy everybody's game, just your game. Dustie Pyryt. You are the only one we have any interest in messing with.

Welsige
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#22 - 2012-04-07 01:22:35 UTC
Delilah Wild wrote:
I must admit that I chuckled reading Welsige bemoaning the absence of a fair and civil discussion. How ironic....

In any case, The Mittani's lead in votes and former position of chair was hardly in the best interests or tradition of democracy.

The CSM uses at-large voting, one of the more regressive forms of representation. Electing at-large representatives magnifies the power of minority bloc voting (read Goons). While meeting a low bar of democracy (voting), it fails more rigourous tests of fairness and substantive representation. It is for this reason that real world voting is geographically bounded by districts or ridings.

If Welsige is really concerned about improving the CSM, he should turn his attention to replacing at-large voting with a more representative system.

Cheers



I see the merit of your thinking, but you will agree this is a diferent topic enirelly.

One leads to the replacement of a ellected representative, other deals with the chosing of the representative.

Wich, btw, considering allt he incarnations the same person can have, might become tricky to separate people in "districts". What criteria would be used ? I totally think its worth its own thread.

[b]~ 10.058 ~

Free The Mittani[/b]
Welsige
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#23 - 2012-04-07 01:25:16 UTC
FloppieTheBanjoClown wrote:
I'm confused. Did the leap year throw you off? You missed April 1 by a wide margin.

Let's face it: the Goons would oppose any idea resembling this had their glorious leader not been the one to fall on his face. Do yourselves a favor and quit giving everyone so much to gloat about. Shut up, have your little Burn Jita party, and carry on.

Adapt or die, Goons.


u mad?

Seriously, your post makes no sense. Raging much?

[b]~ 10.058 ~

Free The Mittani[/b]
Welsige
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#24 - 2012-04-07 01:28:26 UTC
Samillian wrote:
Dustie Pyryt wrote:
I think CCP should ban all Goon players since they have publicly declared that they want to destroy our game. Why does CCP put up with the crap. It seems easy enough to track down and ban all players with Goon in there alliance/corp associations...


This kind of attitude leads to bad, bad things. Goons have always said they want to ruin "your" game not "the" game and they have held true to that the entire time I've been playing, just because you don't like it is no reason to call for a cull of the playerbase.

Edit: By the way I'm fairly sure there is no such word as "democratical".


Democratical

There, dont say you never learned anything from me. ;)

[b]~ 10.058 ~

Free The Mittani[/b]
GondriA
A Totally Anal Conceited Organization
#25 - 2012-04-07 02:49:50 UTC
Welsige wrote:
Samillian wrote:
Dustie Pyryt wrote:
I think CCP should ban all Goon players since they have publicly declared that they want to destroy our game. Why does CCP put up with the crap. It seems easy enough to track down and ban all players with Goon in there alliance/corp associations...


This kind of attitude leads to bad, bad things. Goons have always said they want to ruin "your" game not "the" game and they have held true to that the entire time I've been playing, just because you don't like it is no reason to call for a cull of the playerbase.

Edit: By the way I'm fairly sure there is no such word as "democratical".


Democratical

There, dont say you never learned anything from me. ;)


Democracy things on a game that CCP let us have the csm....
the bottom line is that the game is ccp's and they make the rules ....
MatrixSkye Mk2
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#26 - 2012-04-08 00:07:24 UTC  |  Edited by: MatrixSkye Mk2
Welsige wrote:
It isnt democratic at all. Might be simpler and >> no effort << to CCP. But isnt democratic as it dosent try to maintain the representability of the interests of the voters.

But it is democratic. You voted this clown into office precisely because of what he is and what he does. And true to himself and you he did not dissapoint. His interests are your interests. His decisions represent YOUR decisions. Live with the choices and consequences that you and your candidate made.

FFS, you're all part of the same alliance. Choose a better (less destructive) candidate next time...

Or choose another clown and watch him clown himself out of office again. Your choice, because that's how democracy works.

Successfully doinitwrong™ since 2006.
Meissa Anunthiel
Redshift Industrial
Rooks and Kings
#27 - 2012-04-08 21:23:29 UTC
People who voted for mittens will be represented, just not by him, in the same spirit as the 30K+ votes that went to people who didn't make it top 14 will be represented too, just not by the person they voted for.

Member of CSM 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 and 7
Vertisce Soritenshi
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#28 - 2012-04-09 18:48:56 UTC
This wouldn't even be an issue if the CSM took the proper position of representing the entire playerbase of EvE and not just their "constituents". The entire constituent point of view proves that the CSM is being used as nothing more than a meta-gaming tool for one large alliance in Nullsec. If you make it onto the CSM, you should be taking ideas and points of view from everybody and considering what is best for EvE and CCP as a whole and not just what would benefit your alliance the most.

Bounties for all! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2279821#post2279821
FloppieTheBanjoClown
Arcana Imperii Ltd.
#29 - 2012-04-09 19:11:19 UTC
Welsige wrote:
FloppieTheBanjoClown wrote:
I'm confused. Did the leap year throw you off? You missed April 1 by a wide margin.

Let's face it: the Goons would oppose any idea resembling this had their glorious leader not been the one to fall on his face. Do yourselves a favor and quit giving everyone so much to gloat about. Shut up, have your little Burn Jita party, and carry on.

Adapt or die, Goons.

u mad?

Seriously, your post makes no sense. Raging much?

These forums need a :wtf: smiley. Or not. It would probably be the only content in half the posts. Anyway... :wtf:

Mad? Why would I be mad? Other than field far too many badposters in these forums, the goons have never done anything to anger me. I rather like some of you...which is why I suggested you guys shut up and quit pulling this very public hissy fit. It eats away at your credibility. Now instead of fearing you, the pubbies are laughing at you. I've got no reason to be mad. How about you?

Oh, and don't let us down on 4/28. I'm looking forward to shooting all the GCC ships.

Founding member of the Belligerent Undesirables movement.
Drake Draconis
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#30 - 2012-04-09 19:31:02 UTC
FloppieTheBanjoClown wrote:
Welsige wrote:
FloppieTheBanjoClown wrote:
I'm confused. Did the leap year throw you off? You missed April 1 by a wide margin.

Let's face it: the Goons would oppose any idea resembling this had their glorious leader not been the one to fall on his face. Do yourselves a favor and quit giving everyone so much to gloat about. Shut up, have your little Burn Jita party, and carry on.

Adapt or die, Goons.

u mad?

Seriously, your post makes no sense. Raging much?

These forums need a :wtf: smiley. Or not. It would probably be the only content in half the posts. Anyway... :wtf:

Mad? Why would I be mad? Other than field far too many badposters in these forums, the goons have never done anything to anger me. I rather like some of you...which is why I suggested you guys shut up and quit pulling this very public hissy fit. It eats away at your credibility. Now instead of fearing you, the pubbies are laughing at you. I've got no reason to be mad. How about you?

Oh, and don't let us down on 4/28. I'm looking forward to shooting all the GCC ships.


Sorry Welsige....your gonna have to eat your foot now...you just got owned.

================ STOP THE EVEMAIL SPAM! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=78152
Meissa Anunthiel
Redshift Industrial
Rooks and Kings
#31 - 2012-04-10 04:07:00 UTC
Vertisce Soritenshi wrote:
This wouldn't even be an issue if the CSM took the proper position of representing the entire playerbase of EvE and not just their "constituents". The entire constituent point of view proves that the CSM is being used as nothing more than a meta-gaming tool for one large alliance in Nullsec. If you make it onto the CSM, you should be taking ideas and points of view from everybody and considering what is best for EvE and CCP as a whole and not just what would benefit your alliance the most.


Don't worry, this is largely the case.
The CSM doesn't dictate what CCP does or doesn't do, we explain why players would react the way they would to things that are proposed, and while specific groups have specific needs, there's people around to push for just about everyone.

Member of CSM 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 and 7
Welsige
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#32 - 2012-04-10 14:50:44 UTC
Drake Draconis wrote:
FloppieTheBanjoClown wrote:
Welsige wrote:
FloppieTheBanjoClown wrote:
I'm confused. Did the leap year throw you off? You missed April 1 by a wide margin.

Let's face it: the Goons would oppose any idea resembling this had their glorious leader not been the one to fall on his face. Do yourselves a favor and quit giving everyone so much to gloat about. Shut up, have your little Burn Jita party, and carry on.

Adapt or die, Goons.

u mad?

Seriously, your post makes no sense. Raging much?

These forums need a :wtf: smiley. Or not. It would probably be the only content in half the posts. Anyway... :wtf:

Mad? Why would I be mad? Other than field far too many badposters in these forums, the goons have never done anything to anger me. I rather like some of you...which is why I suggested you guys shut up and quit pulling this very public hissy fit. It eats away at your credibility. Now instead of fearing you, the pubbies are laughing at you. I've got no reason to be mad. How about you?

Oh, and don't let us down on 4/28. I'm looking forward to shooting all the GCC ships.


Sorry Welsige....your gonna have to eat your foot now...you just got owned.


Exactly how?

I am here trying to discuss an alternative method about replacing candidates for whatever reasons they end not being able to assume the charge, being it a punishment, getting ill, RL issues, or any other reason.

I am not the one bringing up the especific issue that happened at fanfest. While i try to look at the bigger picture, some people come and focus on its personal vendettas and rage - wich just serves to prove my point - that players are not being represented.

While I certainly hope that all interests will be represented, one must realize candidates will most often than not push for changes that benefit their voter's base, thats just how reallife works, and thus the CSM. Sure, they dont hold any real power, but their input can sway CCP to one side or the other.

[b]~ 10.058 ~

Free The Mittani[/b]
Shandir
EVE University
Ivy League
#33 - 2012-04-10 18:56:53 UTC
Given what you want is to be able to apply your 10,000 votes to another candidate under The Mittani's control, it would invalidate removing The Mittani from the CSM entirely.
When you consider that goons are already cheering about how banning Mittani from the game has no effect on his ability to run Goonswarm, perhaps it would be silly to put him/you in a position to make the same boasts about the CSM and it's chairmanship?

You guys are your own worst enemies.
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