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Ship mass =/= bumping ability
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Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
#21 - 2012-03-30 19:01:26 UTC
If you try to bump a Titan with your Thorax, the Thorax explodes.

That is all.

Mr Epeen Cool
Nedes Betternaem
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#22 - 2012-03-30 19:09:26 UTC
Petrus Blackshell wrote:
While it would be nice to have more physics realism in Eve, there are some sacrifices made for having working game mechanics. That's why bumping isn't crashing (and taking damage). Bumping also works the way it is because it is currently the only really reliable way to counter station docking games (ram them off of the station) or gate games. Until the "unrealism" of a ship being able to suddenly dock into a station as it has tens of guns shooting it gets replaced by a realistic mechanic, bumping shouldn't be made more realistic.

I say this as a lowsec resident who deals with bumping as a tactic very often. It's annoying and not how things should work, but without it a lot of stuff would be broken.

Its pretty broken as is IMO. Honestly the station games thing would be pretty easily fixed. If something on grid has used an aggressive module against you in the last 5 mins, you cannot dock. You can however warp off grid and the timer will be removed.

Other than that, I honestly do not think bumping should be so easy or so risk free as it is now. Preferably it should take large ships to bump other large ships. But maybe introducing an amount of damage to the smaller ship would be interesting. (As now using capital ships as giant battering rams would be a valid tactic.)
Palovana
Inner Fire Inc.
#23 - 2012-03-30 19:21:38 UTC
Factor Fett wrote:
Raiz Nhell wrote:
Maybe our ships have avoidance mechanisms...
Thats why we gain velocity, but take no damage at all...
The ship itself has self preservation mechanisms to avoid impact...
Not that far fetched really

Yes, in EVE, the anti-collision systems on the ships make the BUMP effect.

I think more of it as being caused by the warp field generators reaching too close a proximity and repelling each other like magnets.

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Reaver Glitterstim
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#24 - 2012-03-30 19:25:34 UTC
Nedes Betternaem wrote:
If something on grid has used an aggressive module against you in the last 5 mins, you cannot dock. You can however warp off grid and the timer will be removed.
I think the timer should really be based on ship size, since it's carriers that take a long time to destroy. 5 minutes is too long for other ships. That's enough time for the station to clear out and then for a completely new group of hostiles to stumble upon you and pop you because you couldn't dock. Also, warping shouldn't clear the timer. Besides, people don't always want to warp anywhere when there are hostiles in system. Sure, you could warp to a friendly POS, but then you might get stuck there for a while. Some people would rather be stuck in the hangar.

Nedes Betternaem wrote:
But maybe introducing an amount of damage to the smaller ship would be interesting. (As now using capital ships as giant battering rams would be a valid tactic.)
Sounds shady, but I can't say I'd feel for the guy who lost a frigate because he couldn't move out of the way of a titan.

FT Diomedes: "Reaver, sometimes I wonder what you are thinking when you sit down to post."

Frostys Virpio: "We have to give it to him that he does put more effort than the vast majority in his idea but damn does it sometime come out of nowhere."
Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings
#25 - 2012-03-30 19:26:16 UTC
Nedes Betternaem wrote:
Honestly the station games thing would be pretty easily fixed. If something on grid has used an aggressive module against you in the last 5 mins, you cannot dock.


Do you know how many kills (and losses) I'd have by now if that were the case?! Shocked Damn!

That would be fine, but only if you could see what was outside station without undocking -- which is not now, nor has ever been a thing.

Windows are structural weaknesses. Capsuleers don't use them.

Accidentally The Whole Frigate - For-newbies blog (currently on pause)
Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings
#26 - 2012-03-30 19:28:57 UTC
Reaver Glitterstim wrote:
Sounds shady, but I can't say I'd feel for the guy who lost a frigate because he couldn't move out of the way of a titan.


I once bumped a titan about 15 km into a massive battleship blob, scattering all the battleships and throwing the titan out of alignment.

... Using a Thrasher. I warped directly into the titan, and got launched 100 km away myself.

It was hilarious, but I think it would have been equally hilarious if I splatted on the titan's hull and died spectacularly.

Accidentally The Whole Frigate - For-newbies blog (currently on pause)
Reaver Glitterstim
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#27 - 2012-03-30 19:38:39 UTC
Petrus Blackshell wrote:
Windows are structural weaknesses. Capsuleers don't use them.
Camera Drones aren't a structural weakness.

I don't think that perfect viewing outside the station should ever be doable--that job should be left up to teamwork efforts of corps and alliances. But it would be nice (and reasonable!) to have a scanner (I was gonna call it a radar!) or something with blips on it to show an approximate (though very crude) idea of what lies out there. In fact a somewhat useless but still realistic tweak to that would be to allow the scanner viewer to toggle between the four racial scanner types and each blip would show up brightest in its sensor type. I'm sure people would find hilarious uses for that too.

FT Diomedes: "Reaver, sometimes I wonder what you are thinking when you sit down to post."

Frostys Virpio: "We have to give it to him that he does put more effort than the vast majority in his idea but damn does it sometime come out of nowhere."
Nova Fox
Novafox Shipyards
#28 - 2012-03-30 19:38:46 UTC
This was done for a short while on the test server the QA managed to send a star based flying or was it a station?

I dont exactly remember but neither POS or Station should be clocking 45AU/s so the fix was removed until that could be resolved unfoutrunetly that will require a phsics engine rewrite which I serioulsy hope ccp considers for 2012 winter expansion.

Dust 514's CPM 1 Iron Wolf Saber Eve mail me about Dust 514 issues.
Nova Fox
Novafox Shipyards
#29 - 2012-03-30 19:39:58 UTC
Petrus Blackshell wrote:
Nedes Betternaem wrote:
Honestly the station games thing would be pretty easily fixed. If something on grid has used an aggressive module against you in the last 5 mins, you cannot dock.


Do you know how many kills (and losses) I'd have by now if that were the case?! Shocked Damn!

That would be fine, but only if you could see what was outside station without undocking -- which is not now, nor has ever been a thing.

Windows are structural weaknesses. Capsuleers don't use them.



Most of those windows are sensors panels with armor behind it. and somehwere inside correlating is a nice television screen for those who can afford it to look outisde and not get pandamonium.

Dust 514's CPM 1 Iron Wolf Saber Eve mail me about Dust 514 issues.
Nedes Betternaem
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#30 - 2012-03-30 19:49:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Nedes Betternaem
Reaver Glitterstim wrote:
I think the timer should really be based on ship size, since it's carriers that take a long time to destroy. 5 minutes is too long for other ships. That's enough time for the station to clear out and then for a completely new group of hostiles to stumble upon you and pop you because you couldn't dock. Also, warping shouldn't clear the timer. Besides, people don't always want to warp anywhere when there are hostiles in system. Sure, you could warp to a friendly POS, but then you might get stuck there for a while. Some people would rather be stuck in the hangar.
The timer only starts when someone attacks you... so just having hostiles in system is not going to prevent you from docking. Yea sure a bunch of frigates can now lock you down if you refuse to warp, but how is that any different from those same frigates bumping you 10 KM from the dock? You do have a good idea though, the timer should be based on ship size... so a capital ship should be maybe 1-3 mins and a frigate should only be 10 seconds or so. However every time someone attacks you the timer should still reset to the full duration for the ship.

Reaver Glitterstim wrote:
Nedes Betternaem wrote:
But maybe introducing an amount of damage to the smaller ship would be interesting. (As now using capital ships as giant battering rams would be a valid tactic.)
Sounds shady, but I can't say I'd feel for the guy who lost a frigate because he couldn't move out of the way of a titan.

Exactly, the more nimble your ship is the easier it should be to avoid it a capital ship. However I do kind of think that adding another weapon to the arsenal of the titan probably is not the best idea after further thought. Dreadnoughts in siege mode would be easy targets to ram. Also if you warp in to something you really have no control where you land... so maybe it would be better if bumping effectiveness would depend just on mass, and there should be no damage involved
Jayrendo Karr
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#31 - 2012-03-30 20:21:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Jayrendo Karr
There should be an anchor option that can be deployed quickly on the other hand to unanchor should take time like 10 minutes. Anchor now and arrive to a scrapheap of friendlies then get blown up by enemy caps? or dont anchor and have it stolen by someone who can only fly it with dread level 1
Farrisen
MoaR ChickeN
#32 - 2012-03-30 20:35:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Farrisen
WisdomLikeSilence wrote:
It would be great if when they bring in tesselation, if bumping took some of your cpu off, as it struggles to boost shields against impact.

The faster the impacter the more cpu is taken.


*scratches head* wait CPU, typo and you meant CAP?
oooor are you talking about increasing the CPU load and frying ppl CPU's? Lol

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Originally by: CCP Spitfire: It's because of falcon.
Herping yourDerp
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#33 - 2012-03-30 21:02:09 UTC
simple solution is if your mass is less then half ( removing MWD mass increase from the equation) you are he one that bounces off, the other person stays on course.
this means a frig cannot push a battleship, MWD or no
titans would only be bumped by other titans and maybe super carriers.
Reaver Glitterstim
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#34 - 2012-03-30 21:18:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Reaver Glitterstim
Herping yourDerp wrote:
simple solution is if your mass is less then half ( removing MWD mass increase from the equation) you are he one that bounces off, the other person stays on course.
this means a frig cannot push a battleship, MWD or no
titans would only be bumped by other titans and maybe super carriers.


I disagree. That would make it ridiculously difficult to bump ships around. With my calculation, a battlecruiser MWDing at 1000m/s could push a battleship about 200m/s. A small gang of drakes could push most ships around, but you'd need more for the big stuff. With your calculation, you would need a battleship just to bump a hulk out of mining range, and a fleet of smaller ships that were in total more massive than what they're bumping still couldn't budge it.

FT Diomedes: "Reaver, sometimes I wonder what you are thinking when you sit down to post."

Frostys Virpio: "We have to give it to him that he does put more effort than the vast majority in his idea but damn does it sometime come out of nowhere."
Reaver Glitterstim
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#35 - 2012-03-30 21:21:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Reaver Glitterstim
Jayrendo Carr wrote:
There should be an anchor option that can be deployed quickly on the other hand to unanchor should take time like 10 minutes. Anchor now and arrive to a scrapheap of friendlies then get blown up by enemy caps? or dont anchor and have it stolen by someone who can only fly it with dread level 1
Not sure what you're trying to say there.

FT Diomedes: "Reaver, sometimes I wonder what you are thinking when you sit down to post."

Frostys Virpio: "We have to give it to him that he does put more effort than the vast majority in his idea but damn does it sometime come out of nowhere."
Celestra Doxaila
MinTek Tactical Division
#36 - 2012-03-30 22:37:21 UTC
Zverofaust wrote:

... Titans would have probably even have their own gravitational pull affecting nearby objects.


That would be so freaking awesome. I don't know if it would affect the game any useful way, I just like the idea of wrecks and frigates and light stuff orbiting around a capital ship.
masternerdguy
Doomheim
#37 - 2012-03-30 22:48:37 UTC
Celestra Doxaila wrote:
Zverofaust wrote:

... Titans would have probably even have their own gravitational pull affecting nearby objects.


That would be so freaking awesome. I don't know if it would affect the game any useful way, I just like the idea of wrecks and frigates and light stuff orbiting around a capital ship.


It wouldn't be very impressive.

Assuming EVE's ship masses at 200km the gravitational force between a leviathan and rifter would be 4.36x10-11 newtons, which means the rifter would fall towards the titan at a whopping 4.05x10-12 meters per second.

Remember gravity is a really weak force.

Things are only impossible until they are not.
Vangelios
#38 - 2012-03-30 23:03:27 UTC
Reaver Glitterstim wrote:
In fact, if you want to get really realistic, the frigate bouncing off the battleship would keep some of the impact momentum inside the frigate. The battleship might be pushed 22.5m/s, while the frigate might be bounced off at 1500m/s.


Hey I love realistic stuff, and you know what... while battleship would be pushed a little, frigate would remain inside battleship scattered in peaces... just saying... ;)

... Each small candle Lights a corner of the dark...
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