These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

EVE Information Portal

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

New dev blog: Changes to War Mechanics

First post First post
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Captain Thunk
Explode. Now. Please.
Alliance. Now. Please.
#1001 - 2012-05-11 12:45:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Captain Thunk
Dream Five wrote:
I was simply genuinely concerned about emotional well being of people close to you.

If you genuinely thought that then you should know your comment would have lined my family up for another beating. Discarding the possibility that you're a sociopath who's praying that I am the domestic abuser you hope I am then this only leaves 2 possibilities.

1. You really are that naive.
2. You're lying in an attempt to cover up your earlier Argumentum Ad Hominem attack.

While I'm tempted to go with number 2. even if its only because such behaviour of being unable to contain your own rage is the basis for making the argument that you are infact a seasoned wife beater yourself, it's pretty ridiculous to state that you can tell someones psychological profile with any degree of accuracy from a handful of posts on a forum.

So I'm going to have to go with number 1. Your general pattern of posting of asking many questions, being unable to follow a topic that spans pages, displays of confusion and the outbursts of anger surrounding it seems to be a much better fit. Fortunately, I'm not an abuser so no-ones been inadvertently harmed by your accusations.

You should probably slow down a little and think before you post. If you have questions then check the newbie guides, there are lots of forums here and many 3rd party sites that can probably answer most of these for you. English is one of the harder languages to learn because of its many quirks and failure to adhere to its own supposed rules, so I don't want to be too hard on you for your failure to comprehend. There's a very good chance that there's an Eve forum in your own language which may be a better place for your posts.

Dream Five wrote:
But do they understand that the rest of the motivation for wardecs in hisec is poorly rationalized at fundamental level (forcing hisec players without POSes who do not want to fight into leaving player corps)?

With the current pricing strategy there's no danger of that happening.
Doublewhopper
Temporary Assignment
#1002 - 2012-05-11 21:19:10 UTC
This expansion will ruin the wardec system altogether.

I hope in 2-3 months time we will see statistics on how the wardecs went down to 1/5 of the average amount.

Then it will be interesting to discuss how this could have happened and how this was not supposed to happen on an expansion that was "focused" on warfare.

There are plenty of ways to avoid a wardec NOW. You can join/leave corporations, you can dock up, you can log off, you can go to wh-space, you can go to 0.0, you can fight, you can surrender, you can hire mercs and on and on. The only limit is your creativity.

Now all this is gone and enforced by a useless system that makes sure a war follows you and is expensive as hell if you want to have a little fun, while it grants the big guys immunity by making it unaffordable.

So i predict the expansion to further warfare will fail and kill most of empire warfare.

Should be obvious to anyone.
wolf clank
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#1003 - 2012-05-12 02:30:21 UTC  |  Edited by: wolf clank
Doublewhopper wrote:
This expansion will ruin the wardec system altogether.

I hope in 2-3 months time we will see statistics on how the wardecs went down to 1/5 of the average amount.

Then it will be interesting to discuss how this could have happened and how this was not supposed to happen on an expansion that was "focused" on warfare.

There are plenty of ways to avoid a wardec NOW. You can join/leave corporations, you can dock up, you can log off, you can go to wh-space, you can go to 0.0, you can fight, you can surrender, you can hire mercs and on and on. The only limit is your creativity.

Now all this is gone and enforced by a useless system that makes sure a war follows you and is expensive as hell if you want to have a little fun, while it grants the big guys immunity by making it unaffordable.

So i predict the expansion to further warfare will fail and kill most of empire warfare.

Should be obvious to anyone.


i like the rant but im pro reducing the griefer alt wardeccing so im going to completly disagree with the fact that reducing war decs to 1/5 the amount being a bad thing. however i am PRO grifer war deccing and killing. as for the large corporations being vertualy immune to deccing i made a suggestion to alliviate that a little bit by making them immune to smaller corps and turning them into larger corp pray.

oh ps. also there can be a nagative for allys killing allies (and this can also turn into corp members killing corp members) with a ships reimbersment fee ware they get 100% reimbursment possibly forcing a member into negative (or just 0.0 because i can see putting people into negative becoming a scam off the top of my head. and i can see it not, if done right) this could also be added to the contract (agian with a pre paid deposit like with the bounty system. and the bounty system could include or exclude poses).
wolf clank
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#1004 - 2012-05-12 02:48:02 UTC  |  Edited by: wolf clank
Joe Risalo wrote:
Vincent Athena wrote:
Captain Thunk wrote:
Dream Five wrote:

Actually a safe space where you can recover from losses is required in order for the game to function otherwise it will be possible to permagrief players into quitting and CCP is smarter than allowing that. EVE will then turn into a game of self-elimination.


Why are people in 0.0 alliances if they require a safe haven to recover from their losses?

Instead of facing the obvious, there is an uncomfortable expectation that the game needs to be changed to accomodate these people, who're quite literally doing it all wrong.

Dear CCP, I don't happen to have arms or legs. I'm typing this through tactical headbutting and a special attachment. Obviously you need to rewrite your entire game for me, if you can pop me an email when you're done it'd be much appreciated, TIA.


Secured areas of 0.0 are safer than high sec. For those in Null who do not have such areas, they have alts in NPC corps in high sec.

The reason eve should accommodate "these people" (Do I get a feeling of bigotry here?) is they are a major part, maybe a majority, of the players, and hence a huge part of CCP income.


/agreed

However, I would still like to state that CCP needs to stop focusing on making high sec more dangerous and start focusing on how to make those quite reasonably safe null zones more treacherous...
Like I've said, it's null sec.. There should be on going battles all the time for everyone. CCP needs to find a way to force the alliance to actually have to defend their territories instead of just setting up a border fence and calling it good.

I don't know how they'd do that, but i'm not a game designer so I shouldn't have to figure it out for them.

However, I kinda get the feeling that CCP is protecting and easying the null sec way of life because it's their way of life.

CCP needs to split up those of them that play Eve into 4 equal sized groups. 1 for high sec life, one for low, 1 for null, and 1 group for wh space. This way they could perhaps have equal representation by the different player bases of Eve and we can all get equal opportunity. Since the players of CCP seem to be more focused on the null sec way of life, then they tend to make their own lives better and seemingly punish those that don't share their way of life.
Hence the former wardec system in which alliances would have been overly protected through cost of war, while the average sized 20-50 man high sec corps become very lucrative targets.


CCP, stop messing up the war dec system just because inferno is about war. Wars exist in two other areas as well. Low sec and null sec. TBH, null needs the most tweaking in the war department cause there's not enough of it between the major alliances.

P.S. - why does the thread on POS's get a crap ton of CCP comments, some of which actually stating things besides we';re here and we're working on it while all the other threads including this one which was created by CCP go unattended by CCP and even if they do drop in, it's just to say they're dropping in.

Seriously, between this thread and this - https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&find=unread&t=104991 - we could really use a CCP comment that either gives info on your plans or at least sets CCP's view on them.

We understand that if you give us info it's subject to change at any time. All you have to do is put that disclaimer at the top.
At least seeing ya'lls ideas behind this would help y'all to get some feedback from the player base.

Kind of annoying that y'all always sit back and release the info to the live server without getting feed by on the suggested changes before they're implemented which leads to rage in game and on the forums because it's being exploited for the bad implementation it was.
Let us know what your current plans are and we'll discuss them. Sure, we're not going to agree, but that's Eve. However, if you give us the current plans then maybe you'll find a better balanced solution before it's implemented and leads to mass rage quits of high sec players.

ok so i agree with neither the first or the last... there should be resanably safe places for people to grow and "skill up" thier characters so as the entire time the players that have absolutly every combat skill trained and infinite replacement ships cant continously ****... um molest the lower level players who as stated make up the majority of money making as they cant afford to by plexs (with isk) so they pay ccp or by plexs to sell. this also includes paying the isk that higher skill players us to by thier precious plexs and continue to play and kill on eve. also care bears build the ships that fuel the eve blood lust so without them there are less ships less ships = less killing.

as for the last one i dissagree with the reasoning that ccp should stop making 0.0 better. as the point that ccp is trying to make by making 0.0 better is that players should move to 0.0 or wh space, low sec etc. (of course after you have made enough profit to move there/skills etc.) this is the reason why they improve the 0.0 content. not because they are trying to make the 0.0 players happy (this is just an added bonus to waving a stick in the 0.0 area) in every game the point is to send players towards the end game content in eve it is percieved as 0.0.

ps in addition "y'all" is a contraction. every1 knows that contractions are used in the us but in other countries people may not know what your saying (just for your future ref)
Naga Tokiba
Tokiba Industries
#1005 - 2012-05-12 11:16:05 UTC
Let me start by saying that I love the game of EVE. There are so many options and styles of play - posibilities are endless.

Being a hisec industrialist I've previously objected to odds not being even when getting decked - PvP is not my style of play, I dont like it, I dont want it.
I'm fitted for industry, NOT for PvP, and this is the whole core of the problem.

Me with my 5 industrial accounts cannot enjoy having a corp.
And with these new changes, it will be pure stupidity for me to create a corp.

It is a god idea to streamline the war decking system, and I'm all for new and improved stuff, but what I dont like is to be forced into a style of play I dont want and have no interrest in.

The previous 2 times I created my own small corp, I got decked and had to dismantle the corp again. I have no chance of wining, dont want to PVP, and just have to be a sitting duck - where is the fun in that?

I have previously suggested the idea of a "Small Corp Protection Act", allowing for small corps with a limited number of members to enjoy their style of play in our world of EVE, and choose NOT to participate in the war decking system if they dont want to (Checkable option in the corp settings).
What this number should be is not up to me to deside, but somewhere around 8-10 members sounds reasonable to me.

Of cause a "soft" carebear suggestion as this, is way out of line and basis for massive denigration, but it is still my oppinion.

As it stands now, I've choosen to cancel 3 of my 5 accounts Sad. This in my oppinion is NOT a good sollution for the world of EVE (all of us) either, but the style of play I've enjoyed for allmost 6 years now, unfortunately is not "allowed" any more.


In general I would like to say to CCP that all expansions, new content and especially possibilities are most welcome, and keeps EVE being the best game to be part of, just dont force people into a style of play they dont want.

I really hope You will consider some form of "Small Corp Protection Act" allowing players for themselves to deside how they want to be a part of EVE.

This post could most fitting me signed with:
5 -> 2
Indahmawar Fazmarai
#1006 - 2012-05-12 13:10:35 UTC
Naga Tokiba wrote:
Let me start by saying that I love the game of EVE. There are so many options and styles of play - posibilities are endless.

Being a hisec industrialist I've previously objected to odds not being even when getting decked - PvP is not my style of play, I dont like it, I dont want it.
I'm fitted for industry, NOT for PvP, and this is the whole core of the problem.

Me with my 5 industrial accounts cannot enjoy having a corp.
And with these new changes, it will be pure stupidity for me to create a corp.

It is a god idea to streamline the war decking system, and I'm all for new and improved stuff, but what I dont like is to be forced into a style of play I dont want and have no interrest in.

The previous 2 times I created my own small corp, I got decked and had to dismantle the corp again. I have no chance of wining, dont want to PVP, and just have to be a sitting duck - where is the fun in that?

I have previously suggested the idea of a "Small Corp Protection Act", allowing for small corps with a limited number of members to enjoy their style of play in our world of EVE, and choose NOT to participate in the war decking system if they dont want to (Checkable option in the corp settings).
What this number should be is not up to me to deside, but somewhere around 8-10 members sounds reasonable to me.

Of cause a "soft" carebear suggestion as this, is way out of line and basis for massive denigration, but it is still my oppinion.

As it stands now, I've choosen to cancel 3 of my 5 accounts Sad. This in my oppinion is NOT a good sollution for the world of EVE (all of us) either, but the style of play I've enjoyed for allmost 6 years now, unfortunately is not "allowed" any more.


In general I would like to say to CCP that all expansions, new content and especially possibilities are most welcome, and keeps EVE being the best game to be part of, just dont force people into a style of play they dont want.

I really hope You will consider some form of "Small Corp Protection Act" allowing players for themselves to deside how they want to be a part of EVE.

This post could most fitting me signed with:
5 -> 2


I share your pain, second class citizen of New Eden. Your money is not good enough for CCP and so you're quite right denying it to them. I just hope you didn't researched neither, as in that case you would be facing up more sh*t from that front...
Captain Thunk
Explode. Now. Please.
Alliance. Now. Please.
#1007 - 2012-05-12 14:41:31 UTC
Naga Tokiba wrote:
Let me start by saying that I love the game of EVE. There are so many options and styles of play - posibilities are endless.

Except thats precisely what you don't like or want in the game. You want to do what you want with absolute impunity or interference from others.
Indahmawar Fazmarai
#1008 - 2012-05-12 16:21:24 UTC
Captain Thunk wrote:
Naga Tokiba wrote:
Let me start by saying that I love the game of EVE. There are so many options and styles of play - posibilities are endless.

Except thats precisely what you don't like or want in the game. You want to do what you want with absolute impunity or interference from others.



And that's wrong, unusual or bad because...?
Roime
Mea Culpa.
Shadow Cartel
#1009 - 2012-05-12 16:36:53 UTC
After nine years, there still seem to be people who fail to understand that this is 100% PVP game, on one server with full PVP rules.

If you don't like that, get out. The changes you are after ruin the game from the tens of thousands who love the game called EVE Online, and mean it.



.
Spurty
#1010 - 2012-05-12 17:28:58 UTC
Nuetrals interfering with a war and RRing should be given a dire warning which can never be Toggled off . If ignored GCC set, Aggro set (no docking for you), popped by all passer bys.

Now you can join freely (defender side) there is no point keeping this edge case.

Two birds, one wardec update, buckets of tears

There are good ships,

And wood ships,

And ships that sail the sea

But the best ships are Spaceships

Built by CCP
Takara Mora
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#1011 - 2012-05-13 02:13:28 UTC
Derkata wrote:


If there was a way for indy corps to declare "war" on a merc corp or a nullsec corp that forced them to mine or log off for a week, you know people would be up in arms and the "lul you chose to pvp and I support that, soz u dont want to mine" would never fly.

This is without a doubt an anti indy move and anyone who can't see that is likely going to be shooting miners. I don't see why war decs are needed in the first place, there are plenty of people who want to pvp in low sec and null sec.


Amen!!!

Create an Indy Wardec function that will force PvP'ers to mine for week lol - that is indeed the equivalent!
Takara Mora
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#1012 - 2012-05-13 02:17:15 UTC
CCP SoniClover wrote:
Q: Tiny entities deccing large entities?
A: The fact this makes this harder is a conscious decision. We don't want to ban this activity of course, but see no reason to support it.

I'll be continue monitoring this thread and will try to answer further questions.




So, you don't want to support small entities wardeccing large ones? --> but you want to encourage large ones to wardec smaller ones?

WTF?!
Cordo Draken
ABOS Industrial Enterprises
#1013 - 2012-05-13 02:44:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Cordo Draken
Takara Mora wrote:
Derkata wrote:


If there was a way for indy corps to declare "war" on a merc corp or a nullsec corp that forced them to mine or log off for a week, you know people would be up in arms and the "lul you chose to pvp and I support that, soz u dont want to mine" would never fly.

This is without a doubt an anti indy move and anyone who can't see that is likely going to be shooting miners. I don't see why war decs are needed in the first place, there are plenty of people who want to pvp in low sec and null sec.


Amen!!!

Create an Indy Wardec function that will force PvP'ers to mine for week lol - that is indeed the equivalent!


Geez you People are Dense! PvP stands for Player versus Player. Eve Is BASED on PvP. Mining isn't PvP, just a means to make PvP. PvP is interacting with other Humans. Minning is not.

Hope that cleared it up for you non-sensible thinkers. If you want to go play Industry online, quit Eve and design your own game... See how far that gets you and how many people join it, just to sit and spin ships all day.

You certainly don't go to a Tennis court and expect to play baseball do you? How is this not Clear?

Whomever said, "You only get one shot to make a good impression," was utterly wrong. I've made plenty of great impressions with my Autocannons 
Takara Mora
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#1014 - 2012-05-13 02:47:07 UTC
Karim alRashid wrote:
I heard once that WoW had fishing. There you go. Idea



Yup ... there we all go ... cancelling our EVE subscriptions at last b/c we don't like having the PvP playstyle forced on us.

You'd think CCP would realize it's much more profitable to support ALL playstyles ... but clearly they prefer PvP. Maybe they can keep growing ... maybe not. They'll have to resolve this cognitive dissonance at some point ... yes, everyone wants a sandbox to play in ... but ahhh, sadly no, they don't like the sandbox once it's been infested with bullies.

EVE has such mind blowing potential ... why limit it to the bullies?
Takara Mora
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#1015 - 2012-05-13 03:03:42 UTC
Karim alRashid wrote:
Dirk Space wrote:

Having a mechanic in game that allows people to destroy the enjoyment of others, on a whim, and that is all war decs are, should be removed.


How exactly wardecs destroy the enjoyment of others?

Being wardecced or wardeccing yourself allows you to fight in the Empire, with all the convenient stations to dock and rep, without the nasty bubbles and caps/supercaps, with the abundance of supplies and replacement ships.

Don't you enjoy fighting with other people?



Indeed, PvP is nothing but a huge waste of my time.

PvP'ers can rage against it all they want - I'm NOT playing their game.
If CCP tries to force me, they'll lose my business.

Ironically, I'm pretty sure the majority of EVE players would agree (a bit of an assumption but a pretty safe one when you consider how few of them live in losec and nullsec).

Get rid of the silly Wardec mechanic ... there are already plenty of ways to get cheap griefer thrills from ganking or more legitimate lo or null sec activities.
Joe Risalo
State War Academy
Caldari State
#1016 - 2012-05-13 03:09:20 UTC
Takara Mora wrote:
Karim alRashid wrote:
Dirk Space wrote:

Having a mechanic in game that allows people to destroy the enjoyment of others, on a whim, and that is all war decs are, should be removed.


How exactly wardecs destroy the enjoyment of others?

Being wardecced or wardeccing yourself allows you to fight in the Empire, with all the convenient stations to dock and rep, without the nasty bubbles and caps/supercaps, with the abundance of supplies and replacement ships.

Don't you enjoy fighting with other people?



Indeed, PvP is nothing but a huge waste of my time.

PvP'ers can rage against it all they want - I'm NOT playing their game.
If CCP tries to force me, they'll lose my business.

Ironically, I'm pretty sure the majority of EVE players would agree (a bit of an assumption but a pretty safe one when you consider how few of them live in losec and nullsec).

Get rid of the silly Wardec mechanic ... there are already plenty of ways to get cheap griefer thrills from ganking or more legitimate lo or null sec activities.



Similar to my thought, only I would say having a POS in high sec would be the only thing to open yourself up to war.

However, the way to initiate the war is by attacking someone's POS, if their players respond to the aggressive act, then they're confirming the war.
Takara Mora
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#1017 - 2012-05-13 03:09:42 UTC
gfldex wrote:


CCP doesn't like all those little corps that bore new players out of that game. And I wont blame them. If you can't adapt to the new system or can't find a way to make ISK proper (a few billion a week ain't that hard in highsec) you don't deserve a medal.



Ahhh, so CCP wants the "Walmartification" of EVE eh?


Funny .... lot's of ppl LOVE small corps ... that's why there are so many of them ....



Takara Mora
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#1018 - 2012-05-13 03:21:17 UTC
Karim alRashid wrote:
Dear hi-sec industrialists, miners, mission/incursion runners, traders, etc.

You are not supposed to leave yourself defenseless in this game. Hire someone to protect you. Train some combat skills. Get combat pilots in your corps. Learn to defend yourself.



That's the whole point ... we don't LIKE to play that game ... we're over here playing a different game with our spreadsheets and building things ... we have no interestest in YOUR game .... granted, it's a sandbox and I can't avoid you entirely, but in a universe as big as EVE, there's no reason everyone needs to be FORCED to PvP ... the more flexibility you remove for accomodating alternate play styles, the less money CCP will make, period.
Takara Mora
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#1019 - 2012-05-13 03:31:36 UTC
[quote=Nekopyat]

The problem is, CCP is discovering the same thing UO did... the pure PvP sandbox is not sustainable. There simply are not the number of players interested necessary to keep such a complex world running. The dev's started EvE with this null sec image from the failure of UO, but EvE succeeded because it blended multiple playstyles in one universe, allowing the PvE population to balance (and fund) the much smaller PvP/null one. If they rip out high sec, the player base will shrink, and all these shiney graphical updates that people drool over (not to mention server costs) become unviable... quote]


Yep, It's so obvious, yet they really don't seem to get it ...
Cordo Draken
ABOS Industrial Enterprises
#1020 - 2012-05-13 04:14:57 UTC
Takara Mora wrote:
[quote=Nekopyat]

The problem is, CCP is discovering the same thing UO did... the pure PvP sandbox is not sustainable. There simply are not the number of players interested necessary to keep such a complex world running. The dev's started EvE with this null sec image from the failure of UO, but EvE succeeded because it blended multiple playstyles in one universe, allowing the PvE population to balance (and fund) the much smaller PvP/null one. If they rip out high sec, the player base will shrink, and all these shiney graphical updates that people drool over (not to mention server costs) become unviable... quote]


Yep, It's so obvious, yet they really don't seem to get it ...


I'm sorry, but you play EVE because it's a vast Space Adventure Game, with a Ton of potential. People will continue to play because this is the Best MMO out there, hands down. It continues to grow, be maintained and developed. Your theory is for the very weak at heart in the first place. Sure, If you're so absolutely pathetic, that you can't hack surviving a PVP Game YOU KNEW was to simulate the wretched Coldness of Space, then you don't deserve a place in EVE anyways. You All fail to see that this game is 9 years old, and through thick and thin, it has grown. The ones who can adapt have great stories about their experience. The weak shrivel off and ***** about it not being like WOW.

I've pushed people into PvP plenty of times, and even when they smolder and die, a good number of them say something to the effect of, "Damn that was fun! Most fun I've had playing Eve, even though I died." And a lot of them get more involved with PvP because of that one experience. Am I a bully...? No. I'm an enhancer to the game. Yes, I'm certain that I've pushed people to the point of quiting EVE, but I've also changed people's experience of the Game to a whole new level that they had yet to venture into, and thanked me for it.

Your Ideology of a carefree part of space doesn't exist here in EVE. If you can't own up to that Very Fact... you can't just lie to yourself and say IT SHOULD BE SAFE! You have to change your mindest and accept it or quit, but the True components of EVE will survive and gain a myriad of great adventure stories to tell. And that's what makes EVE one of a kind and so great to play. Being forced into PvP, is truly being forced to play the game as it was intended with vast human interactions. You play this game online for a reason... that's why for the majority of us, EVE didn't come in a box.

Whomever said, "You only get one shot to make a good impression," was utterly wrong. I've made plenty of great impressions with my Autocannons 