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This is so LOL!

The majority of the Eve player base lives in high sec, in small corporations, and are obviously not so interested in 23.5/7 non-consensual PVP (if they were, they would be located in lo/null sec or WH space).

Let's be realistic. Make it easier and/or cheaper to wardec the high sec carebears and they are not going to "adapt" - they are simply going to quit. I fail to see how it will be better for the game and CCP, if subscriber numbers take a massive dive after the first few weeks of Inferno.

But, for grins, let's see how this new system might play out:

Inferno release on May 22. Goons wardec every small corp in high sec. Figure 25M - 50M ISK per corp - whoop dee do.

May 23 - Goon killmails reach unprecedented highs.

May 24 - 90% of high sec players now docked in station.

A few carebear corps hire newly advertised merc corps - many of which, incidentally, just happen to be alt corps of the Goons, created in anticipation of the new wardec system. Much laughter is had as the high sec corp gets pwned, losing billions in assets, while the merc corps are "helpless" to repel the Goon assault (yet still able to scoop up any loot left by their employers).

Other carebear corps band together into an alliance and create their own PVP fleet. The alliance, of course, is well infiltrated by Goon alts. Laughter is had as the Goons plunder the high sec alliance wallets, hangers, and POSes - and dissolve the alliance (after all, the alliance was probably started by a Goon alt corp). Given that the Goon players are a lot more experienced at PVP than the carebears, many of their alts become FCs of the carebear alliance. More laughter is had as the Goon alt FCs lead the carebear alliance fleet out to be slaughtered - again and again.

May 31 - Eve subscriber numbers drop by 20-25%, as half of the high sec players quit the game out of frustration. CCP announces more layoffs.

I'm all for more PVP, but you can't do it by trying to force uninterested players to engage in it.

Hi CCP,

did you think about a way for "limited" aggression between two persons.

e.g. arranged 1v1 PvP in Highsec (so nobody "can" interfere) (something like todays canflipping)
or:
i want to web my frighter alt, which is not in my corp. (interference from outsiders who kill my webbingalt because of a global Flag dosnt sound promesing...)

thx for feedback

Griefers from my experience tend to be really bad at PvP, once a few carebear corps hire mercs against them they will give in. By bringing large groups of allys into a fight you can really have a considerable advantage as the defender.

The only thing I would like to see is at the start of the war you can choose to make it mutual (an actual war) for the week, and put in the same amount of ISK as the agressor. Then the winner of the war gets 3/4 of the ISK back and the war can only go on for a single week. If the war ends with 0 kills both sides end of first week then war continues (prevent simply docking up). Some measure and concequence for victory/loss would be a vast improvement.

Right now CCP are revisiting but in effect no changing the core functionality which is what allows them to actually get things out in a short release cycle. Then they will most likely go back and itterate on the functionality later adding in further functionality or complexity. In effect what we are getting is a tidier version of the current system but CCP have a way which doesn't require man hours to prevent decshield etc.

Awesome news

Ninja edit: I also agree that you need to sort out your cost formula. Try to protect small corps up to say 50 members or something by heavier war costs, I liked the earlier ideas of a ratio of attacking corp to defending corp. To prevent gaming the system use a rolling average of corp size over the last month. War dec corps do so every week or so, so would not leave corp a month to reduce a rolling average.

From what I saw in the panel on this from fanfest. they doesn't care. People asked about edge cases and were told they want to build a one size fits all solution and not worry about the edge cases. People pointed out how it could be gamed, and again, they aren't balancing for edge cases. Instead they are building a monolithic solution to war. Eve-Uni asked about cost, and were told they have 3000 members, so 1.5billion in cost is a fine deterrent from being wardec'd to hell. 1.5bil is nothing. RvB brought up that this screws their entire style of play. And these aren't "Edge cases". These are marque organizations of EvE Online at this point. And this change breaks them.

CCP did not think this through, and most of the people sitting here on the forums aren't thinking it through either. Eve is interconnected. Look what happened to prices after the goon ice interdiction. A very small portion of the player base got ganked and everyone teared. Goons pulled off the largest troll in history with that. And this change isn't hitting a small portion of the player base. This is hitting all of highsec. Over half the eve community is about to have their style of play changed, and no one is really thinking about the butterfly effect consequences. They just see chances to kill people and pretty new killmail features. When at the end of the day, this is going to have a negative impact on their wallet once prices go up because people can't get out of wardecs to keep farming the stuff that goes into making their ships and modules.

They are not changing the war system, they are fiddling with an integral part of EvE that has knock on effects to everything else in the sandbox. And whatever is said against it so far is being blithely ignored.

Braindead "solution" #1: make the cost of wars linked to the size of corporation! So big fish vs small fish = big cost for big fish!

Self-evident loophole for those endowed with a brain: 8,000 goon alts start 8,000 one-man corps and wardec 8,000 smalholders at once and for minimal cost.

Then, May 22 Inferno is released and et cetera.

While I agree that the changes look really good I think its time like this they really need to get to the core of what the mechanic or functionality is intended to do because as many of us know the war dec system simply exists to grief and force players into PvP

I believe that EVE is and always has been about risk vs reward but that risk ALWAYS starts with choice

If I wanted to get the better loots and make the big bucks I could travel to null sec or WH space and do whatever I please - but it starts with the desire and choice to actually do that in the first place

The war dec system as it stands only provides an advantage to the attacker because it provides them cheap kills and minimal cost - usually the only factors involved in keeping a war going is if the attackers get bored of not having any war targets to kill because they have forced their opponent to stay in the stations; and to be honest any game that prevents you from playing it is flawed in my book

CCP must understand that war decs are pretty much every new EVE players first experiance in PvP - but its hardly ever in a favorable position; most of the time new players will join a inexperianced corp, get war deced and the corp will simply shut down for a week or so while it blows over. If they new player even wanted to participate they'd be annihilated; disheartened and more likely to quit the game because they feel like they cannot play the game because as soon as they undock they are a target; and yes you could argue that without having a war dec but at least the agressor knows the cost of attacking them and makes the choice

Is being at war really about ganking noobs as they undock in their mission ship?

Wars seem to be more about getting cheap risk free kills than anything about resolving political differences or fighting over resources

Personally I'd like to see a system where it allows the defender corp some measures to prevent or at least minimise the damage taken from wars so that they still function in the way of allowing corps to fight it out but not to the point of allowing endless grief

Suggestion

When at war concord defines 'war zones'; systems where the war is valid.

If corp members want to actually particpate in the war effort then they can enter the system and become a valid war target and pew pew as usual.

Anything outside defined systems will operate as normal (ie, if high sec and they are attacked by an warring corp then they get concorded the same as if they weren't at war).

This type of system would ensure that

a) If the defending corp doesn't want to fight they can just avoid those systems. Players in the defending corp can carry on as normal if they wanted to if they didn't want any part in the war and those that do want to fight know where to go to get it. (Again it is 'risk vs reward' but it starts with choice

b) Attacking corps no longer have a massive advantage of simply camping high sec stations or L4 agents and waiting for easy kills. Anyone who strays into the war zone would most likely be aware of it and therefore prepared to fight

c) Attacking corps know that if they start a war and no one goes into the war zone then their war is costly and ineffective - essentially boring them enough to end the war but without forcing the defending corp to 'go on holiday' for a week

d) If the war is mutual then all systems become valid 'war zones' (just as the current system).

Pretty sure 8,343 members in an alliance will take you out of realistic contention as far as wardecs go.

You have to hand it to Mitanni for blindsiding the CSM with that one. That or the rest just didn't bother to read it

Sorry, but thats not good enough.

There needs to be a way for defenders to have a bounty payment system, like automatically pay the mercs based on ISK loss to aggressor (or something like that).

Aggressor (probably merc) and ally (merc) will be able to easily exploit the system you describe by mutually agreeing not to honour the wardec, honor among thieves and all that.

Do it properly.

Oh, yeah, I see where this is going. You don't like having little corps attack you, so you get your big CCP buddies to protect you from it. Yeah, big scary goons.

Let me tell you something. "all those little corps that bore new players" are actually a legitimate style and preference of a lot of us. I would be BORED STIFF playing the way you do, in a massive organization, part of some big blob. I'm an entrepreneur -- I'd rather create something, see what I and a few friends can do, us against the universe.

Yes, including the goons.

No, I'm not griping because I can't afford to wardec you. You've missed the point entirely, as usual. I wasn't planning to wardec you before, anyway.

And maybe the goons would ignore continue to ignore me -- not wardec 8000 small corps for the hell of it. But the Goons aren't the only ones out there. And as this is proposed, it takes JUST ONE corp, to decide to put a random small corp out of business just for laughs. With no recourse, but to disband the corp.

There are those who'd find that hilarious. I find it pointless.

So -- why the beep are you arguing this point, anyway? What's in it for the Goons, if you think this is all so fine and I should be happy about it?

Is the goon membership suffering from terminal ennui? Was the Gallente Ice caper just not enough excitement, and members are dropping their accounts like flies? All 3% of you?

I am griping because this is completely one-sided. It doesn't promote fair fights.

One-sided is boring, to most of us. But there are a few who like it just fine.

We all know that majority of EVE players are in Hi-sec small corps.
We all know that all this years it was like that.
We all know that players like to have something theirs (corp).
We all know that players wont change their game stile.
We all know that if you invested years of game time in SP for industry you will not train for something else.
I seems that you want to definitely kill industry. You nerf it with every expansion and with this you are making the biggest step.
We all know that in majority of cases when corp is war deced:
players don't undock or players go to NPC corp and some players just leave the game - this changes will make this things permanent - more players that leave.
You cant force people to play the game differently.
You gave them options on the beginning and now you want to take them away from them???
With this, you can just kill all corps with less then like 1000 people, it will have the same effect.

What do you want to accomplish with this changes?
You want that all people that are not pure PvP griefers leave the game?
You want to kill the small and medium corps?
You want to kill the industry?
You want to push all players to 0.0?
You want to push all players to NPC corps?
You want to make EVE less attractive to new players?
You want to make EVE less attractive to any players that don't call themself griefers?
I really don't know what your intention is, only bad things are coming to my mind.

What ever you think you will accomplish with this - it will ruin the game for majority of players and you know what comes with that.