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Crime & Punishment

 
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The new mining bot scourge
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Subdolus Venator
State War Academy
Caldari State
#41 - 2012-04-02 17:38:35 UTC
Prince Kobol wrote:
All I have is a very good understanding how RMT Merchants work and Common Sense.

If you believe that the small amount of revenue those accounts generate compared to the vast amount of revenue CCP lose by players purchasing Isk via RMT Merchants and not via Authorised Plex dealers then what can I say.

That will serve, for now.

Carry on.

EVE is EVE - Feaces will eventuate.
Zubrette
R3d Fire
#42 - 2012-04-02 22:39:29 UTC
Bot mining in highsec doesn't yield as much money as the endless isk faucet called incursions that you barely even have to be breathing and or awake to do. Pick your battles dude, I'd rather have ice mining bots than the inflation of incursions
Ildryn
IDLE INTENTIONS
#43 - 2012-04-03 02:26:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Ildryn
Pretty sure that anything that mimics mouse movements and keystrokes is against EULA/TOS.

Even if it is a person using a program to clone his own movements with a single mouse/keyboard.

Edit: I stand corrected.
Adacia Calla
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#44 - 2012-04-03 03:16:27 UTC
Jita Bloodtear wrote:
Reyda maricadie - May 3, 2012

Can I have your time machine? :D?

Test signature....forum not applying settings :(
Seniae 0n3
#45 - 2012-04-03 12:03:17 UTC
In case you guys want some new highsec ground to hunt some bots ... try Silen. The icebelt has been invaded by bots (or we think are bots) since about 2 months now. User count in the system went from 15 to 70 in the weekends.

We have a bunch of semi afk iceminers in there too who will chatter now and then. I just think it's not easy to tell who/what is a bot and who/what not except from some local chatter.

Besides all that ... yeah im a scarebear :) ... combat's not my thing.
Keeley Ellis
Perkone
Caldari State
#46 - 2012-04-03 20:31:20 UTC
Zubrette wrote:
Bot mining in highsec doesn't yield as much money as the endless isk faucet called incursions that you barely even have to be breathing and or awake to do. Pick your battles dude, I'd rather have ice mining bots than the inflation of incursions


Oh look! Skunkworks spewing out rhetoric about incursions again. They must have missed the whole RMT thing or how ISK sellers actually get the currency to sell in the first place.
Jita Bloodtear
Bloodtear Labs
#47 - 2012-04-03 23:40:43 UTC
Adacia Calla wrote:
Jita Bloodtear wrote:
Reyda maricadie - May 3, 2012

Can I have your time machine? :D?

Sure, but be sure to have it back before midnight
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#48 - 2012-04-04 00:36:29 UTC
Ildryn wrote:
Pretty sure that anything that mimics mouse movements and keystrokes is against EULA/TOS.

Even if it is a person using a program to clone his own movements with a single mouse/keyboard.

Multiboxing is fine. But macroing would not be.

I actually multibox but not using any programs (flying three different ships), however with something like mining I can see how using 7 or whatever hulks with an orca would be a perfect candidate for ixboxer or the other approved programs.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Tara Hirl
Doomheim
#49 - 2012-04-04 05:05:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Tara Hirl
Zombo Brian wrote:
Can somene post me a good and cheap fit to destroy mackinaws? is a catalyst with blasters enough to kill one of those mackinaws solo

actually, i am an ice miner myself, but bots really **** me off, and i want to do something about it

Last night I've managed to put down a mackinaw with six 1.5 days young characters flying thrashers.
From what I see in combat log five thrashers should be sufficient for non-tanked Mackinaw in 0.7 system.
Each should be able to fire twice before concord arrives.

Thrashers' fit - http://eve.battleclinic.com/loadout/59950-Thrasher-Day-2-gank-machine.html

In addition to loot from victim's wreck I've managed to get some nice T2 salvage which worth about 18kk (Jita sell), so the operation turns to be a little profitable after all.
Not really the best result I've ever had on salvaging - just a day before that I've salvaged stuff for about 60k from some forgotten Mackinaw wreck.

Mind the insane prices for thrasher and 280mm artillery in Jita though - it is a way cheaper to purchase them in Minmatar space or ever build yourself using unresearched (ME0) BPOs.

For this proof-of-concept I've run 12 accounts simultaneously ("perfect" salvager & the only mature character in this affair; warp-in point & looter and 10 characters in strike team) and it was quite a pain in the back to control all of them.
I suggest to either use something like ISBoxer to control strike team or bring a friend a two to distribute workload.
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#50 - 2012-04-04 05:42:42 UTC
Tara Hirl wrote:
Mind the insane prices for thrasher and 280mm artillery in Jita though - it is a way cheaper to purchase them in Minmatar space or ever build yourself using unresearched (ME0) BPOs.

Hi there.

Sorry that CFC members are buying thrashers and 280mm artillery. It's for a horrible cause. But like the ones you are using, they will be used to gank, so it's not all bad.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Soldarius
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#51 - 2012-04-04 08:29:46 UTC
GMs have publicly stated that certain items that allow for cloning of player inputs are allowed. Some sort of gaming joystick or some such and multiboxing programs are fine.

The loose and fast rule is that if there actually is a player sending the inputs, even if those inputs are duplicated to many clients, it is allowed. Its when you have a program making autonomous decisions with no player input that CCP gets antsy.

cba to find the relevant thread. Google is your friend.

http://youtu.be/YVkUvmDQ3HY
Nevryn Takis
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#52 - 2012-04-04 16:41:01 UTC
Alavaria Fera wrote:
Tara Hirl wrote:
Mind the insane prices for thrasher and 280mm artillery in Jita though - it is a way cheaper to purchase them in Minmatar space or ever build yourself using unresearched (ME0) BPOs.

Hi there.

Sorry that CFC members are buying thrashers and 280mm artillery. It's for a horrible cause. But like the ones you are using, they will be used to gank, so it's not all bad.

Argh so you're responsible for my main being able to sell thrashers for 1mil+ instead of 750k before christmas ..
shame my main doesn't produce 280s .. need any 425mm T2s?
Subdolus Venator
State War Academy
Caldari State
#53 - 2012-04-04 17:30:16 UTC
Subdolus Venator wrote:
Prince Kobol wrote:
All I have is a very good understanding how RMT Merchants work and Common Sense.

If you believe that the small amount of revenue those accounts generate compared to the vast amount of revenue CCP lose by players purchasing Isk via RMT Merchants and not via Authorised Plex dealers then what can I say.

That will serve, for now.

Carry on.

Recent developments have confirmed your position. I stand corrected.

EVE is EVE - Feaces will eventuate.
Atomik Harmonik
Working Girls
#54 - 2012-04-04 18:43:15 UTC
Buck Futz wrote:
...no action from CCP


There has been action from CCP ... against you, personally.

Just wait until you can't activate targeting or any 'offensive' modules against other players (or player bots) in High Security Space...because that is now an 'exploit'. You know it's going to happen sooner or later.

You should leave the bots alone and go after the real players, just like CCP does, until it's no longer possible.

I might even try it once before it gets deemed to be an exploit.
Jita Bloodtear
Bloodtear Labs
#55 - 2012-04-06 01:28:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Jita Bloodtear
I've uncovered a new generation which specifically responds to "Jita Bloodtear" in local, but not my ganking chars - yet. These guys are currently basing out of Silen (.5 sec system). I'm camping them into station between ganks just by being online. 60% of them follow rule #10 as well.

October 20th Generation:
Sisek Net - Oct 19, 2011
Ivan Bogun - Oct 20, 2011
Androme Da - Oct 20, 2011
Anya Kozaku - Oct 20, 2011
Chika Bum - Oct 19, 2011
Misa Lin - Oct 19, 2011
Parovo Z - Oct 19, 2011
Pashun To - Oct 20, 2011
Rad Ion - Oct 20, 2011
Valu Ev - Oct 19, 2011
Ved'ma Gor - Oct 20, 2011
Vse Ok - Oct 19, 2011
GwenST - Oct 19, 2011
Abrasha - Oct 19, 2011
Sama Ole, Oct 20, 2011
Kyra Lineya
Advanced Imperial Military Academy
#56 - 2012-04-06 05:48:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Kyra Lineya
I can say you are right about the ship naming with spaces before the "person's Mackinaw" and standard fitting habits, they also dock up individually if you simply lock their ship and stay in station till the person comes back to restart the macro..

Although, your list is very incomplete. When I did my investigation several months ago, I literally flew through every high sec ice belt to search them all. I found near 200 accounts with the same naming structure, ship fittings, and auto dock on lock, as well as the character creation dates of your coined term "generations" of them being minutes apart. It's pretty clear to me it's all one person

I have noticed there have been more since then in one system, so I am sure there are increasing numbers of them elsewhere too since I had done my full investigation

For the very few accounts that have not always been in an NPC corp, they ALWAYS link to ONLY one person, Calisto 33, who happened to be the founder of PromTovar corp, in Shadow of xxDeathxx alliance

You can occasionally also direction scan other ships with that space naming structure that are actually flying around high sec in ships other than industrials. What do the owners of these ships also have in common? They are all from russian corps that usually have been or are in Shadow of xxDeathxx. Unless there is some weird thing where the russian client inserts spaces in front of ship names, I figured it was some high sec indicator for Shadow of xxDeathxx alts so they don't get ganked

Since I am directly accusing and linking an Alliance affiliation I am going to include at least some further proof I've gathered to lead me to that conclusion

There are about 8 important names when it comes to linking this together

Calisto 33
Laineu
Nastya Shturmak
Galya Bol
Bota Nik
Pirat O
San Tengo
BETE PAH

Calisto 33 is the most important. He happens to be the Founder of PromTovar (a Shadow of xxDeathxx alliance corporation)
Now I could stop right there and ask you to look up the contract history of the corporation PromTovar and basically be done linking this corp with these 200 bots. Go ahead and look it up. In the contract history you will find that they have contracted interestingly with 4 bots on my list and Laineu twice
He also personally has public contracts with 3 other bots not listed here but on my list of investigated bots. 115m to 0uni Sexx for an ibis, and 120m to 0nisa Lama for 2 ibis', and Ajenik Oro a 30 day plex for a retriever

Laineu happens to be the CEO of a 4 man corp that includes bots of the same features and also has publicly contracted interestingly with Calisto 33 on 8 occasions
Galya Bol and Nastya Shturmak are in the same corp CEO'd by Laineu and fly the same mackinaw setups and are on my list

Pirat O and Bota Nik are also bots on my list, but are also in the same corp CEO'd by BETE PAH. BETE PAH happens to have been in the current holding corp (AERO TRANS) CEO and FOUNDED by Calisto 33

San Tengo is another bot on my list that spent time in AERO TRANS corp during the same time period as BETE PAH


While there is no way for me to be sure through my investigation whether Calisto 33 has only been disassociated with PromTovar for plausible deniability and not linking the alliance, or if he was thrown out. Where would all this isk be going?
I may be wrong, but, I figure a ice bot can make about 100m a day with the recent price increases. Now multiply that by about 200... 20 Billion isk a day being mined in ice... where is that all going?

This is quite the problem and I'm posting to verify your findings.

My complete bot list from this investigation is simply jotted in notepad with a very detailed and annotated structure which makes it confusing if you don't understand my methods to madness, otherwise I would post it now. If you want proof of my list, I'll clean it up and post, my point however being, this is legit.
Jita Bloodtear
Bloodtear Labs
#57 - 2012-04-06 07:21:34 UTC
BuzzyBeagle wrote:

How bout just silently admiring my handsome avatar, and leave the assplosion talk to the big boys.

Your avatar is quite handsome good sir. In other news, we managed to slowly and deliberately pick off every single bot in that newly discovered generation. They exhibited all the classic behaviors (except their pods weren't doing the undocking/redocking thing). We controlled their movement, forcing them from station to the belt, back to the station again, for hours. They apparently already had Jita Bloodtear and Ganker Bloodtear blacklisted. We easily found ways around that
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#58 - 2012-04-06 18:57:23 UTC
Jita Bloodtear wrote:
BuzzyBeagle wrote:

How bout just silently admiring my handsome avatar, and leave the assplosion talk to the big boys.

Your avatar is quite handsome good sir. In other news, we managed to slowly and deliberately pick off every single bot in that newly discovered generation. They exhibited all the classic behaviors (except their pods weren't doing the undocking/redocking thing). We controlled their movement, forcing them from station to the belt, back to the station again, for hours. They apparently already had Jita Bloodtear and Ganker Bloodtear blacklisted. We easily found ways around that

Ooh, good job! Keep up the good work.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Henry Haphorn
Killer Yankee
#59 - 2012-04-06 19:33:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Henry Haphorn
I remember an old Logoffski technique in which a hostile entered a null-sec system and created a bookmark in the spot that he suspects the miner will be in. He then proceeds to log off in that spot. Later on, the hostile will occasionally log back in every once in a while to see if anyone happens to be there on the spot he bookmarked. Sometimes, grav sites are bookmarked as logoffski traps as well.

You could use this trick in high-sec only you have the added advantage of a neutral scout alt that can be your eyes for your main ganker that is currently logged off.

Adapt or Die
Jita Bloodtear
Bloodtear Labs
#60 - 2012-04-07 04:27:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Jita Bloodtear
So, I can update information about the April 11th, 2011 bot generation. They fled Caldari space after much persecution and settled over in a Gallente ice system]Angymonne. Tracking agents placed them here but it took me a few days to get around to following them. I arrived and this is what I found from those that were on my watchlist:

Local upon entering
http://dl.eve-files.com/media/1204/2012.04.07.01.29.52.jpg

Ten of the April 11th generation were here! So I immediately dispatched a freighter full of catalysts to head in this direction, and loudly boasted about it in local, and discussed the situation publicly with the natives. They knew full well how bad the situation was, and had praise for Buck Futz who had "pirated" there in the past week. Helping to clean up the mess.

After approximately 15 minutes of discussion, and hearing their tales of why they thought they were bots - and referencing them to this thread, to each rule I have in the first post, they agreed completely with the holy bot hunt cause.

BAM! The bot owner notices Jita Bloodtear in local.
http://dl.eve-files.com/media/1204/2012.04.07.01.45.11.jpg

Further discussion in local, we agreed that all these bots/characters were linked and were the same guy. This expands the list of bots in the April 11th generation substantially (as we expected it was huge to begin with).


THERE ARE AT LEAST 85 ACCOUNTS IN THIS SINGLE BOT GENERATION:
Ajenik Oro - April 5, 2011
0na Nistka - April 7, 2011
Artem Arheolog - April 7, 2011
0nisa Lama - April 7, 2011
0bol Tuss - April 7, 2011
Nika Oksaras - April 7, 2011
Sobaky Doo - April 7, 2011
0Urik Viliana - April 7, 2011
Abon Akachi - April 7, 2011
4oni Kobol - April 8, 2011
Pete Kusoni - April 8, 2011
5 th Element - April 8, 2011
Nastya Shturmak - April 8, 2011
Madjahed Dushman - April 8, 2011
Sara 0'Connor - April 11, 2011
Trannythi - April 12, 2011
Quiatris - April 11, 2011
Spelloyar - April 11, 2011
Milashka Mala - April 11, 2011
Baron Don - April 11, 2011
0H0 Ufo - April 11, 2011
Muji4ek 11 - April 11, 2011
wyvernjack - April 11, 2011
Thotumali - April 11, 2011
Onyxarmy - April 11, 2011
Traamros - April 11, 2011
Fruiany - April 11, 2011
Izobella Shoo - April 11, 2011
Hollysword - April 11, 2011
tegran shah - April 12, 2011
Kornet 00 - April 12, 2011
Swordsteeli - April 12, 2011
Falconsfli - April 12, 2011
Crufalcon - April 12, 2011
Krislyassa - April 12, 2011
Millstoner - April 12, 2011
Gracecaryn - April 12, 2011
Krisuvial - April 12, 2011
Zaebiska - August 27, 2011
BolonkaA - Aug 27, 2011
Zombak Gool - Aug 27, 2011
Monna Liza - Aug 27, 2011
Gusta Oriki - Sept 1, 2011
Kvoha - Sept 1, 2011
PortugaleZ - Sept 1, 2011
Forigon Kami - Sept 1, 2011
Stephen Phoenix - Sept 4, 2011
Josephine Saverre - Sept 4, 2011
Mini Yani - Sep 28, 2011
Musorok 02 - Sept 28, 2011
User San - Sept 28, 2011
0ktaba - Oct 15, 2011
La Bzin - Oct 15, 2011
0rganizma - Oct 15, 2011
Moska L - Oct 15, 2011
Jak Ass - Oct 15, 2011
Viggona - Oct 15, 2011
Zub Nik - Oct 16, 2011
Cucbke - Oct 16, 2011
ElmaaM - Oct 16, 2011
Tussik - Oct 16, 2011
Gorilla S - Oct 16, 2011
Bek Kan - Oct 16, 2011
Bomja Ra - Oct 16, 2011
Gur Stan - Oct 16, 2011
Kiss M E - Oct 16, 2011
Hosioda - Oct 18, 2011
Kotom Kin - Oct 18, 2011
Sisek Net - Oct 19, 2011
Ivan Bogun - Oct 20, 2011
Androme Da - Oct 20, 2011
Anya Kozaku - Oct 20, 2011
Chika Bum - Oct 19, 2011
Misa Lin - Oct 19, 2011
Parovo Z - Oct 19, 2011
Pashun To - Oct 20, 2011
Rad Ion - Oct 20, 2011
Valu Ev - Oct 19, 2011
Ved'ma Gor - Oct 20, 2011
Vse Ok - Oct 19, 2011
GwenST - Oct 19, 2011
Abrasha - Oct 19, 2011
Sama Ole - Oct 20, 2011
Gruzino4ka - Oct 19, 2011
Kommuniaka - Oct 19, 2011

This is a single player who controls all of these bots. 80% of them are online right now which means they are infact unique accounts.

When do you plan to do something about this CCP?