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Jita Will Not Burn

Author
Skye Aurorae
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#21 - 2012-03-29 06:24:27 UTC
I'm sure that goonswam will sell you 'jita gate licenses' so you can negotiate a payment for safe passage.

Skye Aurora is a 7 year old Girl Who Wants to be on the CSM! Unfortunately, the Lawyers say you have to be 21 - oh well.

Pippgirl
Samvirkelaget
#22 - 2012-03-29 08:15:16 UTC
Jita will burn. And it will be camped, so people will generally not undock or jump into system. We will also likely see that once Jita is camped, the campaign will spill over to the other tradehubs, at least in prime times.
Emma d'Acques
Doomheim
#23 - 2012-03-29 09:25:22 UTC
Oh, Jita will burn, of that I am sure.
I think it's more a question of "Will CCP be prepared for it? Will we finally have windows in our CQ's?"

I'm not totally useless, I can be used as a bad example.

Sturmwolke
#24 - 2012-03-29 11:00:16 UTC
corestwo wrote:

You don't understand the concept of "massive alpha", do you?


Depends on how the logis handle them, the "massive alpha" is not a guarantee.
Also consider defensive fleet boosters.
Pippgirl
Samvirkelaget
#25 - 2012-03-29 11:10:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Pippgirl
Sturmwolke wrote:
corestwo wrote:

You don't understand the concept of "massive alpha", do you?


Depends on how the logis handle them, the "massive alpha" is not a guarantee.
Also consider defensive fleet boosters.


Its pretty naive to think that anyone can fend off a massive alpha from angry angry CFC without being a major alliance/ coalition used to huuuuge fleet battles. If you are in their way, you will be toast. Simple. :)

Seriously, I've seen CFC fleets that have 1-shotted carriers easily, and 2 shotted super carriers. Massive alpha huwts.
Sturmwolke
#26 - 2012-03-29 11:24:09 UTC
Pippgirl wrote:
Its pretty naive to think that anyone can fend off a massive alpha from angry angry CFC ...

Don't get me wrong. Tactics flow like water (if you understand that term).
You're thinking in static terms.
Mookie Quantico
Doomheim
#27 - 2012-03-29 12:17:50 UTC
Jas Dor wrote:
So the Goons want to do a suicide interdiction of Jita..


Beats the hell out of spinning... which is what most of Jita does anyway... I for one welcome this event if for no other reason than sheer entertainment value. Cool

Mook
Kara Roideater
#28 - 2012-03-29 13:56:16 UTC
Whilst 'Burn Jita' is a great idea, isn't the appropriate counter-tactic just for enemies of the Goons (null-sec and otherwise) to fly empty Orcas and T1 indy ships in and out of Jita all day long and collect a significant isk loss ratio win?
Jarnis McPieksu
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#29 - 2012-03-29 14:12:58 UTC
They do not need to suicide gank that many ships. Only enough that people stop jumping into Jita due to too high risk of a pricy Freighter/hauler loss.

Word will spread quickly, Jita commerce will be severely impacted and at that point those few clueless idiots that still do jump in can be ganked with fairly small effort.

(This of course all assumes Goons do what they claim they'll do... but otherwise it is fairly easy to predict the outcome of the planned action)

As to what happens after that will be the interesting bit... how long Goons keep it up? How will the market react? Will manufacturers and raw material producers start selling stuff at next door system? What will CCP do when the carebears (predictably) being their whine concert over the ganks?
Veeil
Infinite Improbability Inc
#30 - 2012-03-29 14:37:48 UTC
I like how you guys think you have a clue. Big smile

As much as this event will hurt myself and my own, +2 for bringing change to EVE
Doddy
Excidium.
#31 - 2012-03-29 14:59:23 UTC
Jas Dor wrote:
So the Goons want to do a suicide interdiction of Jita.

In past 24 hours Jita had 45000 jumps.

Lets half that for number of unique players. That gives us 22,500 jumps.

Lets figure 10% of those are "high value targets" (I'd personally put the number at more like 20% but ok). That means an average of 94 high value jump ins an hour

Lets figure the goons want to kill at least 10% of that number. We'll make this 10 deaths an hours.

Jita is a 0.9 system. A ship can normally get off one, but not two, volleys before getting concorded.

A T2 fit tornado Alphas about 11K with all skills V. A T1 fit alphas around 8000. A freighter has 200,000 EHP requiring 25 ships for the kill. A freighter has less EHP than a properly tanked Orca (by far the most common ship type around Jita these days).

This gives a minimum T1 fit op tempo of at least 250 ships/hour or 6000 ships/day. Assuming a cost of 50m ship this will give us a daily burn rate of 3 Trillion isk/day. Some of this will be offset by loot drops. Lets say half. The goon supposedly have a monthly income of around 1.5 trillion. If they have saved for this for six months, then burn Jita could run for about six days.

Keep in mind this is assuming a low ball ship costs, max skills and a descent recovery rate. All of this to blow up one in every hundred ships heading into Jita.

Conclusion: In a fight between the goons and the market, bet on the market.


You forget about a) all the individuals wallets, b) all the non goon groups taking part, c) goons bet heavily on themselves on the market before anouncing anything so are probably raking in the isk at the same time, d) fear (and speculation) is the main weapon not 1400s, e) Huge numbers of high value targets will not be freighters requiring 25 tornados to die.

People will not jump into Jita if the expect to be ganked, that is the goons aim.

Finally if 1000 CFC plus whatever randoms join in can only pop 10 ships an hour they are doing something very wrong.
Doddy
Excidium.
#32 - 2012-03-29 15:02:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Doddy
6000 ships a day at 50 million each is 300 billion anyway not 3 trillion, only out by a factor of ten
Doddy
Excidium.
#33 - 2012-03-29 15:12:17 UTC
Sturmwolke wrote:
corestwo wrote:

You don't understand the concept of "massive alpha", do you?


Depends on how the logis handle them, the "massive alpha" is not a guarantee.


You don't undesrtand the concept of alpha at all in fact. The concept of alpha ignores logis.
Doddy
Excidium.
#34 - 2012-03-29 15:13:56 UTC
Jas Dor wrote:
Ave Volta wrote:
I don't care who's ships and being blown up at a greater rate. It's all good for the economy Twisted


Did you really mean to post that under the corp/alliance ticker that you used?


Red Frog is Mittanis alt corp, they will be the only freighters alowed in and out of Jita. Prices will sadly have to rise however.
Darronis Olachenko
#35 - 2012-03-29 15:20:12 UTC
I think it was a big mistake for them to reveal their plans to begin with. If they really wanted maximum effect they shouldn't have said a word, or perhaps even just hinted at something but kept the details tight lipped. Now the only people that will be left in Jita when the end of April rolls around will be those completely oblivious. While I'm sure even that number will be higher than I expect, most people will just shrug and move to Amarr or whatever and continue going about their business.
Roxwar
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#36 - 2012-03-29 15:24:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Roxwar
Jas Dor wrote:
Rengerel en Distel wrote:
You can find killmails where it takes less than a dozen ships to kill a freighter. If their whole alliance and other griefers really want to destroy everyone, they'll do it. They'll make the isk back just controlling the markets in the other regions.



Yes, it take less than a dozen T2 fit ships to kill a freighter in a 0.5 system where each attacking ship can cycle its guns twice. That is a large difference from a 0.9 system with concord on grid.



You do know concord can be pulled away from sitting on the station grid by suicide decoys right? Right?

But regardless, your missing the point. It's not about how many frieghters will burn daily, it's about the number of frieghter pilots that will put off their market trip for fear of being one of those 4/5 kills per hour. Its the fear factor thats going to have the biggest impact on the market you number crunching 'tard.

Personally, i cant wait heh
Doddy
Excidium.
#37 - 2012-03-29 15:38:01 UTC
Darronis Olachenko wrote:
I think it was a big mistake for them to reveal their plans to begin with. If they really wanted maximum effect they shouldn't have said a word, or perhaps even just hinted at something but kept the details tight lipped. Now the only people that will be left in Jita when the end of April rolls around will be those completely oblivious. While I'm sure even that number will be higher than I expect, most people will just shrug and move to Amarr or whatever and continue going about their business.


In the very unlikely event that would happen its not like amarr is far away from Jita is it? Pretty sure in U.s peak when there are more goons in JIta than non goons there will be sub cfleets elsewhere.
March rabbit
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#38 - 2012-03-29 15:38:30 UTC
Jas Dor wrote:
...
That gives us 22,500 jumps.

Lets figure 10% of those are "high value targets" (I'd personally put the number at more like 20% but ok). That means an average of 94 high value jump ins an hour
...


how did you get from number of jumps to number of unique characters? You really think there is like 2250 unique freighters in game sitting around Jita and ready to warp each hour to Jita gate?
24 hours in a day gives us like 50k of freighters?

The Mittani: "the inappropriate drunked joke"

Sevastian Liao
DreamWeaver Inc.
#39 - 2012-03-29 15:40:41 UTC
Darronis Olachenko wrote:
I think it was a big mistake for them to reveal their plans to begin with. If they really wanted maximum effect they shouldn't have said a word, or perhaps even just hinted at something but kept the details tight lipped. Now the only people that will be left in Jita when the end of April rolls around will be those completely oblivious. While I'm sure even that number will be higher than I expect, most people will just shrug and move to Amarr or whatever and continue going about their business.


The completely oblivious make up a goodly percentage of the populace, sadly. If more people actually read the forums to stay informed we'd see less "I just got margin scammed how is that possible" threads.

If the Jita Burning goes through, I'll be taking bets on how many "How are they allowed to do that" threads are going to pop up. Lol

Jarnis McPieksu wrote:
They do not need to suicide gank that many ships. Only enough that people stop jumping into Jita due to too high risk of a pricy Freighter/hauler loss.

Word will spread quickly, Jita commerce will be severely impacted and at that point those few clueless idiots that still do jump in can be ganked with fairly small effort.

(This of course all assumes Goons do what they claim they'll do... but otherwise it is fairly easy to predict the outcome of the planned action)

As to what happens after that will be the interesting bit... how long Goons keep it up? How will the market react? Will manufacturers and raw material producers start selling stuff at next door system? What will CCP do when the carebears (predictably) being their whine concert over the ganks?


QFT. The numbers presented fail to take into account the largely predictable player reaction to a sustained lockdown, as has been mentioned.
EvilweaselSA
GoonCorp
Goonswarm Federation
#40 - 2012-03-29 15:54:31 UTC
oh no it might be expensive

i hope the 100b of tech i sold this morning will help