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New Dev Blog: The 2012 Alliance Panel at Fanfest

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Darth Gustav
Sith Interstellar Tech Harvesting
#141 - 2012-03-30 09:08:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Darth Gustav
Some issues I had raised in the other official thread about this joke:

Elsebeth Rhiannon wrote:
The EVE that CCP sells is a sandbox game where you can do anything. They by no means have ever, anywhere, sold a game where you can go on stage in their live event and use your limelight time to point and laugh at other players, let alone call them names and incite other players to harass them in game to drive them to suicide. They also do have rules in place about what is acceptable language (though it does seem they do not have the resources and/or interest to enforce those). That they let it go as far as actual reference to driving someone to death before they intervened is what should surprise people here - not that they did eventually do something.

A sandbox is for building whatever you want and playing whatever games you like. There is no fixed plot you have to use and you can use the toys provided the way you like. But if you start calling other kids names and throwing the sand in their eyes, a kindergarten teacher is going to come and pick you up and put you on the timeout bench, and no amount of kicking and screaming about how it was your sand will save you. The only thing left to do at that point is to grow up and realize that despite having the freedom to play you do not have the freedom to bully.
Darth Gustav wrote:
First of all, did you see the names of the pilots singing their respective national anthems to the glee and delight of every nerd in Reykjavík? Do you think CCP was laughing too? Because it sure looked like it. Or how about the slide which was vetted where an Eve player hinted at symptoms of mental instability and possible suicide? Do you think they let that go up on the screen because they want Eve to be Hello Kitty Online?

Were IPOL and the local police dispatched to this "victim's" home, as per CCP policy, when they became aware of his purported condition? Was anything done for nearly a week after this "reprehensible offense?"

Is it possible, however unlikely, that even in a state of drunken stupor Mittens was being allegorical? Is it remotely conceivable that he didn't genuinely want this person to die?

Did everybody in the presentation have their headsets on, laptops ready to blow this dude up and supposedly verify the IRL kill? Or were they at a location where this was unfeasible?

Did CCP, a tech-savvy firm with a historical penchant for cramming both of their feet in their mouth and going "nom nom nom" with regard to bad press think, even for a second, that broadcasting drunks for profit with no delay might not be a good idea? Did anybody at fanfest sign a waiver of their rights to free speech or even receive a verbal warning pertaining to the Q&A session and its potential consequences in-and-out-of game before the panel?

I just wonder if you can clear some of this up for we disenfranchised, since you obviously have a pretty firm grasp of what CCP has and has not done for the community that basically props up Iceland's entire economy.

He who trolls trolls best when he who is trolled trolls the troller. -Darth Gustav's Axiom
Miranda Fluffbunny
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#142 - 2012-03-30 10:21:52 UTC
I thought the punishment a bit harsh to be honest but I love the resulting drama and nerdrage.

Going to buy some plexes just to show my support of this glorious, drama filled game.

Wuv you CCP.
InnerDrive
State War Academy
Caldari State
#143 - 2012-03-30 10:28:48 UTC  |  Edited by: InnerDrive
Seriously guys , obviously mittens went to far. he admitted it and i fully agree with any sanctions taken. this is not in good spirit anymore.

We have never been allowed to try get someone to commit suicide.

Trying to harm someone in real life has allways been a bannable offense , its one the few things that we are not allowed to do in the sandbox type game eve is. and its unfortunate that it happens to be a CSM member that did it and got banned.

But afterall CSM members are also just players and they shoud still follow the same rules of respect for others.
OMGFRIGATES WARPOUT
Perkone
Caldari State
#144 - 2012-03-30 12:46:10 UTC
InnerDrive wrote:
But afterall CSM members are also just players and they shoud still follow the same rules of respect for others.


After recovering slightly at DNS Black being refered to as (and I paraphrase) "the sober one" I think this is an important part of the discussion. No matter the self induced importance that a majority of the CSM seem to promote themselves and their actions with, they are still just 1 player in a game and they should be treated accordingly.

If anyone would have climbed the stage and called for the harrasement of (who they felt was) a mentally unstable person with any notion of 'they might commit suicide" that person would have been the proud owner of at the very least a 30 day ban. Given the situation where the one person that did it was personally invited by CCP while media and financial backers of the company were in presence the result shouldn't be a suprise to anyone.

In all I believe that absolutly nothing will change. I believe that Mittens will successfully run and win the following CSM election and be the resurrected leader of that panel and things will be back to "normal" in 1 years time.
Lilliana Stelles
#145 - 2012-03-30 15:19:44 UTC
I support this decision. There was no clear way to respond to this, but I think CCP is doing the best that they can. Mittani apologized on his own accord, but the ban and rules changes are needed to show that not even CSM are immune to the terms of service.

Ultimately, CCP has been very generous by granting the CSM as much freedom as they have. It's entirely unnecessary and generous, and CCP has the right to remove any of that freedom. Ultimately, the game is their property; this isn't a player-run government.

This isn't an ideal solution, by any means, but it is the only solution I can see working in the long run. Most of us are adults on here, but within my alliance we have a member who's only 13. Very smart for a 13 year old, but still, we need to consider the example we set on Eve. It's nearly a public forum.

I'm sure that alliances can still find a way to give a humorous presentation without excessive alcohol and adult language. And I'm more than sure that goonswarm can survive without their CSM puppet for a month. (Funny how all these goons are yelling about democracy while they all voted for the same person)

Not a forum alt. 
Pallidum Treponema
Body Count Inc.
Mercenary Coalition
#146 - 2012-03-30 15:26:32 UTC
I'm of the opinion that the 10058 voters who were cheated by CCP in this blatant attempt at ruining the game should vote with their wallets!

10058 people quitting this horrible game would be a clear victory for the outraged voters!
Grumplestiltskin
Fisher-Price
#147 - 2012-03-30 15:52:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Grumplestiltskin
Pallidum Treponema wrote:
I'm of the opinion that the 10058 voters who were cheated by CCP in this blatant attempt at ruining the game should vote with their wallets!

10058 people quitting this horrible game would be a clear victory for the outraged voters!


I sincerly hope this is sarcasm....too many others seem to honestly think this is the right answer... =P
Bantara
Dolmite Cornerstone
#148 - 2012-03-30 16:00:20 UTC
Grumplestiltskin wrote:
Are you #*(@& kidding me?

Sir, I think you missed his sarcasm flag.
Nlex
Domini Canium
#149 - 2012-03-30 18:38:05 UTC
It's only appropriate to ban people for violating TOS. CCP is completely right.
Demon Azrakel
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#150 - 2012-03-30 22:45:49 UTC
Seriously, most of the player base had no issue with the event setup itself or the comments made. We were rather happy about the setup, and some of the presentations were rather good, including the controversial presentation in question.

Remember who you are supposed to keep happy?

Sony?

The Gaming Media?

Soccer Moms?

no...

Think Incarna?

Who was unhappy?

What happened when those people were unhappy?

Is that what you want CCP?

Did you learn your lesson?

(apparently not)
K1Vis
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#151 - 2012-03-31 02:32:27 UTC
He mixed RL and Eve. By telling people about the guys RL and then doing things in game to effect the guys RL he broke the rules. He left the Sandbox. In game leaders can act however they wish. But CSM members are a part of Eve outside NEw Eden and inside the sandbox also. They should act more professional than that. CCP has taken the CSM VERY seriously. Mitanni did not do the same. he seems to be a very intelligent person. I am sure he is aware that politicians are held accountable for there actions.
Bantara
Dolmite Cornerstone
#152 - 2012-03-31 05:48:45 UTC
Demon Azrakel wrote:
Seriously, most of the player base had no issue with the event setup itself or the comments made. We were rather happy about the setup, and some of the presentations were rather good, including the controversial presentation in question.

Remember who you are supposed to keep happy?(...)


While your character pic is freaking awesome, your logic fails. You are saying the same group of people who were upset at crap like Incarna will be the same people pleased with the current status of the Alliance panel and Fanfest in general. I personally know you do not have proof of that.
Javier McPoopbeard
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#153 - 2012-03-31 17:17:51 UTC
Quote:
All powerpoint slides for the presentation were run by a CCP employee to make sure no obvious nudity or sexually explicit content was present—but otherwise it is a very open forum—much more so than any other game company would dream of having.


Wasn't there a penis pictured and a photograph covered in semen in MB3's presentation?
Soldarius
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#154 - 2012-03-31 22:46:29 UTC
Nao Oikawasan wrote:


My vote, as well as those of 17% of those who bothered to participate, were simply tossed in the trash?

I'm not sure that even the American Democratic machine in Chicago has ever been responsible for nullifying that large a voting block.

I would like to apply my vote to another character. I'm suspect others may as well.


The Republican party is responsible for far worse. So don't even go there. All the votes were counted and Mittani won the chairperson's seat. The simple fact is that your leader failed you because drinking is more important to him than your votes or support.

Also, 17 percent? lol, we are The 99 Percent! 99>17

http://youtu.be/YVkUvmDQ3HY
Zulran Hans
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#155 - 2012-04-01 10:08:35 UTC
While it is important for CCP to think about the voters who are unhappy with the decision,
they also have to consider how this will affect the long-term image of EVE Online,
as well as the hundreds of thousands other subscribers.

The Alliance Panel was meant to represent us, the player community.
There we had among the best “athletes”who are very good in the game to share with the public why EVE is enjoyable.

Of course, they also indirectly gave an impression on how the best EVE gamers are like outside the virtual universe,
a glimpse of the culture of EVE community.

That’s why CCP should and have taken this extremely seriously.


His sincere public apology shows us that Alex is a good person,
and undoubtedly one of the great players we have in EVE.
The Mittani is a fascinating villain character that will be remembered for a very long time.

Even if we disagree that CCP has made the right call, they have made it.
Let's stop exchanging angers towards other players and the developers.

Let’s instead learn from this mistake, and suggest things that will make the Alliance Panel better next time

This is a wake-up call for all of us.
With the average player’s age of 27-28 years old, we are quite a mature group of adults.
Let's show that, as EVE players, while we are fun, we are also a respectable gaming community.
Silath Slyver Silverpine
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#156 - 2012-04-01 21:57:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Silath Slyver Silverpine
It's unfortunate, but I can see why CCP is taking this stance. And I can't blame them. The fact is that if they wish to be succesful they will have to bow to certain social standards and pressures. It sucks but in the end, they are a company and they want to make money. It's especially sad because I was recently telling my friend (Who plays WoW) how awesome EVE fanfest was.
"Dude, they have a drinking game quiz and pub crawls. I don't see blizzcon doing that."
It is my sincere hope that CCP tempers their reaction and doesn't go overboard. I understand that after the crapstorm Mittani's actions brought about they pretty much have to do something from a PR standpoint.
But please, try to limit it to age checks on the streams, a few disclaimers, and a 30 second delay for 'bleeping out' extreme comments.


Basically, a goon decided to be a complete arse and ruin things for everyone else. Again.

And when I say goon here I mean the pitiful pricks that are so desperate for attention they'd rather have everyone hate them than be unknown. The kind of people that can't develop a meaningful identity in real life so they have to resort to identifying themselves as 'trolls', who 'drink pubbie tears' so that they can feel special and part of a community, even if that community is shunned, resented, and hated.
Not necessarily every person affiliated with SA or goonswarm. The worst of the worst tend to ruin things for everyone.
Sephiroth CloneIIV
Brothers of Tyr
Goonswarm Federation
#157 - 2012-04-02 00:09:07 UTC
I don't like that a popularly elected chairman was cast down for a bad joke while he was drunk to appease outside media interests, and a hypocritical vocal minority of people who never liked goons in the first place.

but.....

It is just a 30 day ban, so not the end of the world for him as a part of eve. The mittani, will still be the mittani. Possibly he could run for CSM again, assuming he would want to, judging from his resignation as the chair might not be the case, and is content to primarily running a alliance and collation.

Game goes on, what happened, happened.
Avitus Caius
Doomheim
#158 - 2012-04-04 07:21:02 UTC
Goons what a bunch of babies. Oh lordy lordy what will we do if they boycott eve and take their bs else where oh lordy what will we do.
Andreus Ixiris
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#159 - 2012-04-06 00:38:47 UTC
I'm not asking this question to troll, I'm asking this question because I am genuinely interested in an honest answer.

Goons, tell me honestly. If this had happened to someone who wasn't Mittani - someone who wasn't a Goon at all, in fact - would any of you care as much as you do?

Andreus Ixiris > A Civire without a chin is barely a Civire at all.

Pieter Tuulinen > He'd be Civirely disadvantaged, Andreus.

Andreus Ixiris > ...

Andreus Ixiris > This is why we're at war.
Skullkandy Slag
Doomheim
#160 - 2012-04-06 01:38:07 UTC
So let me get this right. A bunch of you are outraged and unstably pissed because a dude was a complete d-bag and crossed a line so he got his hand slapped? Sandbox game doesn't discount all basic rules of treating other human beings with some measure of civilized behavior. How immature and socially stunted are you?