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New Dev Blog: The 2012 Alliance Panel at Fanfest

First post
Author
Courthouse
Perkone
Caldari State
#61 - 2012-03-29 01:39:21 UTC
Welcome to our new Sony overlords. May your stay be as long and successful as your run at Star Wars Galaxies was.
Michiko Kat Sterling
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#62 - 2012-03-29 01:42:17 UTC
Chokichi Ozuwara wrote:
This game is changing and will continue to change, the days of Fanfest being a bunch of drunks hamming it up was over the minute that CCP partnered with Sony and entered the mega corp world of entertainment.

It is sad to see so much Goonie whining here the last couple days. I thought tough guys and bad guys were made of stiffer stuff.


I would hate to think the Goons consider carebears as the only people capable of tears, but apparently I was mistaken. I for one would love to see a goon fleet massed against a high sec fleet of everyone who doesnt like them. Let it be decided on the field of battle just like the old days.

The time is over for forum posts i guess, time to duke it out in low sec.P
Andrea Griffin
#63 - 2012-03-29 01:46:36 UTC
I expect many of the events at FanFest to be loud, funny, informal, and contain some adult language from time to time, but the behavior at the Alliance Panel this year was pretty distasteful overall. It's difficult to show Eve to my friends and entice them to play when some of the largest alliances in Eve take to the stage and spend the whole time acting like immature prats.

This was my opinion before the whole Mitanni Incident, but what happened there was the final straw for me. I'm very happy to hear that CCP will be keeping a closer eye on things to keep them going out of control.

I'm not looking for the awkward, utterly sterile corporate atmosphere either; there's a lot of room in between and, really, if people could just tone down the language somewhat that would be a big improvement. Just a nudge in the opposite direction. A little more class.

It's a shame that the whole event this year is going to be remembered for a few seconds of drunken audio. Hopefully next year will be better.

Also, my Quafe shirt is awesome. : >
Crovan
Noir.
Shadow Cartel
#64 - 2012-03-29 02:06:57 UTC
In the immortal words of half a dozen shirtless devs, HTFU.
Desert Ice78
Gryphons of the Western Wind
#65 - 2012-03-29 02:28:41 UTC
Quote:
CCP in no way condones the harassment of players


So what game am I playing?? Let me get my hulk and head back to hi-sec and test this one....

I am a pod pilot: http://dl.eve-files.com/media/corp/DesertIce/POD.jpg

CCP Zulu: Came expecting a discussion about computer monitors, left confused.

Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor
#66 - 2012-03-29 02:43:56 UTC
Desert Ice78 wrote:
Quote:
CCP in no way condones the harassment of players


So what game am I playing?? Let me get my hulk and head back to hi-sec and test this one....


EVE Online is a harsh, cruel world. The people populating EVE Online are referred to as "capsuleers", "characters" or (in still-can't-recite-the-alphabet circles) as "toons". (pardon me while I go have a hot shower to wash that taint off my soul)

It is entirely possible to have a virtual world where violence and treachery are the expected behaviour between characters, while still enforcing standards of behaviour between players in the real world. If you were playing Mortal Kombat, your character is expected to smash the snot out of the opponent. If you were to smash the snot out of the other player, you'd be going to court facing assault charges.

While not necessarily a crime in most jurisdictions, recommending a course of action in the virtual world with the intent of achieving some negative outcome in the real world is at the very least morally shady.

Clear as mud?
Bojan Z
Perkone
Caldari State
#67 - 2012-03-29 02:49:13 UTC
I'm glad I was at this year Fanfest.
I'm not likely to be at the next one.
ergherhdfgh
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#68 - 2012-03-29 02:49:32 UTC
CCP Navigator wrote:
CCP in no way condones the harassment of players,


You have got to be kidding me. That line had to be a joke. CCP most certainly does condone this type of behavior. It is encouraged and lauded and bragged about and used as a point of advertisement. You push it all over the internet that Eve is the place where people are allowed to treat others as poorly as possible. The worse you treat others the better and the more press time you give it.

Further if anyone complains about the culture that CCP has purposefully and intentionally created of people mistreating others they are referred to the song written and preformed by Perma Band, and band consisting purely of CCP Devs and employees, in which they are told in no uncertain terms to " Harden The **** Up ".

You condone this behavior, You encourage it, You foster it, You cultivate it. I suspect the only reason you choose to deny it here and now is because someone in your legal department got a hold of you and told you that if this guy does kill himself you guys could be held liable for it. This dev blog is a disclaimer to try and disassociate CCP from any accountability for it's actions.

As far as the law is concerned this may server to insulate you from any financial punishment but in the world of action and consequence what happened on that Alliance panel is a direct result of the environment that you, CCP, have willfully and intentionally created, fostered and nurtured. You may be able to fool the law of the land but you can't fool the law of action and consequence.

Want to talk? Join Cara's channel in game: House Forelli

Alx Warlord
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#69 - 2012-03-29 03:06:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Alx Warlord
This

Quote:
It is entirely possible to have a virtual world where violence and treachery are the expected behaviour between characters, while still enforcing standards of behaviour between players in the real world. If you were playing Mortal Kombat, your character is expected to smash the snot out of the opponent. If you were to smash the snot out of the other player, you'd be going to court facing assault charges.



Don't blame CCP, blame The mittani, he is the one that forgot about the EULA! Shame on him, becouse he wasted all the votes of people that trusted in him!

Eve is serious business! But this is also a game! No one plays it to be greefed! And CCP should Really enforce this! People should have fun playing it! not being told to suicide! Also CCP should take what is said and reported in the forum more seriously!

Also I really hope that CCP fix other greefing mechanisms in game! Enough of AFK cloakers!
Atrum Veneficus
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#70 - 2012-03-29 03:06:21 UTC
Here is the official Goonswarm Federation response to CCP "growing up" and throwing The Mittani under the bus.

http://i.imgur.com/J42oU.gif

Enjoy!
ergherhdfgh
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#71 - 2012-03-29 03:07:50 UTC
Mara Rinn wrote:


It is entirely possible to have a virtual world where violence and treachery are the expected behaviour between characters, while still enforcing standards of behaviour between players in the real world. If you were playing Mortal Kombat, your character is expected to smash the snot out of the opponent. If you were to smash the snot out of the other player, you'd be going to court facing assault charges.

While not necessarily a crime in most jurisdictions, recommending a course of action in the virtual world with the intent of achieving some negative outcome in the real world is at the very least morally shady.

Clear as mud?

This is far from the first time that mitani himself not to mention the goons as a whole or the player base in general have harassed someone with the stated intent of causing emotional harm to the real person behind the toon . The only difference that I see in this particular situation is that mittens was drunk enough to say it how it is. A sober person would have know not to actually say what mitani said but the intent and actions other than that have been replicated countless times in Eve and openly supported by CCP.

Mitani did not attack the guy in the real world. Mitani did not give out the guys real name nor any other personal information. Mitani did not ask anyone to harass the man in anyway in the real world. He gave out the guy's character name and told people to harass the character in game, with the hopes of causing the actual human behind the character emotional harm, grief and shame to name a couple. It's called griefing and it happens in eve all the time and is openly encouraged by CCP. The only difference here is that mitani openly stated if someone wanted to push the guy to kill himself then do so. Had Mitani instead invited people to grief this guy until he sank into a depression which lead to alcoholism or caused him to kick and abuse the neighbors' dog or something short of suicide we would not be reading an apology from Mitani or CCP.

Want to talk? Join Cara's channel in game: House Forelli

Skyreth
Victoria Per Conquestum
#72 - 2012-03-29 03:25:35 UTC
Goon tears best tears. If people can't tell what sort of behavior is acceptable, their loss.

If Mitt had not told people to go and abuse that person, and had not given out the name...he'd have gotten away rather unaffected. But telling people on a live feed to find this person and abuse them is way beyond EVEs usual "tough love" play style.

As for if this were a real government official;
If a real government official had told people on television to contact someone and abuse them to make them kill themselves...Yeah, they'd get the boot. Or at least, they would in any country with a sense of self respect and decency.

This was also an action against the EULA on a far more public and open venue than in-game. A venue anyone with any intelligence would have figured would not be appropriate for such remarks. But then...he does represent Goonswarm...so yeah...

That being said, I'll stand by the guy that was targeted by Mitt. No one deserves that sort of thing.
Alx Warlord
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#73 - 2012-03-29 03:26:49 UTC
ergherhdfgh wrote:
Mara Rinn wrote:


It is entirely possible to have a virtual world where violence and treachery are the expected behaviour between characters, while still enforcing standards of behaviour between players in the real world. If you were playing Mortal Kombat, your character is expected to smash the snot out of the opponent. If you were to smash the snot out of the other player, you'd be going to court facing assault charges.

While not necessarily a crime in most jurisdictions, recommending a course of action in the virtual world with the intent of achieving some negative outcome in the real world is at the very least morally shady.

Clear as mud?

This is far from the first time that mitani himself not to mention the goons as a whole or the player base in general have harassed someone with the stated intent of causing emotional harm to the real person behind the toon . The only difference that I see in this particular situation is that mittens was drunk enough to say it how it is. A sober person would have know not to actually say what mitani said but the intent and actions other than that have been replicated countless times in Eve and openly supported by CCP.

Mitani did not attack the guy in the real world. Mitani did not give out the guys real name nor any other personal information. Mitani did not ask anyone to harass the man in anyway in the real world. He gave out the guy's character name and told people to harass the character in game, with the hopes of causing the actual human behind the character emotional harm, grief and shame to name a couple. It's called griefing and it happens in eve all the time and is openly encouraged by CCP. The only difference here is that mitani openly stated if someone wanted to push the guy to kill himself then do so. Had Mitani instead invited people to grief this guy until he sank into a depression which lead to alcoholism or caused him to kick and abuse the neighbors' dog or something short of suicide we would not be reading an apology from Mitani or CCP.


And do you realy think that if i kill someone whille drunk I can blame the alchool?

He was suposed to be an example....

Also he was not arrested... he just got banned and removed from the CSM... this is as virtual as his offense...
Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor
#74 - 2012-03-29 03:33:16 UTC
ergherhdfgh wrote:
This is far from the first time that mitani himself not to mention the goons as a whole or the player base in general have harassed someone with the stated intent of causing emotional harm to the real person behind the toon.


[citation needed]

The ice interdiction, hulkageddon, etc: all brilliant strategies to gain commercial advantage within the game. In game activities impacting in game activities.

Can you provide some references to situations where players engaged in particular campaigns with the intent of causing emotional harm to the real person behind the character?
Nirnaeth Ornoediad
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#75 - 2012-03-29 04:04:19 UTC
Alx Warlord wrote:
This

Quote:
It is entirely possible to have a virtual world where violence and treachery are the expected behaviour between characters, while still enforcing standards of behaviour between players in the real world. If you were playing Mortal Kombat, your character is expected to smash the snot out of the opponent. If you were to smash the snot out of the other player, you'd be going to court facing assault charges.



Don't blame CCP, blame The mittani, he is the one that forgot about the EULA! Shame on him, becouse he wasted all the votes of people that trusted in him!

Eve is serious business! But this is also a game! No one plays it to be greefed! And CCP should Really enforce this! People should have fun playing it! not being told to suicide! Also CCP should take what is said and reported in the forum more seriously!

Also I really hope that CCP fix other greefing mechanisms in game! Enough of AFK cloakers!


EULA = End User License Agreement
A document describing users rights and obligations with respect to a piece of software.

Last time I checked, it doesn't apply to marketing events, much less to non-employees at a marketing event.

Fix POSes.  Every player should want one (even if all players can't have one).

Nirnaeth Ornoediad
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#76 - 2012-03-29 04:05:15 UTC
Skyreth wrote:
Goon tears best tears. If people can't tell what sort of behavior is acceptable, their loss.

If Mitt had not told people to go and abuse that person, and had not given out the name...he'd have gotten away rather unaffected. But telling people on a live feed to find this person and abuse them is way beyond EVEs usual "tough love" play style.

As for if this were a real government official;
If a real government official had told people on television to contact someone and abuse them to make them kill themselves...Yeah, they'd get the boot. Or at least, they would in any country with a sense of self respect and decency.

This was also an action against the EULA on a far more public and open venue than in-game. A venue anyone with any intelligence would have figured would not be appropriate for such remarks. But then...he does represent Goonswarm...so yeah...

That being said, I'll stand by the guy that was targeted by Mitt. No one deserves that sort of thing.


The CSM is not a government entity. It is a customer advocacy group, or at best a panel of customers.

Fix POSes.  Every player should want one (even if all players can't have one).

IsTheOpOver
#77 - 2012-03-29 04:25:27 UTC
"CCP finds this behavior morally reprehensible."

Good show CCP.

From the sound of Alex in his State of the Goonion he was pretty much ok with everything CCP did up until this blog.

April 28th eh? Alrighty then!
Desert Ice78
Gryphons of the Western Wind
#78 - 2012-03-29 04:28:43 UTC
Mara Rinn wrote:
Desert Ice78 wrote:
Quote:
CCP in no way condones the harassment of players


So what game am I playing?? Let me get my hulk and head back to hi-sec and test this one....


EVE Online is a harsh, cruel world. The people populating EVE Online are referred to as "capsuleers", "characters" or (in still-can't-recite-the-alphabet circles) as "toons". (pardon me while I go have a hot shower to wash that taint off my soul)

It is entirely possible to have a virtual world where violence and treachery are the expected behaviour between characters, while still enforcing standards of behaviour between players in the real world. If you were playing Mortal Kombat, your character is expected to smash the snot out of the opponent. If you were to smash the snot out of the other player, you'd be going to court facing assault charges.

While not necessarily a crime in most jurisdictions, recommending a course of action in the virtual world with the intent of achieving some negative outcome in the real world is at the very least morally shady.

Clear as mud?


Indeed it is. I'm going to get a Mack, fit it with a civilian shield booster, sit in a Gallente ice belt and decry to all and sundry in local that I am mentaly unstable.....

I am a pod pilot: http://dl.eve-files.com/media/corp/DesertIce/POD.jpg

CCP Zulu: Came expecting a discussion about computer monitors, left confused.

Gevlin
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#79 - 2012-03-29 04:32:17 UTC
Please include the following Administrated Controls to be in place:

1. Require people on the panel to be sober.
2. Insure that any reference to an individual names are removed from any slide show.
3. Put player created (IE CSM Panel, Alliance Panel, open mike night) content to be televised delayed at the end of the presentations ( like the security presentation was completed. )

This is your fan fest please keep it under control. Apparently you can't rely on the eve community and the media to react responsibly.

Someday I will have the time to play. For now it is mining afk in High sec. In Cheap ships

Yakumo Smith
No End To Infinity
#80 - 2012-03-29 04:50:09 UTC
CCP sets the tone of Fanfest with it's events.

You can't have drunken quizes on one hand and demands for sobriety and people to "grow up" on the other.