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New Dev Blog: Alliance Panel at Fanfest 2012: The Conclusion

First post First post
Author
Jade Constantine
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
#941 - 2012-03-29 14:37:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Jade Constantine
1Of9 wrote:
1Of9 wrote:
1Of9 wrote:
Thank you ccp.

You did the right thing, altho the CSM rules state that he cannot run for CSM again.

Plz explain why you are allowing him to run again in the future.


to pinpoint my claim:

http://community.eveonline.com/download/devblog/CSM.pdf

on page 20 it says, and i quote:

Quote:


CSM representative conduct

any behavior or actions considered being a material breach of the eula or tos
by a Csm representative is grounds for immediate dismissal and permanent
exclusion from all pending and future participation in the council. there are no
exceptions,
regardless of the infraction. representatives are not only expected to
uphold the social contract that all society members are held accountable to, but
should also set a behavior standard for everyone else to follow.




In light of this, ccp please explain why he will be able to run for CSM in the future.


Bump


He like any other player will be allowed to "apply" to run for CSM. But the CSM admin team will look at his history of warnings and past behaviour before saying yes or no. Knowing what we do of the circumstances of the ban I think we can probably imagine how that application will end up.

(I'd expect its highly unlikely anyone from CCP will answer this question btw because it will stretch too closely to discussing disciplinary proceedures about another player)

The True Knowledge is that nothing matters that does not matter to you, might does make right and power makes freedom

Crasniya
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#942 - 2012-03-29 14:41:51 UTC
I think Alex's apology was a class act, I really respect him for his actions once he saw the recording. People do stupid stuff when drunk, fact. One of the things very few people can do, is honestly and humbly apologize. I respect it a lot.

That being said, folks need to realize, that once this hit the major gaming websites, it was squarely in CCP PR's hands to prevent a further PR nightmare. Mittani's removal from the CSM had to be done, unfortunately. It would've made the game look very bad if they didn't do that. The month long ban is probably equivalent to a slap on the wrist, which he probably deserves. Players have gotten permanent bans for less, so it was probably somewhat generous.

I will still hail Space King Mittens, and look forward to his explosive return to the game a month from now.

Soraya Xel - Council of Planetary Management 1 - soraya@biomassed.net

Doc Severide
Doomheim
#943 - 2012-03-29 14:43:46 UTC
Jade Constantine wrote:
And of course then we had the christmas minutes which were another fiasco. Released late and indistinct, with the CSM being refered to as "the csm" (not individual reps) and being on record as anonymously saying some very stupid things about game development and priority.

Wormholes -what are they?
FW -is for noobs isn't it?
Hisec -lol carebears?


And the CSM wants us to think they represend ALL the players of EVE?

Not likely all they care about is likeminded individuals, not the 2 week old new player looking for adventure...
Snot Shot
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#944 - 2012-03-29 14:44:51 UTC  |  Edited by: CCP Phantom
You planned to say what you said, you defended what you said, and continue to believe that you did nothing wrong……..but……… you realized the battle was being lost, so you went into full on damage control mode to try and save yourself. Throwing around apologies, isk, resignations, and grand speeches which are all just self-serving acts as you frantically try to underpin your collapsing “space spy” internet fame….Roll

Then you realize that, if not redirected quickly, the Goonie mob will turn on you for ******* things up for them. Quick…..to the State of the Goonie! = ”We are going to take Tenal once and for all from the evil Raiden!!!!”………/Sends all the pissed off CFC pilots out to shoot structures again to keep their minds off your colossal **** up……….Blink

You will survive this only because Goonies won't let you fail since that would make them look bad. In the mean time this beats anything goonies have/will ever do to others or to themselves……Cool…….I will be in Jita as well to celebrate the return of “The Martini”…..Lol
.

CSM representative conduct wrote:


any behavior or actions considered being a material breach of the eula or tos
by a Csm representative is grounds for immediate dismissal and permanent
exclusion from all pending and future participation in the council. there are no
exceptions, regardless of the infraction. representatives are not only expected to
uphold the social contract that all society members are held accountable to, but
should also set a behavior standard for everyone else to follow.

Twitter = @Snot_Shot  - “If you don't stand for something, you'll fall for anything"

evesnotshot.blogspot.com

War Kitten
Panda McLegion
#945 - 2012-03-29 14:48:14 UTC
Razin wrote:
I understand why CCP had to do this; however it is always sad to see the idiots victorious over common sense and objectivity.

Whatever...


I think you missed the mark here a bit.

Objectivity is why he was banned and removed, per the rules.

Subjectivity would've been making an exception to the rules because of who he was or any extenuating circumstances.

I don't judge people by their race, religion, color, size, age, gender, or ethnicity. I judge them by their grammar, spelling, syntax, punctuation, clarity of expression, and logical consistency.

dr vonVettet
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#946 - 2012-03-29 14:48:45 UTC
This action is so cowardly and hypocritical that I have for the first time in my many years of EVE:ing lost faith in CCP. I hope they get this in order.

I did watch the stream of the alliance panel. Mittanis presentation was distasteful and boring. I also watched the stream where the new marketing driver lauded and applauded the rough gaming that is the basis of the Mittani persona behaviour. And to make things worse, CCP states that they had inspected and approved of the presentation slides in advance.
And quoting the EULA/TOS? Come on. Just by harvesting obscenities from the CCP hosted forums a significant portion of the playerbase are breaking the EULA/TOS on a regular basis.

Today I regretfully unsubscribed EVE.
1Of9
A Blessed Bean
Pandemic Horde
#947 - 2012-03-29 14:52:08 UTC  |  Edited by: 1Of9
Jade Constantine wrote:
1Of9 wrote:
1Of9 wrote:
1Of9 wrote:
Thank you ccp.

You did the right thing, altho the CSM rules state that he cannot run for CSM again.

Plz explain why you are allowing him to run again in the future.


to pinpoint my claim:

http://community.eveonline.com/download/devblog/CSM.pdf

on page 20 it says, and i quote:

Quote:


CSM representative conduct

any behavior or actions considered being a material breach of the eula or tos
by a Csm representative is grounds for immediate dismissal and permanent
exclusion from all pending and future participation in the council. there are no
exceptions,
regardless of the infraction. representatives are not only expected to
uphold the social contract that all society members are held accountable to, but
should also set a behavior standard for everyone else to follow.




In light of this, ccp please explain why he will be able to run for CSM in the future.


Bump


He like any other player will be allowed to "apply" to run for CSM. But the CSM admin team will look at his history of warnings and past behaviour before saying yes or no. Knowing what we do of the circumstances of the ban I think we can probably imagine how that application will end up.

(I'd expect its highly unlikely anyone from CCP will answer this question btw because it will stretch too closely to discussing disciplinary procedures about another player)


Ya i know that's the most probable route of action for ccp .. but .. the CSM rules state NO EXCEPTIONS.
He must NOT be allowed into the CSM again, as per rules.

Otherwise, ccp is opening a very very dangerous door.
a) goon special treatment theory's are proven right
b) mittanus claim on his recent ceo update where he claims and i quote: "One could additionally argue that I’ve spent so much time in Iceland this year that I’ve become co-opted by CCP; I have too many friends who work at the company and I don’t want to **** them over " (source)
c) CCP wont be able to permaban anyone from CSM in the future, since a new precedent is set.

Once again, i am waiting for some official answer on the matter, altho i understand it's not a easy subject to reply to, must be answered, otherwise CSM <-> CCP <-> GOONS relationship is not as transparent as CCP claim and needs further investigation, at the possible cost of CSM complete collapse, not to mention CCP/EVE itself.
Rhaile Vhindiscar
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#948 - 2012-03-29 14:55:47 UTC
Snot Shot wrote:
Is this the thread where karma put its foot so far up The Martinis ass that his nose looks like a Timberland work boot now?

I have been laughing for days over this and it couldn’t be more poetic. After years of twisting every word said by anyone he disliked so as to ruin their reputation and drive them out of the game, The Martini himself drank his own poison………Oops……

You planned to say what you said, you defended what you said, and continue to believe that you did nothing wrong……..but……… you realized the battle was being lost, so you went into full on damage control mode to try and save yourself. Throwing around apologies, isk, resignations, and grand speeches which are all just self-serving acts as you frantically try to underpin your collapsing “space spy” internet fame….Roll

Then you realize that, if not redirected quickly, the Goonie mob will turn on you for ******* things up for them. Quick…..to the State of the Goonie! = ”We are going to take Tenal once and for all from the evil Raiden!!!!”………/Sends all the pissed off CFC pilots out to shoot structures again to keep their minds off your colossal **** up……….Blink

You will survive this only because Goonies won't let you fail since that would make them look bad. In the mean time this beats anything goonies have/will ever do to others or to themselves……Cool…….I will be in Jita as well to celebrate the return of “The Martini”…..Lol
.

CSM representative conduct wrote:


any behavior or actions considered being a material breach of the eula or tos
by a Csm representative is grounds for immediate dismissal and permanent
exclusion from all pending and future participation in the council. there are no
exceptions, regardless of the infraction. representatives are not only expected to
uphold the social contract that all society members are held accountable to, but
should also set a behavior standard for everyone else to follow.




Now THIS is a angry man. Show us where the bad chairman touched you?
Lt Pizi
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#949 - 2012-03-29 14:59:31 UTC
former chairman

Goon Tears are best tears, because they're 25% alcohol by volume!

Snot Shot
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#950 - 2012-03-29 15:20:24 UTC
Rhaile Vhindiscar wrote:
Now THIS is a angry man. Show us where the bad chairman touched you?

You should know that when someone receives this response from a Goonie its confirmation that the persons post was a “wrecking shot”…….Blink
Carry on being ~mad~……Big smile
.

Twitter = @Snot_Shot  - “If you don't stand for something, you'll fall for anything"

evesnotshot.blogspot.com

Shiana Soltek
State War Academy
Caldari State
#951 - 2012-03-29 15:45:09 UTC
What I find interesting is they are all whinning and crying about disenfranchisement. Apparently these players do not know, or do not care about the actual definition of the term. Their votes were not less effective, they were not blocked. Their votes were counted, served their purpose, and successfully elected their chosen delegate to office.

What happened was AFTER the votes were counted, and AFTER the delegate became the official Chairman to be sworn in once CSM 7 started. The delegate himself, through his OWN actions, and by his own admission, stepped down from the position of CSM 7 chairman/member. This is no different than a US elected president stepping down prior to being sworn into office for actions he committed. The votes were counted, the person was successfully elected.

Your votes were not made less effective, you were not blocked from being able to vote. The person you voted for committed immoral, unethical, and via violation of the TOS and EULA illegal actions, that resulted in his account being banned, and after some personal reflection, resigned from his elected position. Under a normal democratic society, the spot would be filled by the Vice President, or in this case, the person with the next highest amount of votes, and every position from there down filled by the person below it, and the final spot filled by the person with the highest number of votes that did not make the original CSM 7 panel.

Instead of complaining about and trying to cry "disenfranchisement", how about you condemn the person who failed to maintain a professional decorum and failed to represent his constituents in a moral, ethical, and professional manner.
Soldarius
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#952 - 2012-03-29 15:48:45 UTC
Mittani has shown his lack of personal character and irresponsibility as a representative and chair of the player base. I find CCPs actions on this issue appropriate.

Simply put, 10058 accts voted wrong.

http://youtu.be/YVkUvmDQ3HY

Droodid
Antec Enterprises
#953 - 2012-03-29 15:59:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Droodid
Just goes to show if enough people ***** and whine about something utterly unimportant then the result is a load of predictable bollocks. I can't believe he's resigned, as one of the 10k people that voted for him I want that decision reversed.

It's Fanfest, it's a party. If you want to "serious business" up the party at the top of the world that I come to once a year, then I'll stop ******* coming.

Well played CCP, and well played you bunch of whining cunts.
Silath Slyver Silverpine
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#954 - 2012-03-29 16:02:29 UTC
Shiana Soltek wrote:
What I find interesting is they are all whinning and crying about disenfranchisement. Apparently these players do not know, or do not care about the actual definition of the term. Their votes were not less effective, they were not blocked. Their votes were counted, served their purpose, and successfully elected their chosen delegate to office.

What happened was AFTER the votes were counted, and AFTER the delegate became the official Chairman to be sworn in once CSM 7 started. The delegate himself, through his OWN actions, and by his own admission, stepped down from the position of CSM 7 chairman/member. This is no different than a US elected president stepping down prior to being sworn into office for actions he committed. The votes were counted, the person was successfully elected.

Your votes were not made less effective, you were not blocked from being able to vote. The person you voted for committed immoral, unethical, and via violation of the TOS and EULA illegal actions, that resulted in his account being banned, and after some personal reflection, resigned from his elected position. Under a normal democratic society, the spot would be filled by the Vice President, or in this case, the person with the next highest amount of votes, and every position from there down filled by the person below it, and the final spot filled by the person with the highest number of votes that did not make the original CSM 7 panel.

Instead of complaining about and trying to cry "disenfranchisement", how about you condemn the person who failed to maintain a professional decorum and failed to represent his constituents in a moral, ethical, and professional manner.


This. A thousand times, this. I applaud you for a reasonable and objective post.

Goons, CCP did not 'discount' your votes, nor did it 'disenfranchise' you. Mittani did.

But to accept that, you would have to sacrifice your little Jesus on the altar of self responsibility. Gods forbid your glorious leader be held accountable for his actions.
Kosh Seere
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#955 - 2012-03-29 16:04:37 UTC
Jade Constantine wrote:
Della Monk wrote:
Jade Constantine wrote:
Della Monk wrote:
Jade Constantine wrote:
The CSM reached a wrong decision. Alex Gianturco's actions were indefensible really and rather than manning up and telling him he had to go they tried to fool themselves about the scope of the damage done by Alex's drunken antics at Fanfest.


Then CCP should have told them this?


Well by disregarding their collective advise haven't they just done this?


I said told as in civilly, like they respected their opinion as elected representatives.
Not by tossing out a decision they must have given some sort of approval to without warning.


Well seeing as the CSM members posted seconds after this thread went live either they knew it was coming or they just got very lucky indeed. My money is they were told what the decision was in advance.


OMG, a conspiracy.

Skill yourself!

Richard Desturned
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#956 - 2012-03-29 16:04:50 UTC
~goonhate~ trumps fairness

npc alts have no opinions worth consideration

Pyrus Octavius
Flat Earth Believers
#957 - 2012-03-29 16:09:47 UTC
Seleene wrote:
This was an unexpected development and we are now working toward resolving both the issue of Mitten's 10k voters and figuring out the process for CSM 7 Chair. Straight



You mean 10k character votes right? Because the way I understand this works, that each account has 3 character slots, so technically 1 person, can vote 3 times. So in reality, 10k individual people are not disenfranchised.

Also, didn't the votes take place prior to said actions taken by Mittens? I am curious to know how many votes he would have lost had he done this prior to the conclusion of the CSM7 vote. I think this should be taken into account as well.

A person in all aspects of life should be held accountable for their action's and inaction's. There is no difference in this situation, than if someone did this to someone they go to school with or work with. The person known as The Mittani is no different than you or I. Therefore, Mittens shouldn't be given special treatment for breaking the rules and inciting such terrible things. He had a choice in his words. He is an educated man, a smart man who prides on his abilities to communicate. There is a lesson in this for him, and I am sure he will grow and become a stronger leader because of it. Whether you like his game play or not doesn't matter. This is a human matter, not a gaming matter, and although it is a fine line, human matters are more important, and should be respected. I believe this is what CCP is doing. This is what I believe Mittens is doing in making reparations and stepping down. There is always next year, and he has plenty of time to plan and strategise his next campaign. I wish him luck.

Droodid
Antec Enterprises
#958 - 2012-03-29 16:11:10 UTC
Pyrus Octavius wrote:
Seleene wrote:
This was an unexpected development and we are now working toward resolving both the issue of Mitten's 10k voters and figuring out the process for CSM 7 Chair. Straight



You mean 10k character votes right? Because the way I understand this works, that each account has 3 character slots, so technically 1 person, can vote 3 times. So in reality, 10k individual people are not disenfranchised.




It's 1 vote per account.
Gideon Tyler
R I 0 T
R I O T
#959 - 2012-03-29 16:24:38 UTC
CCP did not disenfranchise anyone. The Mittani disenfranchised himself ,and to an extent all who voted for him, with his ill-advised comments and behavior in a very public forum.

Like I said before, do not blame CCP, blame the Mittani. No one asked him to act the fool, it simply came natural to him and he paid the price. One might consider his conduct and apparent lack of maturity before voting for him again, assuming he is even allowed to run.

Kosh Seere
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#960 - 2012-03-29 16:24:41 UTC
Jade Constantine wrote:

Yeah it was made partially in response to the developer corruption scandal that involved T20 and Band of Brothers alliance and make sure the players had oversight to ensure that could never happen again.

The irony is we almost had a situation where Mittani was boasting of being in control of developers and influence within CCP and replaying this corrupt old scenario again. Had Mittani not been appropriately punished over his behaviour at Fanfest many many players and many external media sites would have considered he was being given unfair treatment that other players could not expect.


I'm so happy you see the world with such nice conspiracy eyes. Ever played with the possibility that Mittens was trolling when he was saying he controlled the devs?

I think you should quit eve and go outside.

Skill yourself!