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EVE New Citizens Q&A

 
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New Player PvP Help

Author
Tye Cullen
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#1 - 2012-03-27 19:53:32 UTC
So I just purchased this game 2 days ago, and I am really enjoying it so far. I have the Cormorant right now, but I prefer my smaller, and faster frigate. I would like to get into some small scale pvp with my friends who are starting with me. How viable are frigates in small scale pvp? I don't really have a clue how a frigate stands up to bigger ships. Also, What weapons are good to equip to a frigate? I think the Merlin is the best bet for a Caldari Frigate, so I will probably use that until i can get to t2.
Thanks for helping out a noob Lol
Kahega Amielden
Rifterlings
#2 - 2012-03-27 20:27:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Kahega Amielden
Frigates are great for small scale PVP primarily because of their low cost (you can lose tons of them and not care) and high agility (you can avoid fights from larger and scarier gangs). Petrus' (who will be responding shortly) and my corp specialize in frigate combat for this reason.


In general, frigates will lose direct 'fair' fights with larger classes of ships. This is because larger ships will often fit modules which fight the size/speed advantage of frigates. A cruiser with a stasis webifier, warp scrambler, and energy neuts will leave you moving slowly and without any capacitor energy to do anything. Against unprepared targets, or in groups, though, they become extremely effective.

Quote:
I think the Merlin is the best bet for a Caldari Frigate, so I will probably use that until i can get to t2.
Thanks for helping out a noob


Caldari have two basic ship lineups - missileboats and gunboats. The Merlin is decidedly a gunboat (note the ship bonuses; the vast majority of its damage will be coming from its guns). The other line is represented by the kestrel, which has a bunch of launchers. The type of weapons you want to fit almost always depends on the bonuses the ship gets.

You'll note that the Merlin gets bonuses to small hybrid turrets - so, railguns and blasters. If you don't put railguns and blasters on a merlin, you better have a damn good reason. These reasons exist for some ships, but in general follow the bonuses. Frigates will be using small guns/launchers, cruisers will be using medium guns/launchers, and battleships will use large guns/launchers.

The Merlin has the distinction of being probably the tankiest t1 frigate, and by a healthy margin. A good Merlin fit can reach upwards of 10,000 effective hitpoints (hitpoints modified by resistances), whereas other t1 frigates are lucky to hit 4,000. It's a bit slow, though. The t2 version of the Merlin is the Harpy, which happens to be my favorite ship in the game. It continues this line, being among the tankiest of all frigates.
Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings
#3 - 2012-03-27 20:32:54 UTC
Welcome to Eve!

Like every class of ship, frigates are viable for PvP. In fact, my corporation (Rifterlings) is dedicated to mainly frigate-sized PvP.

Frigates are popular for PvP for a few reasons. First (and somewhat foremost) is price. You can afford to lose frigates all day every day and not care about its impact on your wallet very much. For comparison, a T1-fit frigate is around 1 million ISK, and a T2-fit frigate is around 8 million ISK. For the same sort of fittings, cruisers are 15-30 mil, battlecruisers are 50-80 mil, and battleships are usually over 100 mil. For the price of one battlecruiser, you can fly tens of frigates. It is for this reason I actually recommend sticking to frigates in PvP until you get a grip on how combat works.

A second reason is speed, mobility, and general nimbleness. Frigates can bust through gate camps much more easily than bigger ships, they can catch things or run away much more easily, and probably most importantly, they can get under the guns of many bigger ships (by being too fast / too close to hit). Usually a solo frigate cannot take a bigger ship alone (though I have seen exceptions) but in a group it is certainly feasible.

Kahega above actually responded with plenty of great details about the Merlin (and Caldari ships in general), so listen to him.

Lastly, you should be aware of the resources available to you. There are plenty of players available to help, and I highly recommend joining a newbie-friendly corp where the veterans don't mind showing you the ropes. Trying to learn everything solo is a really painful way to learn. There are also lots of websites, wikis, blogs, etc. with useful advice and guides. I myself author a blog about frigate PVP.

There are loads more things you should know, but a forum post is too small a place to put them. So... good luck in finding them, or contact me in game (late USTZ) to chat!

Accidentally The Whole Frigate - For-newbies blog (currently on pause)

Tye Cullen
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#4 - 2012-03-27 20:50:25 UTC
I appreciate the responses, thank you both. I saw some posts about RvB, and I think I am going to check them out so I can learn the basics in PvP. One of my friends told me that missiles aren't used in PvP that often and are generally worse than other weapons... Is this true? Pulse Lasers seem to appeal to me, but that means I should train Ammar frigates right?
Degnar Oskold
Moira.
#5 - 2012-03-27 21:03:06 UTC
Tye Cullen wrote:
One of my friends told me that missiles aren't used in PvP that often and are generally worse than other weapons...


Your friend is either a fool or is a EFT (Eve fitting tool) warrior - more or less the same thing .

Missiles do less DPS on paper (if you look at the stats alone), but as long as you are in range they NEVER miss, whereas guns can miss their targets or get glancing blows.

In a frigate, you will be using one of 2 types of missiles.

1) "Standard Missiles", which are long-range, low damage
2) "Rockets" which are short range, higher damage.

You should never mix the two. While it may sound tempting to have some short-ranged and some long range weapons to fight at all ranges, you will find that you suck against long range opponents and suck against short ranged ones.

In a Merlin, if you pack blasters on your gun mounts, you should complement them with rockets, so that your guns and launchers are close ranged. If you go with Railguns, then put on standard launchers.

In EVE, long ranged ships generally do low damage, and short ranged ships do high damage. Short ranged ships facerap long ranged ones if they catch up to them, which is why long ranged ships generally fit for speed as their main form of protection.
Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings
#6 - 2012-03-27 21:18:47 UTC
Tye Cullen wrote:
Pulse Lasers seem to appeal to me, but that means I should train Ammar frigates right?


Lasers have two types: pulse and beam. Pulse lasers are the short range (and high damage) variant, while beam lasers are the long range (and lower damage) variant. They are typically only ever fit on Amarr ships because they have a very high capacitor draw to compensate for not using ammo, and Amarr ships often get bonuses to reduce the capacitor usage of lasers.

Pulse lasers are the longest range of the short ranged turrets (autocannons and blasters being the other two), but they have poor tracking so tend to miss at absolute point-blank.

Beam lasers are medium-range among long range turrets (artillery and railguns being the other two). Beam lasers are the highest DPS (damage per second) long range weapon, but they have a fast fire rate, which means that the damage per shot (or "alpha") is really low. Artillery has much higher alpha and lower range (but fires much more slowly, so has lower DPS), while railguns fire at about the same speed but are longer range and do somewhat less damage overall.

So... yes, if you want to fly laser ships, train Amarr, starting with the frigates. The Punisher frigate and the Coercer destroyer are both awesome laserboats.

Accidentally The Whole Frigate - For-newbies blog (currently on pause)

Liam Mirren
#7 - 2012-03-27 23:00:17 UTC
Missiles have their limitations, so do turrets. The thing is that some ships (that happen to use missiles) are very good but they don't necessarily have a good lineup of useful ships/fits from small to large launchers.

More importantly, this being a sandbox there is no endgame other than the one you define for yourself, so if you like small/fast pvp action then you're quite ok to stick to frigates (and perhaps some of the cruisers) as long as you learn to assess situations and turning them to your favour. Do note that if you want to make your isk through combat then generally you'll want to fly something bigger than a frigate, there's ofcourse people who go "lol I do lvl 4s in a frig" but that's not realistic from an isk/h point of view. There's many other ways to make isk that don't require big ships though.

Excellence is not a skill, it's an attitude.

L'ouris
Have Naught Subsidiaries
#8 - 2012-03-28 05:25:02 UTC
Tye Cullen wrote:
Pulse Lasers seem to appeal to me, but that means I should train Ammar frigates right?


Honestly some have had good luck with lasers on the merlin your already in. Its a bit cap heavy but doable.
Mike Whiite
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#9 - 2012-03-28 09:24:15 UTC
Tye Cullen wrote:
think the Merlin is the best bet for a Caldari Frigate, so I will probably use that until i can get to t2.
Thanks for helping out a noob Lol



The Best non T2 Caldari Frigate for PvP is the Hookbill and it rivels with the T2 frigates.

But it's Expensive for a frigate and it uses missiles.

As for missiles not being used in PvP the top 20 of ships with the most kills holds more missile ships than hybride gun ships.

The big problem is that only a few are good, but they are realy realy good.

Hookbill, manticore, Drake and Tengu are good PvP ships
Gorenaire
Theosophical Society
#10 - 2012-03-29 19:01:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Gorenaire
T1 frigates are good for pvp and very cheap, fly with 4/5 others people in frigates and you wil get some kills for sure. Use ships like rifters, Incursus, Punishers and kestrels , when fly in wolfpack they can take down bigger targets pretty fast.

Jut roam low sec pipes , or go directly to Ammamake, you will find people to shoot at.

Dont bother with RvB, just fly with your friends, scramble flashy people in low sec, orbit, and shoot them till you die or they die
Rnse and repeat till you know what you re doing .