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BPO price question
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Skywarden
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#1 - 2012-03-27 17:10:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Skywarden
Basically I'd just like to know how much ME and PE done on a BPO increases it's value? For example, if a t1 ship BPO has ME 30 and PE 20, how much would this increase it's value? I realize that this might be impossible to answer without knowing the ship type, but if for instance I've calculated that doing the research myself would take me over 4 months (without factoring in waiting times at stations), would this justify twice the normal price for the BPO? In my eyes it would, but I might be way off.
Kalipoli
State War Academy
Caldari State
#2 - 2012-03-27 18:05:00 UTC
Time is ISK. one plex at 480,000,000 divided by 30 days is 16,000,000 a day.

You could argue that your time spent researching is worth 16,000,000 a day. so if it takes you 10 days to research the BPO you would charge 160,000,000+base price of unresearched bpo.

The problem is that you would be charging to much and it varies depending on the bpo. you have to put a value on your time, (ie minerals are free, no they aren't they cost you 15 bucks or a plex every month.) You have to decide what to sell it for and how much your time is worth. but not so much so that you price yourself out of the market


The other thing to consider is level of research, no bpo needs to be researched to 1000me, spending the extra weeks to research it will not make you any more isk as 100me in most cases would be way more than enough

So it depends on the BPO, time needed to research said BPO to an optimal level, and value of your time invested. Research is essentially free, you have to pay for your pos or lab slots and fuel but if you are doing something other than research to fund your pos then your research can be a decent passive income. a well researched drake bpo sells for about 2x what the base bpo cost from npc, good profit for something you only have to start and wait for but ultimately like minerals their price is derived from the personal value that you put on your time
Skywarden
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#3 - 2012-03-27 18:17:06 UTC
Kalipoli wrote:
Time is ISK. one plex at 480,000,000 divided by 30 days is 16,000,000 a day.

You could argue that your time spent researching is worth 16,000,000 a day. so if it takes you 10 days to research the BPO you would charge 160,000,000+base price of unresearched bpo.

The problem is that you would be charging to much and it varies depending on the bpo. you have to put a value on your time, (ie minerals are free, no they aren't they cost you 15 bucks or a plex every month.) You have to decide what to sell it for and how much your time is worth. but not so much so that you price yourself out of the market


The other thing to consider is level of research, no bpo needs to be researched to 1000me, spending the extra weeks to research it will not make you any more isk as 100me in most cases would be way more than enough

So it depends on the BPO, time needed to research said BPO to an optimal level, and value of your time invested. Research is essentially free, you have to pay for your pos or lab slots and fuel but if you are doing something other than research to fund your pos then your research can be a decent passive income. a well researched drake bpo sells for about 2x what the base bpo cost from npc, good profit for something you only have to start and wait for but ultimately like minerals their price is derived from the personal value that you put on your time



Thank you for the reply, I appreciate it. Could you clarify what you mean by well researched though? Is my example of 30me 20pe on a ship bpo well researched, or is 100me well researched, or does this also completely depend on the bpo? I'm very new to the industrial side of eve so I really don't have a clue. :)
Riley Moore
Sentinum Research
#4 - 2012-03-27 18:24:56 UTC
I based on contracts prices and experience over time.


Large volumes of highly researched Ammo, drones, charges and ship bpo's. Biggest BPO store in EVE! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=445524#post445524
Rengerel en Distel
#5 - 2012-03-27 18:41:33 UTC
http://zofu.no-ip.de/bpo

The price is really going to depend on the bpo, rarity, and competition.

With the increase in shiptoasting, the Report timer needs to be shortened.
Shar Tegral
#6 - 2012-03-27 19:30:22 UTC
Kalipoli wrote:
You could argue that your time spent researching is worth 16,000,000 a day.
I further divide that number by 10 lab slots, 10 factory slots, and then by 3 toons. It gives you a fair idea of your own cost and that just in passive activities. What others will be willing to pay is, as everyone has said, totally depends on various factors.
Kalipoli
State War Academy
Caldari State
#7 - 2012-03-27 20:43:13 UTC
I would say an adequately researched bpo would be one where at least the ME is high enough to get you down to .1% waste as most bpo's there is no advantage to getting that down any lower. its a point of diminishing return.

there is a point where the researching of the bpo makes no real difference in the amount of materials used. bpo's that require small amounts of minerals or salvaged parts it is no point in researching to below .1% waste because past that point it does not change the amount of material needed, whereas the research level for a ship bpo might be higher because at .1% waste you are still wasting a few thousand trit per run this adds up in bulk manufactures but is not essential for non mass manufacturing as the time spent on the research outweighs the cost of mineral waste.

Sorry if that didnt make very much sense i will try to clarify if needed.

I hope that helps but as others have said there is a lot that can decide the price of your researched bpo.
malaire
#8 - 2012-03-28 08:26:56 UTC
Kalipoli wrote:
I would say an adequately researched bpo would be one where at least the ME is high enough to get you down to .1% waste as most bpo's there is no advantage to getting that down any lower. its a point of diminishing return.

From http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Researching_blueprints

ML 0 = 10% wasted
ML 1 = 5% wasted
ML 3 = 2.5% wasted
ML 10 = 0.9% wasted
ML 50 = 0.2% wasted

And ML 99 would be 0.1% wasted.

New to EVE? Don't forget to read: The Manual * The Wiki * The Career Options * and everything else
Kandreath
De Re Metallica
#9 - 2012-03-28 11:52:26 UTC
I sometimes sell researched BPC's via contract. I figure the price on the current contract prices based on "equivalent" attributes. For me the cost is how much the market will pay.

On the other hand there are some toons that handle research of BPO's as a service. So you could find one of them and ask about the cost to turn a "vanilla" into a "choc-chip".
Skywarden
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#10 - 2012-03-28 20:52:11 UTC
Thank you for all the replies. I'm still curious about one more thing though. None of you seem to mention PE at all, why is that? I mean surely you have to take it into account as well when you want to calculate isk/h? How much does PE effect the value of a BPO, and how high is it recommended to research PE in general? I've also noticed that many bpo's that are for sale have ME researched fairly high, but PE is still at 0, and this surprises me.
Shar Tegral
#11 - 2012-03-28 21:11:35 UTC
PE level is a matter of taste really. While it is true that time equals money for most people the primary cost saving measure is Materials Efficiency research. Time, well people are a bit more lax about the whole affair.

Of course it should be pointed out that PE research is most effective on small time huge volume blueprints. (I.e. Ammo) Saving 10 minutes on a battleship build is worth some isk but it is not worth saving 1 second * 100,000 units.

There's always been something of an imbalance between ME and PE.... and there always will be.
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat
Working Stiffs
#12 - 2012-03-29 17:17:49 UTC
Skywarden wrote:
Thank you for all the replies. I'm still curious about one more thing though. None of you seem to mention PE at all, why is that? I mean surely you have to take it into account as well when you want to calculate isk/h? How much does PE effect the value of a BPO, and how high is it recommended to research PE in general? I've also noticed that many bpo's that are for sale have ME researched fairly high, but PE is still at 0, and this surprises me.

If you want to increase your manufacturing capacity, you buy additional BPO.

Typically there is 25% time "waste" on a BPO. It can never be eliminated completely, but can be reduced below 0.5% pretty easily for anything other than ships.

PE research can take longer than ME research on ships.
Skywarden
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#13 - 2012-03-30 12:18:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Skywarden
Tau Cabalander wrote:

If you want to increase your manufacturing capacity, you buy additional BPO.

Typically there is 25% time "waste" on a BPO. It can never be eliminated completely, but can be reduced below 0.5% pretty easily for anything other than ships.

PE research can take longer than ME research on ships.

But could you not simply create BPC's of one well researched BPO instead of buying separate BPO's that you need to research further, or am I missing something here? I mean naturally copying takes time as well, but not necessarily more time than manufacturing, so you'd still have time to create new copies before you run out of your old ones, right? That is, if you're not talking about T2 BPO's.
Shar Tegral
#14 - 2012-03-30 12:25:16 UTC
Skywarden wrote:
But could you not simply create BPC's of one well researched BPO instead of buying separate BPO's that you need to research further, or am I missing something here? I mean naturally copying takes time as well, but not necessarily more time than manufacturing, so you'd still have time to create new copies before you run out of your old ones, right? That is, if you're not talking about T2 BPO's.

Your idea sounds more efficient but it is not in practice.

I do your suggestion with a few of my bpos because I know that I'll have down time with them but I can go through sudden bursts of demand. However if you are running a fairly non-stop manufacturing operation, it is far easier to work with multiple BPO's instead of trying to schedule around multiple BPC's.

(I probably should've pointed out Lab availability as being a major pita bottleneck.)