These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

EVE General Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

You, the community are now seen as the problem.

Author
Piatora
Bad Investments ULC
Diplomatic Incidents.
#41 - 2012-03-27 17:03:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Piatora
Kara Roideater wrote:
You will note that those people aren't laying those comments on the community because they are disgusted by the actions of those criticising the Mittani. They are viewing the community through the lens of the Mittani's actions. What you are trying to do is blame the people who are criticising the Mittani for the image The Mittani has given the game. This is poor reasoning on so many levels that it would actually be painful to recount the kind of analogies necessary to show the awfulness of what you are implying. But we can start with: It's not the war criminals in the Congo's fault that the Congo has a terrible reputation. It's the fault of those who complain and bring the actions of these people to the attention of a wider public. Of course, there is a degree of causality and, thus, causal responsibility but the idea that these are the people to blame rather than the people who commit the reprehensible acts is about as weak as they come.


Yeah, because we never have good press about Eve do we?

"Dude in game scams money worth $XXXXX"
"When Ponzi Schemes attack, how I took money from dumb people"
"CEO rips off investers"

these are the headlines that make the "media" about us. I doubt by this point something like "Dude who makes suicide threat over space pixels gets mocked" will really taint the public opinion about us any more than it already has been by 9 years of call outs relating to scams and underhanded dealings. And our complete lack of a moral compass too, forgot that one.
THE L0CK
Denying You Access
#42 - 2012-03-27 17:05:09 UTC
Azami Nevinyrall wrote:
Grumpy Owly wrote:
Xython wrote:
Saint Lazarus wrote:
I dont follow your logic, if anything, asking him to step down is the redemption. Proof that alot of people are ashamed of HIS behaviour and how we dont condone it.

Sweeping it under the rug is proof we're the vile scum people think we are.

But whatever, look at some interviews/videos of Fanfest and see how "evil" the community is.


10,000 votes suggest the community isn't ashamed of his behavior at all and wish him to continue.

You mad, bro?


Which is less than 3% by equivalent representation of the EvE community. So it in no way shows a majority view, far from it.


10,000 votes is a nice tally, the question is how many of those votes are from alts?


You mean paid accounts. 1 vote per account.

Do you smell what the Lock's cooking?

Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
#43 - 2012-03-27 17:06:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Krixtal Icefluxor
Rico Minali wrote:
This post ISN'T about Th emIttani, or what he has done. This thread is about the fact that by dragging it through public territory you have made the community look teh bad guy.



Those commenting on the EVE Community in those outside forums have had that opinion of EVE for years.

THIS incident had nothing to do with making them think bad about our community at all. It's just a reason for them to finally post about it. So no, the EVE community did nothing to make itself 'worse' in their eyes with this incident..

the mittani (can not capitalize it any longer) did the best job possible by himself.

ON FREAKING VIDEO no less.

"He has mounted his hind-legs, and blown crass vapidities through the bowel of his neck."  - Ambrose Bierce on Oscar Wilde's Lecture in San Francisco 1882

Marduk Nibiru
Chaos Delivery Systems
#44 - 2012-03-27 17:06:38 UTC
Frankly, I'm a blot on every community I get drafted into according to some wanker at one time or another.

I'd think that eventually people would catch on and stop trying to drag me into their little wars or whatever, but they never do. Then I'm the problem because I don't agree with them. Roll
Kara Roideater
#45 - 2012-03-27 17:07:02 UTC
Piatora wrote:
Kara Roideater wrote:
You will note that those people aren't laying those comments on the community because they are disgusted by the actions of those criticising the Mittani. They are viewing the community through the lens of the Mittani's actions. What you are trying to do is blame the people who are criticising the Mittani for the image The Mittani has given the game. This is poor reasoning on so many levels that it would actually be painful to recount the kind of analogies necessary to show the awfulness of what you are implying. But we can start with: It's not the war criminals in the Congo's fault that the Congo has a terrible reputation. It's the fault of those who complain and bring the actions of these people to the attention of a wider public. Of course, there is a degree of causality and, thus, causal responsibility but the idea that these are the people to blame rather than the people who commit the reprehensible acts is about as weak as they come.


Yeah, because we never have good press about Eve do we?

"Dude in game scams money worth $XXXXX"
"When Ponzi Schemes attack, how I took money from dumb people"
"CEO rips off investers"

these are the headlines that make the "media" about us. I doubt by this point something like "Dude who makes suicide threat over space pixels gets mocked" will really taint the public opinion about us any more than it already has been by 9 years of call outs relating to scams and underhanded dealings.


That may well be true but, regardless, it is clearly not the fault of those in the game who share the distaste of the wider world for such actions that such actions are perceived badly in the wider world. Whether the current issue materially changes things is another issue. According to the OP it does and it is the fault of those who disapprove of what the Mittani did.
d0uble rAinbow
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#46 - 2012-03-27 17:07:53 UTC
This has nothing to do with the victim anymore. The heartfelt apology has been made along with restitution.

Everyone else who has an ax to grind with someone they already dont like are kicking and screaming as loud as they can to achieve what they simply fail to achieve through normal methods.
Mr Kidd
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#47 - 2012-03-27 17:08:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Mr Kidd
Rico Minali wrote:
This post ISN'T about Th emIttani, or what he has done. This thread is about the fact that by dragging it through public territory you have made the community look teh bad guy. And yes, I am part of the community.

If my neighbour comes to my house and threatens to kill my wife, I dont run through the streets with banners yelling he should be removed, I go to the authorities who can remove him and tell them. Running through my community screaming there is a murderer living here simply makes the community look bad, and possibly me locked up.


So, in another situation, say priests and alter boys, the Catholic Church should never have admitted that what had occurred actually occurred. And the alter boys should have kept their mouths shut. Interesting.

Unfortunately, it's probably best that this situation is made public and that CCP is trying to preempt official investigation. We can only hope that the official, authoritative wheels never get turning on this. I would not wish that on Mitanni. I don't think he meant to be the RL butthole that he is in the game. He just failed to realize the power that he has to turn in game mandates into RL consequences.

Don't ban me, bro!

Sugar Von MurdererTits
Weaponised Vegemite
Flying Dangerous
#48 - 2012-03-27 17:08:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Sugar Von MurdererTits
Azami Nevinyrall wrote:
Grumpy Owly wrote:
Xython wrote:
Saint Lazarus wrote:
I dont follow your logic, if anything, asking him to step down is the redemption. Proof that alot of people are ashamed of HIS behaviour and how we dont condone it.

Sweeping it under the rug is proof we're the vile scum people think we are.

But whatever, look at some interviews/videos of Fanfest and see how "evil" the community is.


10,000 votes suggest the community isn't ashamed of his behavior at all and wish him to continue.

You mad, bro?


Which is less than 3% by equivalent representation of the EvE community. So it in no way shows a majority view, far from it.


10,000 votes is a nice tally, the question is how many of those votes are from alts?


'I resubbed six more accounts to vote for The Mittani. Christ, I hope he doesn't step down! '
'Noooo my votes are going to waste what the hell! '
'I agree. I'd hate to have my votes go to waste... '

I'd guess a lot of them.
Professor Alphane
Les Corsaires Diable
#49 - 2012-03-27 17:08:54 UTC
THE L0CK wrote:


plexed trial accounts. 1 vote per account.


fixed

[center]YOU MUST THINK FIRST....[/center] [center]"I sit with the broken angels clutching at straws and nursing our scars.." - Marillion [/center] [center]The wise man watches the rise and fall of fools from afar[/center]

Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
#50 - 2012-03-27 17:11:39 UTC
d0uble rAinbow wrote:
The heartfelt apology .......




Are we so sure about that ?? Rather subjective argument here.

"He has mounted his hind-legs, and blown crass vapidities through the bowel of his neck."  - Ambrose Bierce on Oscar Wilde's Lecture in San Francisco 1882

THE L0CK
Denying You Access
#51 - 2012-03-27 17:11:53 UTC
Professor Alphane wrote:
THE L0CK wrote:


plexed trial accounts. 1 vote per account.


fixed



U sound mad bro, u ok?

Do you smell what the Lock's cooking?

Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
#52 - 2012-03-27 17:12:33 UTC
Professor Alphane wrote:
THE L0CK wrote:


plexed trial accounts. 1 vote per account.


fixed



Trials can't vote.

"He has mounted his hind-legs, and blown crass vapidities through the bowel of his neck."  - Ambrose Bierce on Oscar Wilde's Lecture in San Francisco 1882

Markus Reese
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#53 - 2012-03-27 17:13:39 UTC
Xython wrote:
I don't consider this a bad thing.

I consider this to be quality control.


We don't want the stupid ******* from WOW, with their Gearscore e-peen and their "what, people are MEAN? I'mma tellin' Mommy CCP on you!!11!!" bullshit.

In short, if they think these tidbits ("he mocked someone trying the suicide card for attention? That's HORRIBAD!!!") make us a cesspool, they wouldn't last 5 minutes in EVE and it's probably better for all concerned that they pre-**** off and save everyone the trouble.



Some people do play the suicide card, but there are people that I know who play eve because it is more of a hobby, and the social aspect of highsec with good corpies does offer stress relief. Hell, at the expense of making me look bad, that is what kept me in eve. The fact that if I didn't want to combat, or whatever, I could chill with people I meet in game. Even did industry ops as something to do when we wanted to chat about the latest going ons. We all knew that eve had grief, and in a way that was exciting, we ran ops for mining during hulkageddon and make a good profit. Keeping attention and not making ourselves vulnerable.

Adapt or die, perfectly valid for eve. But the issue is what if the person is really going through bad times, seriously wants to be left alone. Eve gameplay cannot change, hulkageddon is eve, but following a person for statements or their playstyle in highsec (I have said this before) can be petitioned as harassment ToS/EULA violation. I have heard of it, example griefing in starter systems, and result is a request to cease for that reason. Many are doing as you said, the mocking is horribad. Nah, not really. That can be poor taste, just like how some alliances view smacktalk, etc.

The actual issue was a public callout to harass the person to kill himself. In jest and drunken stupor, it still is a rules violation. Made worse by live video and position of representation. As for the people are mean, I think of something I saw in help channel once. Some player whining about being suicide ganked and filed a petition with ccp. An ISD explained to the guy that was eve. CCP explained that was eve. Oh wait, that was me as a rookie, I understood eve better after, and played as the awesome carebear until I got the nullsec bug.

Griefing isn't bad, but if you do grief, pirate etc, and somebody gets hostile, tell them straight up how mechanics work. Say if they don't want to happen again, then do this.

To quote Lfod Shi

The ratting itself is PvE. Getting away with it is PvP.

Lexmana
#54 - 2012-03-27 17:14:25 UTC
Professor Alphane wrote:
THE L0CK wrote:


plexed trial accounts. 1 vote per account.


fixed

I bet you din't even vote yourself but are jealous of those who cared enough to do it. And you don't like the outcome of the election.
Bane Necran
Appono Astos
#55 - 2012-03-27 17:14:41 UTC
Rico Minali wrote:
You see, this is the problem, this thread isnt about goons or mittani's it is about us. And yet, here it comes around again, still shatpoasting about goons because, because what? Why does every thread become a place to say how bad goons are for everything?

Its obsessions and hatred of goons that has brought this about, not because of what was done.


Goons have proudly made themselves the poster boys for all the worst in this game, and the human race, for that matter. They're only not so proud of it recently, with all this drama. To hear one say they're just trying to protect us from the WoW community when they're very well established and popular there is laughable.

Goons may not be the only people who act horribly and downright psychotic to others in this game, but they're certainly the biggest group of those players. I'm sure you'd love to see all the heat taken off the goons and instead directed towards everyone, but you're not getting off the hook that easily. There is no other corp full of so many of those types of players, and until recently they were proud of being what they are, so they're the most suitable pariah for the larger issue.

"In the void is virtue, and no evil. Wisdom has existence, principle has existence, the Way has existence, spirit is nothingness." ~Miyamoto Musashi

Simi Kusoni
HelloKittyFanclub
#56 - 2012-03-27 17:14:52 UTC
Fractal Muse wrote:
You're part of the community as well OP.

So, shouldn't it be, "We, the community are now..." or are you better than the rest of the community?

Yes, he is better than some members of this community, because he isn't throwing a tantrum or using fake moral outrage to advance some petty agenda in an internet space game.

Have you seen the responses from some of those NPC corp alts concerning Mittani's speech? When I watched the video of it, I kept thinking they'd edited the youtube version and removed parts from the live stream, because there was such disparity between what the sensationalist idiots on these forums claimed and the way in which mittens spoke.

I've said much worse things, and made jokes in much poorer taste, on a regular basis. You might not like such humor, but then again I don't like people trivializing clinical depression by threatening to kill themselves over actions in an internet space ship game.

Personally, as someone who has genuinely suffered from depression in the past, I see that use of it as the lowest kind of attention seeking garbage. And good on mittens for treating it as such.

Revolution Rising wrote:
This isn't true, these guys are NOT representative of all of EVE. AND THAT IS WHY HE SHOULD STEP DOWN.

What'd CCP's stats say? 66% of people are in empire. Most of them are having FUN with other peers doing whatever it is they happen to like.

These 0.0 dudes are the worst of the worst kinds of egomaniacal sociopaths.

As we have seen.

I really wish we'd get some better representation by people that REALLY matter. Not just another con job by people whose sole purpose here is to keep up the illusion that they are decent human beings.

If he isn't representative of us, he wouldn't have been voted in. That 66% that is in empire? How many of those do you think are alts?

Now that speaks volumes about the state of the game, that the majority of null sec and low sec residents have high sec alts for making ISK because it is more profitable there. At least the Mittani was going in the right direction, and it seemed as though he may have made a very good job of tackling these issues.

Now he won't be able to, and the CSM will return to being an insignificant laughing stock.

[center]"I don't troll, I just give overly blunt responses that annoy people who are wrong but don't want to admit it. It's not my fault that people have sensitive feelings"  -MXZF[/center]

Rico Minali
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#57 - 2012-03-27 17:15:53 UTC
Mr Kidd wrote:
Rico Minali wrote:
This post ISN'T about Th emIttani, or what he has done. This thread is about the fact that by dragging it through public territory you have made the community look teh bad guy. And yes, I am part of the community.

If my neighbour comes to my house and threatens to kill my wife, I dont run through the streets with banners yelling he should be removed, I go to the authorities who can remove him and tell them. Running through my community screaming there is a murderer living here simply makes the community look bad, and possibly me locked up.


So, in another situation, say priests and alter boys, the Catholic Church should never have admitted that what had occurred actually occurred. And the alter boys should have kept their mouths shut. Interesting.

Unfortunately, it's probably best that this situation is made public and that CCP is trying to preempt official investigation. We can only hope that the official, authoritative wheels never get turning on this. I would not wish that on Mitanni. I don't think he meant to be the RL butthole that he is in the game. He just failed to realize the power that he has to turn in game mandates into RL consequences.



No, the altar boys should have told their parents, and their parents should have gone to the authoroties, because that is how it is done. Pretty much exactly how I said things should be dealt with.

Trust me, I almost know what I'm doing.

Jake Warbird
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#58 - 2012-03-27 17:16:38 UTC
Posting in a 'Dont hurt our Mittens' thread.
FloppieTheBanjoClown
Arcana Imperii Ltd.
#59 - 2012-03-27 17:16:45 UTC  |  Edited by: FloppieTheBanjoClown
There are sociopaths in every game. The difference is, most games protect the rest of the gaming community from them. WoW won't allow them to scam you, mug you, steal everything you put in the corp hangar, and defile your corpse. Eve is perfectly okay with 3/4 of those things. Some people can't cope with the fact that Eve permits some of the behavior we see in the real world every day. They want everything to fall inside their bubble of what is fair. They aren't prepared for Eve, and things like this reinforce that for them. Their comments of "see, this is why Eve sucks" are just them justifying their own inability to deal with people being people. We as a community are fine.

What Mittens did was wrong. It's completely inappropriate for anyone to encourage personal harassment of other players. It's worse that it was done by a CSM. But I gather very few people took him seriously, and most of the audience new a drunken joke when they heard it.

If CCP does anything, he should simply lose his title of Chairman to the next person down and remain on the CSM. That should be a sufficient slap to deflate his ego. (No, I'm not convinced by his apology. I've watched politics for too long.)

Founding member of the Belligerent Undesirables movement.

THE L0CK
Denying You Access
#60 - 2012-03-27 17:17:00 UTC  |  Edited by: THE L0CK
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:
Professor Alphane wrote:
THE L0CK wrote:


plexed trial accounts. 1 vote per account.


fixed



Trials can't vote.



He's tinfoiling it in claiming that goons wasted a metric buttload of plex's to convert trials to one month subscribed trials to rig 10000 votes. Not that it would cost like 115 bn isk or anything.

Do you smell what the Lock's cooking?