Ships & Modules

Basically this shows that a Leviathan with perfect support against the target still does worse than a turret titan.

I realize this is a surprise to a lot of people, but I do actually understand how turret and missile damage work I said "we're worried people will just add TPs and carry on as usual". Someone-or-other said "if target-painting made sig radius a non-issue, people would already be flying blapleviathans". My counterpoint was that missile flight time makes blapleviathans a non-starter in many (but not all, point taken about the confusion of fleet fights) situations before you even start to think about signature radius. Then we had this whole derail into "OMG Y U NO UNDERSTAND EXPLOSION VELOCITY" which was kinda pointless.

We understood your point. It's still wrong.

This isn't 2007 with sniper battleships warping in and out of a fight. The dps done by fleets nowadays makes it a matter of "get reps from logistics or die". Warping out as you take damage is not a viable tactic, and even if you do manage to get out warping back into an active fight is frequently difficult or even impossible.

CCP Greyscale, could you please comment on the idea of removing XL turrets from Titans and giving them just a higher cycling DD? You wouldn't have to rework XL turrets and this could also create more room for new capital ships in the future.

I think their point was more that you aren't aware of the methods people use min/max and abuse the limits of these respective systems. Sure you may know the forumulae involved, but being aware of the combinations of ships/fittings deployed daily to stretch these limits is another matter.

Also please read my hugeass post above. I'm a good poster don't you know.

we are concerned that you are expressing to us your fears that people will just add TPs and webs and continue blapping like normal yet are still making no indication that you arent just going to go ahead as planned.

I am concerned that you dont realize that right now everyone except PL does "lazy" titan blapping ie. without webs and TPs and to make your whole change moot they just need to make abit of effort.

if thats what you want, titans to just expend 5% more effort to completely negate your change then why do it?

There needs to be a capital ship that can 'blap' subcaps. It just can't have 30 million EHP. .

Why would I not just turn off my MWD when I see a levi shooting at me? Given TiDi there is a ton of opportunity to cycle it off before anything hits and then the damage is back to being nothing.

What about just these points? I'm p sure that's 10mins work. Maybe five if you're quick at typing.

This isn't a top down thing. We communicate with each other using out of game channels because our ~Space Guildes~ are heavily socially based, so news and ideas spread fast simply by virtue of chatter. The reason attention is being brought here is because of concern that good ideas might be overlooked. If this has the opposite effect, sorry. I will continue to post because I believe I'm doing an adequate job of expressing the relevant mechanics as clearly as I possibly can, to supplement the graphs supplied by others. All we want is civil discussion and careful balance changes.

So far, a few ideas have been put forth:

- Adjustment to the damage formula of XL turrets to take into account signature radius in its ability to hit sub capital ships.
*** This is put forth as a solution that uses mild balance with existing mechanics to bring turret Titans in line with the Leviathan, which is currently incapable of doing significant damage to sub capitals, even with theoretical support, which it isn't fielded with, because Turret Titans work so much better with sub-capitals that it's a non-issue. This is proposed as a fairly simple math fix.

- Removal of all Titan weapons save for a improved Doomsday to function as a more capable weapon to be used versus capital ships
*** This change is put forth as a more heavy handed change which accomplishes the fix of the problem by simply removing it, and using another mechanic which is currently something of a gimmick to replace the intended role of weapons on Titans. Given that all slots on a Titan after such a change would be used for tank or possible utility, and that the Doomsday would require careful changes so as to not be overpowered or underpowered as a main attack weapon (possibly give it damage/cycle times based on what a current rack of Titan guns would do? Give it a shorter time preventing jumping based on this?), this fix might require more effort, but it would be sure to give what is stated as the intended goal.

I'd be willing to suggest a 3rd solution, though it's possibly more significant as far as changes go. It would also use in game mechanics to 'fix' this issue

- Remove Titan electronic warfare immunity, and give them a high amount of innate sensor strength and warp core stabilizers
*** This change would put the fix to Titan tracking in the hands of electronic warfare ships and normal tacklers. It would enable coordinated efforts to counter Titans, as well as fixing the issue of tackling Titans in low sec. While this would remove some of the specialized role of hictors/dictors, these ships already have tremendous utility in combat in all areas (save dictors outside of 0.0), and their infinite points and bubbles would still be very useful for tackling anything.

There are plenty of options to consider which work within the current game mechanics. These are simply a few.