Ships & Modules

Then you need a better fit or a better dictor pilot. Also, show me that quote, because I've certainly not seen that anywhere. If that was the goal, they'd simply do a 100% damage reduction below 1000 and base it on base sig.
Like I said, even today good dictor pilots will survive if someone is providing warp ins for him. If you can't survive after this change despite all your new advantages, then that's your problem. Regarding the spread, yes, 50k is about right from one end of the group to the other. Even when moving large titan+SC fleets around, we rarely have more then 1 or 2 bump further then that, and that means it's few enough not to matter. With good dictor pilots and some herocats, any that does will die anyway, as we showed last sunday.

In other words...
What fit were you using?
What mods did you have running?
How did you fly the dictor?
What bonuses did you have?

Despite the fact that an Avatar has the highest possible damage applied while firing into the lowest resist, even in the absolutely worst case possible (4x domination TPs from a Huginn with Proteus bonus, full best officer fit Avatar, no CS/T3 bonuses applied to the dictor, both ships sitting perfectly still and the titan scoring a wrecking hit with every gun (happens once every 1 000 000 000 000 times) for triple damage), it will STILL only do 10817 damage against the Sabres 11355 multifrequency EHP. In other words, once every trillion times, an Avatar will almost blap a properly fit Sabre if everything that can be in his favor is.

I just ran the test:
Painted by Rapier, 0 transversal: http://tinypic.com/r/1zexeza/5
Hit by Avatar: http://tinypic.com/r/34t5x1e/5
Since guns were grouped, they all hit at the same time for just 1 log entry/volley, so as you can see, even with both ships sitting perfectly still and no bonuses, it took 8 volleys to bring the Sabre down to ~10% shield.

When it comes to stuff like this where we have a formula that calculates maximum potential damage with a certain fit, math IS reliable. The tracking is a bit more situational, but when you can handle being hit 50 times

Yes, the main body will be spread within a ~25k or so radius from the cyno, with a few going further.
Again, I'll repeat the main points:
1) That Sabre can take 50 full titan volleys while having 0 transversal and still survive, even while painted.
Therefore, even if a few titans can hit you, that's okay because you can take it.
2) Even today, good dictor pilots can tackle supers without getting killed if they don't have support.

I've flown both the Eris and the Flycatcher, and they work as it is already. If you can't survive in them, then you're doing it wrong.

Yes, their whole fleet jumped out, leaving their supers unsupported. That's exactly my point. If you get spread out too much and don't have support, you're easy to tackle and the supers in the worst positions can be picked off. If you do have support, then you have a sub-capital and capital fleet working together like they're supposed to and should be rewarded for it, and those support ships will be way better suited for dealing with the dictors anyway.

Some people here are very bad at maths... Or are they
Steave is showing numbers based on the formula used by the system and tests he made, and some still maintain that they manage to kill dictors without arguing, without explaining how they did or anything
It's either very bad argumentation or hypocrisy and lying
I'm Down, please, start by telling us how you killed these dictors, and argue, and explain ; yelling "no, it don't work, and steave never flown a titan" is none of these
Damn, you seem to don't even read what he wrote
Same for Vile rat.

Inflated sig, low transversal, multiple titans spread. Even with reduced damage, when a dictor had 5000 ehp and a titan can do even 3-5% of it's damage, that dictor is going to die in about 10 seconds mathematically. More titans = faster deaths. More titans = more chances for low transversal. I've already stated that damage reduction doesn't address the issue simply because bringing more titans counters damage reduction. They still have all of their other benefits in this scheme.

Greyscale states that double the sig has the exact same effect in the tracking formula. He's an idiot. You can still hit a target for full damage based on tracking, or you can 100% avoid the damage. Signature doesn't have that same effect. Sig has no impact on how often you hit a target at 0 speed for example. It actually has no effect on how often you hit a target at 100% trasversal either... unless, and only if you pair it with tracking.

Tracking is exclusive from sig currently. Sig is not exclusive from tracking. They're two totally different things.

Ever noticed that once a target breaks your tracking, no matter how large it is, it will never be hit. IE MWD drakes orbiting at range to break gun tracking even with 2000+ sig.

Found your problem! My Sabre has 17.6k EHP



Yes, bring enough of anything and you can kill anything else. Bring enough noob ships and you can 1-shot a titan
My Sabre can take 50 titans hitting at the same time and still survive, or 40 and not even drop into armor, more if they're not all using closest range ammo and 3 meta 14 damage mods
Staying on grid and trying to speed tank rather then going with the quick in quick out approach is hard right now because it only takes 1 single titan getting low transversal on you to get insta popped. With these changes, a proper fit and a few logis backing you up, that means that as long as there's 40 or less titans on grid, you can simply stop your ship and sit still there tanking them all, even if they''re doing countdowns and trying to alpha. If there's more then that, you still only need to prevent 40+ of them from getting low transversal on you, all at the same time while they all have you locked and a volley ready. Even if there's hundreds of titans there, you'll be fine as long as you can keep low transversal to most of them

If you're bad enough that you can't handle that, then you can increase your shield EHP by an another 29% (total EHP by 22%) by going to a AB only fit and fit a invuln on it, which means the limit for how many titans you can tank goes up to 51 without dropping into armor, or 61 without insta popping. 3 Scimis will then refill that shield completely before the next volley
So, shoot the logis to prevent it? Yeah, good luck with that. A Scimi can easily be fit to be just as fast and almost as agilie as a AB Sabre with an even smaller sig (<- that's an issue, destroyer sigs should be smaller since their tanks are not proportional to their sig, making them too vulnerable to sub caps, but that's a separate issue), better resists and more then twice the EHP

What does that mean? It means that a 6 man fleet consisting of a Sabre, 3 Scimis and a bonus Loki and Tengu with the proper fits can warp in on a 50 man titan fleet and sit perfectly still while tackling them and tanking their damage



You just showed you have no idea how the mechanics work, Tl;Dr is that Greyscale is right and sig is simply a multiplier to tracking.

There's a problem with titans that needs addressing!!1 Clearly the best solution is to take dreads, whose primary role is as an anti-capital platform, and nerf their weapons so they're not as good in that (or any other) role. Perfect.

This is pants-on-head territory, lads.

Why not make changes to, um... titans themselves?

Edit: oh wow I missed the post a few pages back about wanting to make it only apply to titans. Looks like 50 pages of posts got the issue sorted

Staeve is posting things that have been repeatedly disproven and is so embarassingly wrong even his own alliance is telling him he's an idiot.

We've conducted tests and they perfectly back up what we're saying. Staeve is deliberately fudging the numbers and using assumptions he knows will never pan out in order to keep his titan broken. There's only so many times you can correct him and have him ignore the corrections before it becomes apparent he's deliberately lying, so there's nothing left to do but call him out on the lies and remember everyone else has done the math and seen the results and also knows he's lying.

Bring as many supers as you can get a hold of and meet me on the test server. I'll bring the bonus alts I mentioned, a Sabre and 3 guys in Scimis. 20:00 eve time?

"in addition somehow i have calculated a raven's sig topping out in the 900s despite every person who can work excel coming up with 1400+, so my math is trustworthy"