Ships & Modules

how about fixing artilleris and maelstroms? ohwait they work well

and your hic bla bla hic was introduced to tackle supers in lowsec

Some offensive replies were deleted.

Please keep your discussions civil.

This.

This is the reason Raiden is as bad as it is right now.

I mean, don't get me wrong: all of these changes are good and appreciated. It's just that dictors are critically important to titan balance because of their ewar immunity: you can't be flexible and tackle them with something else (as mentioned, it is technically possible to tackle them with hics but not really practical).

why not adding the 5 scanres too again?
or is that comming with bridge fix?

greyscale goonpet...

you ever heard about launching bubble and cloak? ccp please fix we are terrible at eve

and a regular dictor couldnt be killed by a titan before nerf, IF it wasnt standing still...

I was strongly opposed to the nerf in its previous forms. I love the nerf as it is just a couple things to consider.

• cap ships can get well bellow 2000 sig reducing the damage they take from xl guns
• why keep the three target nerf it was added as locking 8 targets and waiting for people to have crap trans was an issue. That should no longer be a issue.

Yes, if you want to go up against a supercap fleet, you should bring the appropriate bonuses. If you don't, it's your own fault


Since the assumption of this thread is that cost isn't a balancing factor, cheap faction propulsion mods is a fair assumption, but like I said, I didn't even include them in the numbers, and I still don't. Faction mods, implants, boosters and the fact most titans are not fully meta 14 (best officer) fit like the ones I've used in my calculations just push the balance even further to the Dictors advantage


Tracking doesn't matter when you have to be within ~40-50k or so and keep full transversal, but it matters very much when you only have to be within ~100k and only keep a fraction of your maximum transversal.

Even today, titans won't blap well piloted dictors. I remember one fight in particular where a small group of good dictor pilots managed to keep our Titans, SCs and a few carriers there for about an hour since they had either bookmarks or cov ops/recons providing warp ins on us. They'd land, drop a bubble, burn out of it and warp before the titans could get a lock, and since our support was in Tengus and had lost all/almost all the tackle already, they were also unable to clear them of since they missiles wouldn't hit before they had already warped out again. With the damage scaling enabling them to survive getting hit so they can be repped/have more time to get out and tracking getting cut in half so they're much harder to hit anyway, the Dictor pilot would have to be extremely bad in order to not survive.

Here are some tracking examples. Hit probability is on the y-axle and percentage of maximum transversal on the x-axle, each step represent 5%
Avatar VS a Sabre using various combinations of MWD, AB and TPs at 50k: http://tinypic.com/r/34h74ad/5
Graph 1: AB on, no TPs applie
Graph 2: MWD on, no TPs applie
Graph 3: AB on, TPs applie
Graph 4: MWD on, TPs applie
As you can see from the graph, at 50k (which is the maximum spread you should expect since any further means that ships on opposite ends of the sphere would be out of rep range of each other), you only need to keep up 20% of your transversal to reduce ChanceToHit to 5% even in the worst case scenario where you're both using the MWD and is being painted. If you're either not painted or using your AB, ~12% transversal is enough, and ~3% if you're using your Ab and not being painted

That alone means you won't get killed at that range as long as you pilot properly, and that's before even taking tank, sig damage reduction and what ammo type the titan would need to use at that range into account. Since we're assuming a non-******** pilot here, he will turn off his MWD and switch to AB if he notice that he's starting to get locked by a lot of hostile caps, so he's either going to get shot at by a small number of titans without TPs applied while his MWD is running, or by a possibly large number of titans with TPs applied while his AB is running.
MWD, no TPs at 10, 25, 50 and 100k: http://tinypic.com/r/xopr39/5
Assuming ChanceToHit at 5% for 2500 damage/titan applied after sig reduction means it can take roughly 7 synchronized volleys (otherwise it'll get repped in between). That means it takes 140 titans synchronizing their volleys in order to kill a Sabre. If you allow 140 titans to lock you and you fail to maintain the tiny amount of transversal required to keep their hit chances below 5% each (3% transversal at 10k, 6% at 25k, 12% at 50k and 23% at 100k), you deserve to die, especially since you should have switched to your AB long before that happens. The numbers required go up even more since any titans that's not in optimal either suffers an additional hit chance penalty, or reduced damage if he does hit

Let's assume for a second though that the hostile fleet is the best bunch of pilots in EVE, and they can synchronise their lock times well enough that you won't even have time to turn off your MWD before you get painted and shot at by their entire fleet at once. Avatar VS painted Sabre at 10, 25, 50 and 100k: http://tinypic.com/r/z0jv8/5
You should still be able to maintain ChanceToHit at 5% or lower since that only requires 4% transversal at 10k, 10% at 25k, 20% at 50k and 40% at 100k, but only 2.25 titans need to hit to kill you (yes, that is possible due to hit quality variations and each guns hit chance being calculated separately), however you still need to fail to keep ChanceToHit at 5% or lower against 45 titans. If they manage to synchronize THAT perfectly while you fail to keep transversal, you should die, and again this doesn't even account for ammo types needed

However, both of those are situations that shouldn't even arise. You should have probers, cloakies and/or bookmarks (or failing that, a wreck or can or whatever from something that died) providing you warp ins close to the supers and then use your MWD for no more then a single cycle before switching to AB and closing the rest of the way with that.

AB, TPs applied at 10, 25, 50 and 100k: http://tinypic.com/r/2dabzag/5
With a 5% ChanceToHit for 350 damage/titan, which means he can take 50 synchronized volleys hitting. That means there would have to be 250 titans there that you've failed to keep the required transversal (3% at 10k, 6% at 25k, 12% at 50k and 23% at 100k) against. Again, this number goes up more when accounting for ammo types, and if you let that many titans get low transversal on you, you deserve to die.

Apparently we can't adjust text size on these forums, so you get your own special image. I hope it helps clear things up. Although considering you haven't read the last 50 pages I don't expect you to get this, despite the larger text size and nice friendly font.

Enjoy!
http://i.imgur.com/bnlZZ.jpg

:PAGE52SNIPA:



But the problem with your logic is that you are flat out ignoring what ccp is saying. CCP has said they DO NOT WANT TITAN GUNS HITTING SOME TARGETS. Even if the titan shot 1000 times at the target and only hit once, killing that target with the volley, that is more broken then ccp wants.

I can tell you this though, I spent most of the day testing with 12-13 titans, all bumped to about a 50km spread. No matter where the dictor was he was volleyed while target painted by someone of the group. Just because the "math" says it should be impossible, doesn't mean you account for every variation. The math on tracking says x titan shouldn't hit the target, but that doesn't mean y and z titans wont hit the target because they are at a different range or using different ammo.

Transversal means nothing on one target if when you are target painted and webbed you get alphed by another.