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Dear CCP Soundwave: RE: income adjustment
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Scatim Helicon
State War Academy
Caldari State
#81 - 2012-03-30 21:06:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Scatim Helicon
Scrapyard Bob wrote:
(throws a lit match into a room filled with powder kegs)

Why does CONCORD / empires pay bounties on rats in non-empire space? Maybe those rats need to drop tags/tokens that have to be hauled back to empire space to turn in for an ISK reward? Or other loot like the "blue" loot in w-space which NPCs will purchase for ISK.


I am cool with this, as it would create opportunities for new professions based more on player interaction than the current system (e.g. middle men buying tags from ratters in 0.0 and shipping them to empire).

Tie it in with the idea Greyscale proposed at Fanfest for allowing gankers to buy back sec status with NPC tags and things start to get interesting.

Every time you post a WiS thread, Hilmar strangles a kitten.
DarthNefarius
Minmatar Heavy Industries
#82 - 2012-03-30 21:11:12 UTC
Jessie-A Tassik wrote:
Haikato Saraki wrote:
Just do it.
10% hit to all bounty's will be an unpopular move, I get that, but consider this.
So don't wait for the waves of isk to roll in once gun-mining is fixed, just do it now. 10% will not hurt the individual pilot that much and the sooner you do "balance incomes" the sooner we'll all get over it.


Alternatively, we could switch it from ISK to raw inputs. But I see two problems with this:

1.Only Null Bears deserve access to raw inputs.

2.It doesn't punish High Sec.

So really, my idea, while it would actually work, is a non-starter from go.


1)Null bears mining it the deep risk free SOV's don't deserve these monpolies
2)Why punish HI sec? NULL seccers deserve all the spankings HI sec isfilled with the good guys

Yep non starter
An' then Chicken@little.com, he come scramblin outta the    Terminal room screaming "The system's crashing! The system's    crashing!" -Uncle RAMus, 'Tales for Cyberpsychotic Children'
Mina Sebiestar
Minmatar Inner Space Conglomerate
#83 - 2012-03-30 21:16:22 UTC
Im carebear and i no it.

You choke behind a smile a fake behind the fear

Because >>I is too hard
Adunh Slavy
#84 - 2012-03-30 21:26:26 UTC
DarthNefarius wrote:

And everyone knows the ral reason for inflation isn't Incursions butt the other bigger faucets. Balance the 2 bigger faucets before or at the same time as mine.


They all need balance of one form or another. Incursions contribute to the monetary inflation, this can't be argued against. Adding 1 ISK by trading some NPC good adds to it as well. No one activity is immune in this conversation.

Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves.  - William Pitt
Rico Minali
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#85 - 2012-03-30 21:39:35 UTC
Stella SGP wrote:
Rico Minali wrote:
As a ceo in a large nullsec (and tech owning) alliance, but not part of its high command and therefore with no access to teh tech isk, I can assume you actually arnt a nullsec player and believe alot of propoganda about nullsec and tech moons.

Tech moons produce too much isk, everyone knows this and moons should be more balanced. However in teh CFC there are auditors who will come to your alliance and check all the accounts if there is any suspicion its leaders are embezzling or missusing funds.

At my level (pvp corp ceo) I see where the isk is being used, sov costs, supers provided for corps, srf funds, capital ship assistance and a dozen other places, in FA the accounts are transparent, as I believe the rest of the cfc's to be.

A dozen tech moons will produce many billions of isk a month, however, the above costs soak up ALL that isk in a large alliance and is used (in the cfc at least) for teh benefit of everyone, right down to the frontline grunt, in fact the largest part goes to supporting him on the frontline. Remmeber those billions are being spent across many dozens of systems and many thousands of players. Unlike say the hisec incursion runner who can easily pocket 20 billion isk a month if he wants to, just for himself. The isk in alliances flows, teh isk in incursions and hisec isk farming doesnt flow, it sits in fat wallets that just get fatter.

At least now we know why you as a ceo in nullsec is stuck as only a pvp corp ceo and not a part of its high command and have no access to the tech isk...

I've highlighted the points of interest for you.


Are you as stupid as you appear? I dont need to have points in my post highlighted to me, I know what I wrote and I know why I wrote them. I dont want to be part of any alliance high command, looking after my corp is far more important to me. So, woudld you like to explain your post? Because basically it doesnt say anything.

Trust me, I almost know what I'm doing.
Frederick Sanger
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#86 - 2012-03-30 21:47:36 UTC
Mina Sebiestar wrote:
Im carebear and i no it.


Now who can argue with that.
Stella SGP
#87 - 2012-03-30 21:49:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Stella SGP
Rico Minali wrote:
Are you as stupid as you appear? I dont need to have points in my post highlighted to me, I know what I wrote and I know why I wrote them. I dont want to be part of any alliance high command, looking after my corp is far more important to me. So, woudld you like to explain your post? Because basically it doesnt say anything.

And your post brings redundent and irrelevant opinions in regards to the OP as well. Thread is about ISK faucets, not about how moons "create" ISK and how its used.

Since you know what you wrote and why you wrote them... care to explain how moons inject ISK into the economy?
Zircon Dasher
#88 - 2012-03-30 22:05:59 UTC
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
Zircon Dasher wrote:
According to Diagoras

13,865 characters got an incursion payout in Jan for a grand total of 8.9T ISK (8.1T after taxes)

Interesting, i wasn't aware there were than many
Edit: I fail at earning isk so I have to ask, how good/bad is 642mill isk/month considered?



It is roughly the same as making 32m/hour doing 1hr of PVE 5d a week

Unfortunately the 642m/mo figure assumes that the ISK is distributed equally. It isn't.

Dr. E said that the majority of the payouts go to a relatively small % of the entire incursion running community.
There was no mention about why the distribution may be this way, but it seems reasonable to assume the disparity stems from site competition.

Nerfing High-sec is never the answer. It is the question. The answer is 'YES'.
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#89 - 2012-03-30 22:28:26 UTC
Zircon Dasher wrote:
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
Zircon Dasher wrote:
According to Diagoras

13,865 characters got an incursion payout in Jan for a grand total of 8.9T ISK (8.1T after taxes)

Interesting, i wasn't aware there were than many
Edit: I fail at earning isk so I have to ask, how good/bad is 642mill isk/month considered?



It is roughly the same as making 32m/hour doing 1hr of PVE 5d a week

Unfortunately the 642m/mo figure assumes that the ISK is distributed equally. It isn't.

Dr. E said that the majority of the payouts go to a relatively small % of the entire incursion running community.
There was no mention about why the distribution may be this way, but it seems reasonable to assume the disparity stems from site competition.

Good point, I know I'm on the low side of that average, but considering fleets I'm in aren't running all Pirate BS's and I don't run that often, it's to be expected.
DarthNefarius
Minmatar Heavy Industries
#90 - 2012-03-30 22:28:47 UTC
Zircon Dasher wrote:
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
Zircon Dasher wrote:
According to Diagoras

13,865 characters got an incursion payout in Jan for a grand total of 8.9T ISK (8.1T after taxes)

Interesting, i wasn't aware there were than many
Edit: I fail at earning isk so I have to ask, how good/bad is 642mill isk/month considered?



It is roughly the same as making 32m/hour doing 1hr of PVE 5d a week

Unfortunately the 642m/mo figure assumes that the ISK is distributed equally. It isn't.

Dr. E said that the majority of the payouts go to a relatively small % of the entire incursion running community.
There was no mention about why the distribution may be this way, but it seems reasonable to assume the disparity stems from site competition.


You want to see the smallest distributions look to how few the moon goo faucet's procedes ends up!!! At least while the mining faucets end up in mostly BOT's pockets some of it goes else where not sooo with goo ( or nano ribbons for that matter )
An' then Chicken@little.com, he come scramblin outta the    Terminal room screaming "The system's crashing! The system's    crashing!" -Uncle RAMus, 'Tales for Cyberpsychotic Children'
Serene Repose
#91 - 2012-03-30 22:31:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Serene Repose
Tyberius Franklin wrote:

Since the nerfing of bounties directly affects the creation of isk, doesn't that count as an effect on money supply?

It reduces the volume at which ISK is introduced. That just slows the inevitable.

ISK is used as a point system in the game. It has a dual use. I do a mission, I get 500K points...the symbol for the points being ISK. These can then be used to transact. Take away the reward for activity in a game, take away the point of the activity. You could also look at ISK as fuel. It fuels your potential in the game. The more you have the further you can go.

You have to imagine running missions for the real reason you'd run missions, to actually protect the interests of the sovereignty for whom you mission. Altruism. Fat chance, right? However, doing that, making no ISK rewards for anything wouldn't actually take ISK out of circulation either. If so much is in the economy that inflation exists, you'd have to extract some.

Okay...no "Federal Reserve Bank" here. From whom do you extract it? Ta da! Taxation. However, you'd have to stop putting money in, while at the same time taxing it out. If this were a nation, and we were actual citizens, that might be doable...without riots.

But, this is a game. People function on the activity/rewards ethos in games. Ain't gonna happen. Unfortunately, therefore CCP is locked in place. The measures that would work, they can't employ and still keep their players.

We must accommodate the idiocracy.
Farang Lo
Doomheim
#92 - 2012-03-30 22:46:18 UTC
DarthNefarius wrote:


You want to see the smallest distributions look to how few the moon goo faucet's procedes ends up!!! At least while the mining faucets end up in mostly BOT's pockets some of it goes else where not sooo with goo ( or nano ribbons for that matter )

nanoribbons is material faucet

and isk from moon goo is used to pay for sov bill + ship replacement program, too many ppl been explaining this, you hisec bear just cant read and understand, all you see is your big fat wallet
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#93 - 2012-03-30 22:46:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Tyberius Franklin
DarthNefarius wrote:
Zircon Dasher wrote:
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
Zircon Dasher wrote:
According to Diagoras

13,865 characters got an incursion payout in Jan for a grand total of 8.9T ISK (8.1T after taxes)

Interesting, i wasn't aware there were than many
Edit: I fail at earning isk so I have to ask, how good/bad is 642mill isk/month considered?



It is roughly the same as making 32m/hour doing 1hr of PVE 5d a week

Unfortunately the 642m/mo figure assumes that the ISK is distributed equally. It isn't.

Dr. E said that the majority of the payouts go to a relatively small % of the entire incursion running community.
There was no mention about why the distribution may be this way, but it seems reasonable to assume the disparity stems from site competition.


You want to see the smallest distributions look to how few the moon goo faucet's procedes ends up!!! At least while the mining faucets end up in mostly BOT's pockets some of it goes else where not sooo with goo ( or nano ribbons for that matter )

WH salvage and moon goo are a separate discussion as they are not an isk faucet. Really I see no issues with WH's and don't have much of an oppinion of moon goo, though it seems everyone else has reached a consensus on that. Really, the only reason these items cost what they do is because of the value we place on the end products. So basically, if you don't like them getting what they do, stop buying T2/T3 ships.
Farang Lo
Doomheim
#94 - 2012-03-30 22:51:41 UTC
Tyberius Franklin wrote:

WH salvage and moon goo are a separate discussion as they are not an isk faucet. Really I see no issues with WH's and don't have much of an oppinion of moon goo, though it seems everyone else has reached a consensus on that. Really, the only reason these items cost what they do is because of the value we place on the end products. So basically, if you don't like them getting what they do, stop buying T2/T3 ships.


very good point, stop flying T3, prices will drop.

and those 2 above are material faucet for all you bears still whining
DarthNefarius
Minmatar Heavy Industries
#95 - 2012-03-30 23:16:51 UTC
Farang Lo wrote:
DarthNefarius wrote:


You want to see the smallest distributions look to how few the moon goo faucet's procedes ends up!!! At least while the mining faucets end up in mostly BOT's pockets some of it goes else where not sooo with goo ( or nano ribbons for that matter )

nanoribbons is material faucet

and isk from moon goo is used to pay for sov bill + ship replacement program, too many ppl been explaining this, you hisec bear just cant read and understand, all you see is your big fat wallet


Read again what I posted you dim wit: I didn't call either an ISK faucet t and hey are faucets that end up lining the pockets of a very very few be they mineral or catalyst faucets
An' then Chicken@little.com, he come scramblin outta the    Terminal room screaming "The system's crashing! The system's    crashing!" -Uncle RAMus, 'Tales for Cyberpsychotic Children'
DarthNefarius
Minmatar Heavy Industries
#96 - 2012-03-30 23:21:46 UTC  |  Edited by: DarthNefarius
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
DarthNefarius wrote:
Zircon Dasher wrote:
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
Zircon Dasher wrote:
According to Diagoras

13,865 characters got an incursion payout in Jan for a grand total of 8.9T ISK (8.1T after taxes)

Interesting, i wasn't aware there were than many
Edit: I fail at earning isk so I have to ask, how good/bad is 642mill isk/month considered?



It is roughly the same as making 32m/hour doing 1hr of PVE 5d a week

Unfortunately the 642m/mo figure assumes that the ISK is distributed equally. It isn't.

Dr. E said that the majority of the payouts go to a relatively small % of the entire incursion running community.
There was no mention about why the distribution may be this way, but it seems reasonable to assume the disparity stems from site competition.


You want to see the smallest distributions look to how few the moon goo faucet's procedes ends up!!! At least while the mining faucets end up in mostly BOT's pockets some of it goes else where not sooo with goo ( or nano ribbons for that matter )

WH salvage and moon goo are a separate discussion as they are not an isk faucet. Really I see no issues with WH's and don't have much of an oppinion of moon goo, though it seems everyone else has reached a consensus on that. Really, the only reason these items cost what they do is because of the value we place on the end products. So basically, if you don't like them getting what they do, stop buying T2/T3 ships.



bull crap nano ribbons and moon goo are income ( income isn'talways monetary & is taxable according to the tax man where I live ) there fore I have every right to include them here in the thread discussion of income adjustments/distributions ya jack arse
An' then Chicken@little.com, he come scramblin outta the    Terminal room screaming "The system's crashing! The system's    crashing!" -Uncle RAMus, 'Tales for Cyberpsychotic Children'
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#97 - 2012-03-30 23:26:40 UTC
DarthNefarius wrote:
Tyberius Franklin wrote:

WH salvage and moon goo are a separate discussion as they are not an isk faucet. Really I see no issues with WH's and don't have much of an oppinion of moon goo, though it seems everyone else has reached a consensus on that. Really, the only reason these items cost what they do is because of the value we place on the end products. So basically, if you don't like them getting what they do, stop buying T2/T3 ships.



bull crap nano ribbons and moon goo are income ( income isn'talways monetary & is taxable according to the tax man where I live ) can there fore I have every right to include them here in the thread discussion of income distributions ya jack arse

They aren't inflationary income as they do not spawn isk, and as such, are not subject to the discussion at hand.
Gogela
Epic Ganking Time
CODE.
#98 - 2012-03-30 23:28:56 UTC
You should read the Crimewatch thread. I think CCP Greyscale is on top of this one... and the solution they are talking about will remove a lot more than 10% from the bounties and keep everyone happy at the same time.

Signatures should be used responsibly...
Farang Lo
Doomheim
#99 - 2012-03-30 23:37:53 UTC
DarthNefarius wrote:


bull crap nano ribbons and moon goo are income ( income isn'talways monetary & is taxable according to the tax man where I live ) can there fore I have every right to include them here in the thread discussion of income distributions ya jack arse


only incursion runnners complain about wh and null income, while the whole eve complain about incursion!!!!!!
Zircon Dasher
#100 - 2012-03-30 23:42:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Zircon Dasher
Serene Repose wrote:
However, doing that, making no ISK rewards for anything wouldn't actually take ISK out of circulation either. If so much is in the economy that inflation exists, you'd have to extract some.


Umm....no. "Inflation" does not work that way.

For illustration purposes assume that the economy is perfectly responsive (no lag). All things being equal:

As ISK supply increases so does the cost for the goods basket.
If the ISK supply remains unchanged then so does the cost of the goods basket.
If the cost of the goods basket remains unchanged then there is no "inflation".


EDIT: More importantly, however, while there has been a recent inflationary trend, over the long term we have been in a deflationary enviroment. The Feb. CPI is sitting roughly where it was in 2007.

Nerfing High-sec is never the answer. It is the question. The answer is 'YES'.