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Ingame Griefing or Cyber Bullying ?

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Largo Usagi
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#21 - 2012-03-27 07:48:47 UTC
Lapine Davion wrote:
wrote:
"Cyberbullying" is when a child, preteen or teen is tormented, threatened, harassed, humiliated, embarrassed or otherwise targeted by another child, preteen or teen using the Internet, interactive and digital technologies or mobile phones. It has to have a minor on both sides, or at least have been instigated by a minor against another minor. Once adults become involved, it is plain and simple cyber-harassment or cyberstalking. Adult cyber-harassment or cyberstalking is NEVER called cyberbullying.

http://www.stopcyberbullying.org/what_is_cyberbullying_exactly.html


Well now that that is clarified why don't we start spamming all of the news groups that posted on this on how they are taking away from the real issue of cyber bullying by mislabeling this event and demand an apology to all the truly cyber bullied children in the world.
bla bla lala
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#22 - 2012-03-27 08:15:11 UTC
Xython wrote:
No, it's not Cyber Bulling. Don't be stupid.

There are plenty of idiot pubbies who think the only thing EVE is missing is less things that make EVE unique. These are the types who are getting themselves into frothy rants about "Mittani the Goon Figurehead" -- because we dared break the illusion of Highsec-as-safehaven.

If you don't like the sandbox, get the **** out and go play Earth and Beyond.


What constitutes cyber bullying in your mind?
Terminal Insanity
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#23 - 2012-03-27 08:18:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Terminal Insanity
bla bla lala wrote:
What constitutes cyber bullying in your mind?

Cyber-bullying is the result of idiots who don't know how to use the Block function.
Real life bullying is the only valid concern, and it stops being a concern after you graduate highschool, since you are then (supposed to be) mature enough to not let childish name-calling bother you

"War declarations are never officially considered griefing and are not a bannable offense, and it has been repeatedly stated by the developers that the possibility for non-consensual PvP is an intended feature." - CCP
Largo Usagi
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#24 - 2012-03-27 08:19:28 UTC
Terminal Insanity wrote:
bla bla lala wrote:
What constitutes cyber bullying in your mind?

Cyber-bullying is the result of idiots who don't know how to use the Block function.
Real life bullying is the only valid concern.


On every computer application you have the ability to close it or better yet walk away from the PC. I agree completely and cyber bullying should be a non issue, but that idiot part...
Sponge Blib
#25 - 2012-03-27 08:22:59 UTC
Isn't inducing repeatdly to public harrassement by accusing an individual considered as cyber bullying? stalking maybe?
Terminal Insanity
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#26 - 2012-03-27 08:25:22 UTC
Largo Usagi wrote:
but that idiot part...

Just look at the case of that half-nude teenage girl on Stickam flirting, calling people racist names etc. She was 'cyberbullied' as a result. And her reply? Get her dad on stickam and have him call them all 'haters' and other crap as well.

So, i stand by my idiot comment =P

"War declarations are never officially considered griefing and are not a bannable offense, and it has been repeatedly stated by the developers that the possibility for non-consensual PvP is an intended feature." - CCP
Largo Usagi
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#27 - 2012-03-27 08:30:40 UTC
Yah, gotta agree with you there because idiot removed, the block button would be applied and **** would be copasetic on the Internets but there are idiots out there. See, thinking about this now, catering to the "Cyber Bullied" is anti Darwinism if we just left it alone the problem would work itself out.
Kara Roideater
#28 - 2012-03-27 08:45:36 UTC
Lapine Davion wrote:
wrote:
"Cyberbullying" is when a child, preteen or teen is tormented, threatened, harassed, humiliated, embarrassed or otherwise targeted by another child, preteen or teen using the Internet, interactive and digital technologies or mobile phones. It has to have a minor on both sides, or at least have been instigated by a minor against another minor. Once adults become involved, it is plain and simple cyber-harassment or cyberstalking. Adult cyber-harassment or cyberstalking is NEVER called cyberbullying.

http://www.stopcyberbullying.org/what_is_cyberbullying_exactly.html


[/quote]

Good old US websites, taking their own view and then presenting it as a universal fact. Clearly, the last sentence is factually incorrect unless we assume as unspoken 'by us' added on to the end. In any case, does the terminology really matter?
Kara Roideater
#29 - 2012-03-27 08:49:17 UTC
Largo Usagi wrote:
Yah, gotta agree with you there because idiot removed, the block button would be applied and **** would be copasetic on the Internets but there are idiots out there. See, thinking about this now, catering to the "Cyber Bullied" is anti Darwinism if we just left it alone the problem would work itself out.


Yeah. Stopping genocide is also anti-Darwinian so we should also avoid doing that.

What's that you say? Naive interpretations of Darwin stopped being relevant to the human race when societies started collectively protecting their weaker members? Well I never!
Sasha Azala
Doomheim
#30 - 2012-03-27 09:16:56 UTC
Death Killer21 wrote:
Deen Wispa wrote:
So given the recent Fanfest Alliance fiasco where Mittani encourages other people to harass said player, is this considered a form of cyber bullying? It's a very sensitive topic nowadays given how many kids are cyber bullied on social networks such as Facebook and then commit suicide because of it.

And so I wonder if this recent act is considered a form cyber bullying? Or is what he did referred to as "content" ? Aka ingame griefing...something considered acceptable for CCP.

And yes, I really hate trying to compare a serious issue like RL cyber bullying to this but to Mittens (or is it Alex?) credit, he's done a masterful job of blurring RL with ingame that many us don't know anymore. He truly has mastered the art of metagamming at a level that I've never seen before.

EDIT: I for one am fascinated with how CCP handles this because given the litigious nature of todays world and the sensitivity people have with cyber bullying (or how they interpet it), CCP will be setting a tone in one form or another with their actions moving forward.


Yes it is and he should be banned for it



I don't think he should be banned for it, because it did not happen in-game. But I do think he should step down from the CSM, which I believe he said he's doing anyway.

Broadcasting an event when people are smashed is never a good idea, especially if you give them centre stage. People can say things they don't mean when drunk, but of course it does not excuse it.
Lord Grantham
Downton Endeavours
#31 - 2012-03-27 09:27:53 UTC
bla bla lala wrote:

What constitutes cyber bullying in your mind?


It's certainly not cyber bullying when the victim is a middle aged guy engaged in a voluntary lesure activity. Seriously.
Telegram Sam
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#32 - 2012-03-27 21:39:17 UTC
Largo Usagi wrote:
**** the year i started playing eve i got poped in lowsec as a newbie scrub and harassed over and over by the same group of people about how ****** at the game I was. So was that cyber bullying 6 years ago? I argue no but some one else would look at all of the banter I got in my newbie days and say yes.

This is a sandbox game, where hate and greed form and control situations and in many cases some ones entertainment is at the expense of others. Every time some one is celebrating a titan kill there is some one else upset or mad about its loss. The person in loss isn't having a good time but the people destroying his stuff where.

At an event like fanfest the people introduce themselves as their online alter ego's and I use alter ego because I highly doubt many of you enact the same behavior in game and out of game.

So here is a case,
Next time I get jumped I should claim that if the pilot blows up my ship I think I might kill myself. Now is that player on the other side of the world now responsible for what I may do, If he mails his corp and his friends a chat log showing, look at this care bear and how he tried to save his tengu, is he now at fault for any of my actions.

If anything is to be changed that won't ruin this game is a simple disclaimer in the eula stating that this is a stressful game and that you should refrain from playing if mentally unstable. Its a game that breeds distrust and power vacuums, back stabbing and cut throat politics and if you aren't in a mental capacity to handle that environment you shouldn't be playing eve online or engaging in any community that has that potential.

The scale is different. A small group of people harass you ingame. You can escape. You can go do something else somewhere else in EVE. Somebody singles you out for in public, before a large group of EVE players, though. That's different. It's not a known group harassing, it could be any freak in the whole community who logs on. Or all of them.
Magnus Orin
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#33 - 2012-03-27 21:40:40 UTC
The Eve-O forums make me want to commit suicide.

You are all guilty of cyber-bullying now.
Blatant Forum Alt
Doomheim
#34 - 2012-03-27 21:47:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Blatant Forum Alt
Out of interest, how many of the people who are posting here have actually seen the footage, or were present at the alliance panel?

Because all I saw was Mittens mocking an anonymous botter (23 accounts, W T F?!?) who cried and played the sympathy card - not actually suicidal. Some dude asked for his name, so Mittens replied casually "If you want to make this guy kill himself, his name is The Wis" (Mittens then proceeded to spell the name several times).

Anyone else notice the lack of Mittens actually ordering people to bully this guy?
Marduk Nibiru
Chaos Delivery Systems
#35 - 2012-03-27 22:17:26 UTC
Revolution Rising wrote:

This is exactly my point, the difference between a lot of these guys and "the rest of us" is they consider the game an avenue where they can inflict their predatory behaviour on others, instead of just playing the game.


I'm sorry. I don't say this often, but it deserves saying here.

This is EvE. If it's not for you...GTFO.

You don't join a game of American Football and then ***** about people inflicting their predatory nature on the Quarterback do you??

Maybe I should be crying about your inflicting of your Ovis nature on the rest of us?

Oh, but I digress
You play Sorry
I play chess
Kings pawn to E3, checkmate
Go get some percosets!
Mistress Lilu
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#36 - 2012-03-27 22:22:04 UTC
100 percent cyber bullying.

Definition for cyber bullying:
"Web definitions:
Cyberbullying "involves the use of information and communication technologies to support deliberate, repeated, and hostile behavior..."
Off with his head.
Sidus Sarmiang
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#37 - 2012-03-27 22:37:30 UTC
Actual cyber bullying tends to have a strong real life component as well. A kid gets bullied at school, goes home, and finds the same people are harassing them on facebook or whatever. Alternatively, a kid finds themselves bullied online and lacks the experience or maturity to address it properly. There's no real way to escape the experience and that's what makes it unacceptable. In game stuff like this between adults has simple solutions: block the person, exit the game, or turn off the computer. In one case there's no escape, in another case there's a very simple escape that anyone above the age of 18 should be able to make.

If I had been accused of this, I wouldn't have even apologized, but Mittani made a public apology and sent the "victim" ten billion isk. That's done nothing to drown out the furor even though The Wis has been compensated, talked to, etc.

Now why are all the people getting riled up about this? Note that none of these people even talked to The Wis to find out what happened or even if he was alright before churning this storm up. It's clearly not about the victim and it's not about what happened. It's about the fact that there's a large portion in any population for whom righteous indignation is like a drug. Right now they're screaming and frothing and nothing that can be done will stop that, even if their actions end up damaging the game.

Not much to be done about it now, but it's probably best to keep in mind what's actually going on.
Kattshiro
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#38 - 2012-03-27 22:39:07 UTC
griefing == in game.
Bullying is out of game... can't really avoid it type of harassment. A person needs to go out of their way to bully another...usually on more than one occasion.

Big difference.
Anslo
Scope Works
#39 - 2012-03-27 22:39:33 UTC
Cyber bully definitions depend on the country. There's a lot of policy development and research currently underway regarding this subject.

While Mitanni's actions were drunkenly fueled, I don't think that point matters. He was comfortable and lubed up nice enough to let his true nature slip (in my opinion anyway) and be belligerent to some miner. Who cares if he mines? That's not worth calling for his suicide. Apology or not, it was cyber bullying. Since he lives stateside, he actually could be prosecuted if the miner were to bring up the issue in a court. The way the law currently reads cyber bullying in combination with a confirmed mental history would land Mitanni in either jail or with some very hefty fines.

So while internationally cyber bullying is defined in subtle different ways, current U.S. laws clearly state that what he did (while not a felony and worthy of immediate arrest) can be a crime and a lawsuit would hold up in a court of law.

[center]-_For the Proveldtariat_/-[/center]
Sasha Azala
Doomheim
#40 - 2012-03-27 22:51:18 UTC
Kattshiro wrote:
griefing == in game.
Bullying is out of game... can't really avoid it type of harassment. A person needs to go out of their way to bully another...usually on more than one occasion.

Big difference.



Bullying can be in-game, verbal harassment, coercion but the obvious one physical assault of course can't be.

Griefing is a strange one for EVE as a lot that would normally be considered griefing is not actually griefing as the game is designed that way. Although deliberately cause annoyance and spamming could be considered griefing in EVE.