EVE General Discussion

So given the recent Fanfest Alliance fiasco where Mittani encourages other people to harass said player, is this considered a form of cyber bullying? It's a very sensitive topic nowadays given how many kids are cyber bullied on social networks such as Facebook and then commit suicide because of it.

And so I wonder if this recent act is considered a form cyber bullying? Or is what he did referred to as "content" ? Aka ingame griefing...something considered acceptable for CCP.

And yes, I really hate trying to compare a serious issue like RL cyber bullying to this but to Mittens (or is it Alex?) credit, he's done a masterful job of blurring RL with ingame that many us don't know anymore. He truly has mastered the art of metagamming at a level that I've never seen before.

EDIT: I for one am fascinated with how CCP handles this because given the litigious nature of todays world and the sensitivity people have with cyber bullying (or how they interpet it), CCP will be setting a tone in one form or another with their actions moving forward.

Do we have a internet lawyer in the house?

Not at all, I'm delighted that all this User Generated Content was created by a single off the cuff drunken comment by Mittani.

I'm going to ask him to kill a puppy next year, maybe we can get some protest songs going.

The game eve and its in game culture magnifies a natural tendency to attack the in game stereotypes.

However this is not really just an issue with eve, as it is present in all multi-player gaming .

The current game culture that we have at this time is to badger those who do not fit the accepted gaming stereotype of that genre .

Most of the time this badgering is socially acceptable, as it is mere ribbing and poking fun at each other and our flaws. All in the spirit of fun and to achieve a greater sense of camaraderie . (i.e. i suck or you suck lol)

however this can be taken to extremes and cause alienation which in turns produces a vicious circle and ends up creating outcasts and socially unacceptable classes which are used to create stereotypes . (see the blizzcon "anti-gay" fiasco)

in eve classes have been established care bears , pirates, and pvp'ers every player is classified by the games culture in to one of the 3 classes. All 3 generally disdain one another and see each others play style as detrimental to the game .

So it becomes accepted in the games cultural , that to bash one another is acceptable.

This creates prejudice and intolerance and you can see it on a day to day basis in many multi player games. Even though it is still based on good natured ribbing, it has become much uglier and more pointed , the purpose being to get a reaction from the (victim) .

In eve this reaction is referred to as "tears" and many methods have been devised to create tears amongst the classes of players.


"Mittens" while inebriated forgot he was not in game, and was participating in the games culture of provoking tears from a player belonging to one of the games "lesser" classes . (as seen from his eyes)

The perception was probably more akin to a chat channel or in game chat where one would rally the "troops" and go trounce the target .

What makes this difficult is that Mittens was at a event that was all about eve and its mechanics, so it could be argued that he actually was playing eve.

So we are left with a dilemma . Is our attitudes in game unacceptable these days ?

Have we crossed the line and become intolerant bigots who are insensitive to others who do not share our views?

I think for the majority, this is not really an issue as on a day to day to basis in the real world we mostly treat each other with respect and compassion .

I think this was an isolated event with aggravating circumstances and its not a form of cyber bullying . Just a enthusiastic player showing a total lack of self control and getting carried away by the event they were attending.

At best it can used as an example as how we all could be a bit more thoughtful in how we act, around and towards others in game and in real life.

What mittens did was bullying, plain and simple - while people might think that "oh it's part of the game"; it's not and should not be allowed. Back in the days of playing CS; there was a very strict line (if somewhat fine) between friendly banter and downright bullying - do the latter and you would be instant banned from our game servers.

These days cyber bullying has caused kids to commit suicide and as far as I know in one case lead to a trial in United Kingdom over said subject.

I truly hope that CCP will get off their asses and deal with this according to their eula; if only to indemnify themselves in case of the guy/kid actually caries out the suicide.

Should we consider hundreds of threads on this forum about Mittens and his misconduct as cyber bullying and harassment?

Ofc these dumb threads lack in the department of bullying, but they are pretty good at harassing my faith in humanity. I mean come on! People cannot be so dumb. Can they?

I personally feel the line was crossed when it came from playing the pirate to direct harassment of a player because of who they were/what they said. Eve is a game, but it is also a business. Carebear tears are part of eve, however continued following in a grief environment does nothing productive, a player who is unable in any way to enjoy playing, wont.

Following somebody in lowsec and hunting them, well that is lowsec, it is hunted regions. Driving an alliance out of null, well null is a war zone. But highsec players need that line. They help pay the bills, and going by the highsec player counts, they pay alot of ccp bills.

As nullsec, we also need the highsec players. All those jump freighter logistic runs, pos ice, etc. I am willing to bet alot of that is not done by alliances. Hundreds of battlecruisers blown up in a fight, I know it wasn't our industrial division that made mine. So yeah, grief and freighter gank, 99% of the time, player might get mad, we all do at stuff. They won't quit, or even care next day. Keep following the player, drive them out, and do that continually. Suddenly who is doing manufacture for your pvp? Now eve has a bad rep, few new players joining, and pvp slows down because now nobody is making the bread and butter of pvp anymore.

To the OP of the thread. That is bullying. Griefing is indescriminate and game mechanic. In the end, the player will be upset, but hopefully learns and better enjoys eve because of that. Myself, when a player has gotten mad over a grief, I say straight up why, and do this to avoid. Bullying is when you lol and then go out of your way to ruin the game experience, it acomplishes nothing.

**** the year i started playing eve i got poped in lowsec as a newbie scrub and harassed over and over by the same group of people about how ****** at the game I was. So was that cyber bullying 6 years ago? I argue no but some one else would look at all of the banter I got in my newbie days and say yes.

This is a sandbox game, where hate and greed form and control situations and in many cases some ones entertainment is at the expense of others. Every time some one is celebrating a titan kill there is some one else upset or mad about its loss. The person in loss isn't having a good time but the people destroying his stuff where.

At an event like fanfest the people introduce themselves as their online alter ego's and I use alter ego because I highly doubt many of you enact the same behavior in game and out of game.

So here is a case,
Next time I get jumped I should claim that if the pilot blows up my ship I think I might kill myself. Now is that player on the other side of the world now responsible for what I may do, If he mails his corp and his friends a chat log showing, look at this care bear and how he tried to save his tengu, is he now at fault for any of my actions.

If anything is to be changed that won't ruin this game is a simple disclaimer in the eula stating that this is a stressful game and that you should refrain from playing if mentally unstable. Its a game that breeds distrust and power vacuums, back stabbing and cut throat politics and if you aren't in a mental capacity to handle that environment you shouldn't be playing eve online or engaging in any community that has that potential.

If i call you a dumb ****, and leave it at that.

Its not bullying, its just an insult.

If i do it every day over and over again.

Then it becomes bullying.

We do but you probably won't like his answer.